How can you write off an xpac that literally just launched?

[Kokolums]

True. But do these same people then go continue to complain about the poor services or do they just move on and go to KFC instead?

People go thru stages. They complain loudly when they are in the stage of unhappy with the service but not ready to move on. If things do not change, they eventually move on. You see this with sports teams. A baseball team may be struggling, but as long as fans have hope and they are not eliminated from the playoffs, people will complain loudly. Once the team is eliminated from the playoffs, all interest typically dies.

[Eapoe]

Shadowlands fetaures:
5 zones
covenants (reputation hall insted of class)
thorgast

Legion:
5 zones
class order halls (class instead of garrison)
mythic +
world quests
artifacts system
new honor system
new class demon hunter

You forgot:
Shadowlands:
Conduits
Legendaries
WQs
Callings
Reps
The Maw dailies (can possibly tie to reps)
Covenant Campaign Quests
Starting on the 9th:
Normal/Heroic raids

Legion:
Legendaries

- - - Updated - - -

For me it may be time to move on to Classic. SL is my least liked expansion. Mainly because of all the new systems and new currencies. I preferred just getting gear.

You have to build renoun, and rep, and gather conduits, and collect anima, and Stigia. And work on your Legendary. Seems way more grindy than before.

Except you can only get so many per week and can complete almost all of it in a day or 2. The only exceptions are rep (which is only tied to cosmetics and specific crafting recipes), and conduits (which you only need/want a select few unless you’re a collector in which case you have an entire xpac to collect them). Hell, even rep is capped per day due to WQs.
There’s almost nothing to actually grind in the traditional sense. It’s pretty laughable when people try to say this xpac is too grind heavy.

[Lex Icon]

i don't care for the theme and the covenant stuff seem more like an annoyance than anything i'd get excited about.
for now there's nothing on offer that makes me want to check it out.

i won't write it off entirely but for now i have no intention of buying it.

[fleamarket]

When we first lost flying, we were given a flight whislte. This was supposed to be an inconvenient replacement. It wasn't perfect, but it worked.

Now we no flying, and no whistle.
Covenant tele pads are a joke.

I've run 15 random dungeons on my tank. I haven't gotten a single upgrade yet. Bosses drop 1 piece now. They used to drop 2-3.
Final bosses drop 2. They used to drop 3-4.

And worst of all. Grouping in the Maw. I hate traveling to Oribos, disbanding and then regrouping. This is almost impossible to do with pugs.

[cparle87]

I get that you are interested in that, but since its not power increase, many people (those who claim "there is nothing to do") are not interested in them.
I am part of that group myself, but I know that next week M+ opens and that will change things for a 2-3 weeks (until the raid is on farm and M+ becomes quasi obsolete again). At that point WQs (except for Renown), M+ (except 1/week) and every content that is not raiding is suddenly not relevant anymore.

Yes, I understand that if you like Pets and Mounts and Toys its different, but thats not what the argument is for people who feel that way.

What annoys me is the lie. If you go to the fridge, see it's loaded full of stuff you're not in the mood for, you don't lie and say it's empty. That's intellectually dishonest. Same thing here. Saying "there's nothing to do" is a straight up lie. If you're going to argue on the forums, be honest and say there's nothing you're interested in. Someone might actually mistake your lie for reality.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

I think Legion and BFA developed a new kind of player. The one that expects decent gear to come in huge quantities from any activity they do, that does every single world quest and enjoys endless farming for AP or grinds tons of content they are outgearing for a small chance of upgrade (hello titanforging/legion legendaries). Obviously, for this kind of player SL is not that good, since you are not rewarded for spamming content you've already outgeared. Spamming works well only for BGs I guess, since honor gear is quite nice, and some people dislike PVP.

Personally, I prefer SL design with easily achievable caps on renown and soul ash, non-random gearing from activities that matter to me (dungeons, PVP, etc) and quite nice amount of optional content for small upgrades, cosmetics, professions, alts, achievs, etc. This system actually reminds me more of pre-Wod era, when you had your badges/valor/conquest cap for weekly stuff and best gear from PVE-PVP endgame. Everything else was optional.

P.S. Why do people say there is nothing to do? I mean, you can gear up in dungeons/BGs or just run them for fun, there are tons of new pets/mounts/toys and what not, rares, treasures, upgrades for Covenant sanctum, you can farm recipes for legendaries, conduits, there are tons of new achievements, you can level an alt to see story of other covenants or try Torghast to see the powers play out on different classes. Compare this to release of, for example, Cataclysm which was considered quite ok for it's time. It had waaaay less content. If listed above is not enough what else do you want? Edlessly farm something and then feel sick when you see Wow login screen?

I mean, you do you, but I like SL's approach to progression way more than Legion or BFA.

i agree, and i hope this kind of casuals leave the game asap

[Hastis]

You forgot:
Shadowlands:
Conduits
Legendaries
WQs
Callings
Reps
The Maw dailies (can possibly tie to reps)
Covenant Campaign Quests
Starting on the 9th:
Normal/Heroic raids

Legion:
Legendaries

- - - Updated - - -



Except you can only get so many per week and can complete almost all of it in a day or 2. The only exceptions are rep (which is only tied to cosmetics and specific crafting recipes), and conduits (which you only need/want a select few unless you’re a collector in which case you have an entire xpac to collect them). Hell, even rep is capped per day due to WQs.
There’s almost nothing to actually grind in the traditional sense. It’s pretty laughable when people try to say this xpac is too grind heavy.

shadowlands did not introduced wq, callings(emmisiarys) reps raids... it was before in every exp. Im saying about NEW content not refreshed from previous expansions

[Eapoe]

shadowlands did not introduced wq, callings(emmisiarys) reps raids... it was before in every exp. Im saying about NEW content not refreshed from previous expansions

I was pointing out what each xpac has/had at launch, which is what I thought you were trying to point out.
If your point was about a new feature that was specifically introduced in a specific xpac then your post about Legion is off as well. You stated yourself Legion did not introduce WQs, so that needs to be taken away from both lists.
So, let’s revise the list per your new rules:

Shadowlands:
5 zones
Covenants
New Capitol City
New Legendaries
Torghast (rogue like system in WoW)
Renown
Conduits (maybe you can remove this since it’s similar to artifact. Your choice)
Honor as a currency
Extra effects in dungeons based on Covenant choice
Covenant Hall

Legion:
5 zones
class order halls (class instead of garrison)
mythic +
artifacts system
new honor system
new class demon hunter

[Hastis]

I was pointing out what each xpac has/had at launch, which is what I thought you were trying to point out.
If your point was about a new feature that was specifically introduced in a specific xpac then your post about Legion is off as well. You stated yourself Legion did not introduce WQs, so that needs to be taken away from both lists.
So, let’s revise the list per your new rules:

Shadowlands:
5 zones
Covenants
New Capitol City
New Legendaries
Torghast (rogue like system in WoW)
Renown
Conduits (maybe you can remove this since it’s similar to artifact. Your choice)
Honor as a currency
Extra effects in dungeons based on Covenant choice
Covenant Hall

Legion:
5 zones
class order halls (class instead of garrison)
mythic +
artifacts system
new honor system
new class demon hunter

Ok if you gonna write something like that im gonna do this same

Shadowlands:
5 zones
Covenants
New Capitol City
New Legendaries
Torghast (rogue like system in WoW)
Renown
Conduits (maybe you can remove this since it’s similar to artifact. Your choice)
Honor as a currency
Extra effects in dungeons based on Covenant choice
Covenant Hall

Legion:
5 zones
class order halls (class instead of garrison)
mythic +
artifacts system
new honor system
new class demon hunter
class campain
class mounts
new skills efects
surramar big a new zone that got superior storyline
emissiares with chest in mounst
speciales dailes to get raptors moutns
withered army training
new legendaries
Obliterum forge
more dungeons

Dont get me wrong i dont wanna say that shadowlands are bad, its fine. Legion just introduced more new things which have stayed with us to this day

[Accendor]

And, well, not everything is for everyone. I'd rather the unhappy *not* play the game. Then I don't have to listen to them whine.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, if it's not gated, then there would be people right now complaining they had everything, and were bored.

It IS gated and I still got everything and I am bored.
I did not even take time off to play, but I literally maxed out my character two days ago. There is no update available in the game right now.
Will be interesting how things change with m+ and raid available

- - - Updated - - -

I think Legion and BFA developed a new kind of player. The one that expects decent gear to come in huge quantities from any activity they do, that does every single world quest and enjoys endless farming for AP or grinds tons of content they are outgearing for a small chance of upgrade (hello titanforging/legion legendaries). Obviously, for this kind of player SL is not that good, since you are not rewarded for spamming content you've already outgeared. Spamming works well only for BGs I guess, since honor gear is quite nice, and some people dislike PVP.

Personally, I prefer SL design with easily achievable caps on renown and soul ash, non-random gearing from activities that matter to me (dungeons, PVP, etc) and quite nice amount of optional content for small upgrades, cosmetics, professions, alts, achievs, etc. This system actually reminds me more of pre-Wod era, when you had your badges/valor/conquest cap for weekly stuff and best gear from PVE-PVP endgame. Everything else was optional.

P.S. Why do people say there is nothing to do? I mean, you can gear up in dungeons/BGs or just run them for fun, there are tons of new pets/mounts/toys and what not, rares, treasures, upgrades for Covenant sanctum, you can farm recipes for legendaries, conduits, there are tons of new achievements, you can level an alt to see story of other covenants or try Torghast to see the powers play out on different classes. Compare this to release of, for example, Cataclysm which was considered quite ok for it's time. It had waaaay less content. If listed above is not enough what else do you want? Edlessly farm something and then feel sick when you see Wow login screen?

I mean, you do you, but I like SL's approach to progression way more than Legion or BFA.

Its very easy. For many people character progression is the main motivation to do content. As soon as you remove that from the reward structure, content becomes less interesting or "not worth doing", which equals "nothing to do"

Take Torghast as an example: it's a nice new feature, that's actually fun to play. For around one hour/week.

Farming Stygia and Rep in the Maw is not very original or engaging, but its something to do. For 20 Minutes/Day.

There are some fun dailies out there, but once you get your Renown quest done, they are completely optional too.

Three thing is, you can play like 3-4 hours a day and be done for the week and still be 90% optimal.

Some people like that, others hate it.

[vitor210]

Not that hard if you've played BFA from the beginning

Even thinking of comparing BfA to Shadowlands is a blasphemy. Just the intro alone for Shadowlands in the Maw were more interesting storywise than the entire BfA expansion

[Hellobolis]

it's a bit harsh to write of the _entire_ expansion this early, but if you have been playing for a while you can make a very educated guess as to how long it'll take for stuff to be addressed, and so you can definitely write of the first 2 patches depending on the issues you experience.

heck after the last 3 expansions you can just assume that'll be the case before the expansion is even announced and then if it turns out better that's a pleasant surprise.

unless a miracle happens next week, i'll be writing off this expansions major feature, torghast, until the .2 patch.

[Kithelle]

As of right now, there's nothing to do. Gating and throttling content shouldn't be a thing.

And what happens when they don't? People bull rush through everything then complain that there is nothing to do...damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[Aggrophobic]

I understand BC and WotLK widowers are passionate, I know, I started in BC.

But the xpac just launched. So with that being said, how are people writing off Shadowlands?

Like, please keep your emotions to yourself, I just need something concise and detailed.

Its been a couple weeks, isn't it a little premature to call this a "bad" xpac?


Thanks and please, lets keep this clean and respectful. I mean try.

If it starts really bad, sure you can.
If you're not having fun when the game is brand new it sure as heck won't last 2 years.

Shadowlands could have been called "Travel-lands" becuase that is litteraly all you do - No flying mounts, no ground mounts, no flight whistle. You spend more time running than actually playing the game.

[shise]

Only problem I see with it is the mandatory grind of conduits and so on. Borrowed powers are annoying and make you fall back a lot of if you have limited playtime but still want to raid.

Game should be more based on player skill and less on people with nothing else to do having an advantage. But I guess that´s how it is now.

Otherwise Shadowlands is amazing so far.

[Depakote]

And, well, not everything is for everyone. I'd rather the unhappy *not* play the game. Then I don't have to listen to them whine.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, if it's not gated, then there would be people right now complaining they had everything, and were bored.

Pretty much. The problem isn't the game. The problem is the way people play it.

- - - Updated - - -

If it starts really bad, sure you can.
If you're not having fun when the game is brand new it sure as heck won't last 2 years.

Shadowlands could have been called "Travel-lands" becuase that is litteraly all you do - No flying mounts, no ground mounts, no flight whistle. You spend more time running than actually playing the game.

If you're running then aren't you playing the game? Pretty sure lack of flying mounts doesn't keep you from playing the game. Also you can use ground mounts so i don't know what you're talking about there. Just seems you found some random things to complain about honestly.

[Aggrophobic]

Pretty much. The problem isn't the game. The problem is the way people play it.

- - - Updated - - -



If you're running then aren't you playing the game? Pretty sure lack of flying mounts doesn't keep you from playing the game. Also you can use ground mounts so i don't know what you're talking about there. Just seems you found some random things to complain about honestly.

Running to and from quests is hardly the fun part of playing in any case. Flying was fun though and you can not use ground mounts in the main endgame zone.

[oldgeezer]

Running to and from quests is hardly the fun part of playing in any case. Flying was fun though and you can not use ground mounts in the main endgame zone.

Travel in SL is very tedious, agreed. No flightwhistle because 'reasons', so I see no reason not have flying mounts available at lvl 60.

Relatedly, how's everyones guilds doing? Activity in mine is already dropping off.

[Aggrophobic]

Travel in SL is very tedious, agreed. No flightwhistle because 'reasons', so I see no reason not have flying mounts available at lvl 60.

Relatedly, how's everyones guilds doing? Activity in mine is already dropping off.

Raiders are still here but casuals seem to drop off faster than usual.

[Meowtwo]

I think what matter most is class design. Everything else can change, but the way your class plays is the lense through which you look at the game. And if that lense is a ugly, mucky discoloured thing nothing you see through it will be fun, but if its extremely clear you can enjoy what you see a lot more.

So as long as the classes/specs are fun to play they can salvage everything, it is however a lot harder to salvage a expansion if the classes/specs arent fun at all.


So for me, if your spec is fun then theres no need to write off shadowlands at all, even if you dont enjoy it atm, it will most certainly get better. However if you hate the way your class/spec works and you arent blown away by shadowlands as is - maybe it is ok to write it off for now (bar a major rework of your spec).