Investing in the stock market

[JohnBrown1917]

Don't care much about stocks, but it was very entertaining to watch a bunch of hedgefunds lose a shitton of money by trying to 'play' the stock market, then get angry over other people also doing it.

[Fencers]

My mother group texting us, "What is the stock?" is this troll nearly reaching peak levels. I love it.

[The Oblivion]

robinhood limiting GME to max 1 stock on monday. hope those fucks go bankrupt after all this LMFAO

[Zan15]

The math assumed that there is pool of investors willing to keep buying GME stocks to push the price up. Is there such a pool? That's the biggest question mark.

We do know that as the price of the stocks go up, it will require more capital to keep buying to artificially increased the price. The purchased pipeline will also get tighter. The Clearinghouses will require more and more collateral limiting the amount of orders the brokerages can process.

As for $5,000 per share. That would make GameStop the 10th most valuable company on the S&P 500. Just under Walmart, on par with J&J, P&G and Visa. More valuable than Nvidia, MC, Home Depot, Disney, Adobe, JP Morgan, etc. I think the fundamentals will catch up well before the stock get to that point.

As history proved in the past anything is possible.

Volkswagen became the most valuable stock for a single day because of a huge squeeze. Of course they started out in a better position but it was just as fucking ridiculous.

Why not GME at this point, lol.



Also "little guy ftw", $113 million profit.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...213909464.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/silver-...ke-11611966061


AMC Stock Roars Back As GameStop Frenzy Resumes; Silver Lake Sells Entire Stake On Runup

Private equity firm Silver Lake (Assets under management: 60 billion), which has been one of the biggest stakeholders in AMC Entertainment in recent years, has sold its entire position in the top movie theater chain after a dramatic runup in its stock.

In an SEC filing after the close of trading, AMC said Silver Lake sold shares at between $14 and $24 per share, many times the price where it had traded as recently as three days ago. AMC stock, which has seen a massive influx of individual investment along with GameStop, has rocketed almost 300% for the week

Silver Lake, whose media investments also include a significant stake in Endeavor, converted $600 million in AMC debt into equity and then sold the shares on the open market at a handsome profit


It will take a while to figure out which of their funds made the most money and "whom" it benefitted in each of these funds but we know who will be the primary "winners" the little guy is making thousands some a handy millions, but the real winners?
Based on this info i am not really sure that they are "hurting the elites" vs just making elites swap money around.


https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-f...stock-squeeze/


Nine Investors Instantly Make $16 Billion On GameStop Stock 'Squeeze'


Here's a game many people would like to play: How to make a billion bucks in a month. And nine investors just pulled it off with GameStop (GME) stock.

Nine investors, including large fund-running institutions like Fidelity FMR and BlackRock (BLK) plus some well-positioned individuals like Chewy (CHWY) co-founder Ryan Cohen watched the value of their GameStop holdings soar more than $1 billion. That's based on an Investor's Business Daily analysis of the most current holdings reported to S&P Global Market Intelligence. It's possible some of these investors may have boosted or cut their stakes since the rally.

Fidelity FMR is the top holder of GameStop shares. It owns 9.5 million shares, through September, or nearly 14% of shares outstanding. Adding that up and Fidelity hauled in a $3 billion gain just this year for its investors.

Similarly, BlackRock scored $2.7 billion and Vanguard $1.7 billion, as they own 12.3% and 7.6% of GameStop, respectively.

Well-Positioned Individuals
Chewy co-founder Ryan Cohen keeps finding himself in the right place at the right time. He is the single-largest individual owner of GameStop shares after a Jan. 10, 2021 transaction. He now owns 9 million shares, or nearly 13% of shares outstanding. That translates into a practically overnight gain of $2.9 billion this year. Cohen is also on GameStop's board of directors, as well as Chewy and PetSmart.

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robinhood limiting GME to max 1 stock on monday. hope those fucks go bankrupt after all this LMFAO

If they didn't they would have gone bankrupt.
They can't win either way.

Also I really am sad that people are cheering this on, for all the wrong reasons.

You realize this could mean the death of the truly "free" trades right?

Or best case scenario, when this all cools down massive restrictions will be added in baseline services so that they "warn" all users before they sign up that this can happen. It becomes normal for them to shut down trades to maximize profits.

Or worst case for the WSB crowd. Consolidation of "free" trade services into the big 3-5 "wall street" companies that can afford it even when cost jump 10x overnight. Kind of defeating the whole thing WSB wants to do.

For all the hoopla, what is happening right now can really backfire on the people its claiming to want to help.

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Don't care much about stocks, but it was very entertaining to watch a bunch of hedgefunds lose a shitton of money by trying to 'play' the stock market, then get angry over other people also doing it.

That's not why they are angry.

The irony of why they are angry is that they feel the actions taken are in violation of "manipulation" rules and regulations.
That if they tried anything like a WSB forum and discussion level of stocks with their HF buddies they would be ass raped by the SEC.
So basically they are angry cause they are calling this part of the system "unfair", not the whole thing. Isn't that a sweet sweet irony huh?


Imagine the top 5 companies with trillions in assets all created a reddit forum and one post "hey i am going to buy X".
Then the next 4 all agree "hey great move you just made, i am going to buy X too"
(no one actually told the other to buy the stock to drive it up which WSB basically is turned into. They went from talking about their trades to actually coordinating their plans)

They would cause a huge spike in the stock.

Then afterhours the 3rd biggest says "hey i think i am going to take profit at 4:01 after hours"
Then 3 say "hey great move and also dump the stock at 4:02".
1 company sits there and says "hhmmm, they are "discussing" selling. I am going to short this stock. Does not tell the other 4. The sell their stocks and at the same time short the stock.


They quickly sell their shares to people trying to buy into the latest stock craze.

All 5 take a handy billion dollars in profit each.


Stock tanks the next day on open as its reported the biggest 5 companies just dumped X.

The 1 takes a profit on his short as well the next day.

BUT BUT, they were just "discussing" what they were going to do.
No collusion "its just a forum post".
No one planned to coordinate buying, selling or shorting.


You'd basically have a WSB at a trillion/tens of trillions of dollar level, instead of million-billion dollar level.

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Well under ordinary circumstances, GME would probably be well on it's way to bankruptcy by now.

It seems we can be thankful to the meme economy that those thousands of people still have their jobs.

the stock going up has absolutely no impact on the companies financial condition.

It would be almost impossible for them to issue new shares, sell shares for equity investments or loans or any other actions. The amount of time it takes place and the required public information they would release would cause a free fall in the stock price.

They might get lucky and get more for those things then they would have before the run up, but i highly doubt these people would hold if they all of a sudden decided to issue millions of new shares.

Though some GME employees will benefit as they got stock awards. Of course we know where 98% of them went since the CFO/COO owns 580k of them. Bunches of officers own tens of thousands of shares.

Its been two weeks an no equity type entity has invested directly into the company financially from what i can tell.
They are just as fucked as they were before this all started.

Unless i missed something?

Cause Hedge Funds/Equity investors managed to do this for AMC but it does not benefit AMC really at all.

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The next real move is shaping up to be physical silver. Either PSLV or in-hand metal. Crashing this economy with no survivors

Yah i saw that.
They are going to get in over their heads if they start with the commodities market, its a whole different ballgame since you can't really get reliable data on things like shorts and positions like you can on stocks.

Also the market is several levels higher than even GME now. They are trying to manipulate something that is measured in the trillions.

didn't work out so well for several groups/individuals that have tried this over the years.

there are also a lot more regulations and enforcements after all the fuckery that occurs in the commodity markets.

Though i hope it does work out, my brother is a massive Gold, Silver, Palladium, etc whore. He is a physical owner, and not playing the market game.

It would be nice to see him pay off his house and buy another house so he can get the half dozen inlaws who often live there on and off out, LOL

[Crissi]

I read somewhere, although cant find the article now, that Gamestop creditors actually got money back from selling shares so in that way, it helped gamestop in terms of debt owed?

[Zan15]

I read somewhere, although cant find the article now, that Gamestop creditors actually got money back from selling shares so in that way, it helped gamestop in terms of debt owed?

AMC creditors did, but AMC already got the money on the Bonds and don't benefit from the sale from what I understand since they get that money up front???
Maybe the interest savings?

So for example they issued equity @4.80 a share on Wed. They don't get more money because it hit $20.00 the people who brought the equity will. AMC gets the 4.80 a share on Wed.


They "could" benefit if AMC and GME issue new stock and get it out the door before their stock prices collapse. If people are willing to accept the equity at these levels.





https://www.ft.com/content/54818d6c-...7-260e5f42f992


The Reddit army of day traders has handed gains worth hundreds of millions of dollars to two big-name creditors of struggling cinema operator AMC Entertainment, after the investment firms swapped risky debt for equity that has skyrocketed in value.

The stock price of AMC, the world’s largest cinema operator, soared 300 per cent to $19.90 on Wednesday, as individual investors drove up the price of the stock. That exceeded the trigger price on $600m of convertible bonds held by Silver Lake Group. The firm has now swapped the debt — which paid interest of 2.95 per cent — into AMC stock at a price of $13.51, according to regulatory filings.

At Wednesday’s closing value, Silver Lake’s stock holding was already worth more than $880m. “Silver Lake has made the trade of a lifetime thanks to the basement bandits,” said one credit hedge fund manager.

Earlier this month, Mudrick Capital Management also swapped AMC debt for equity. The investment firm exchanged $100m in debt for close to 14m shares, which are now worth $273m.

In addition, Mudrick lent the cinema operator a further $100m at an annual interest rate of 15 per cent. As a fee for committing to the deal in December, it also received another 8m shares, which are now worth $164m. The investor was already one of AMC’s largest shareholders.

As part of its fundraising, AMC finished issuing a further $304m of equity on Wednesday at a price of $4.80 a share.

[Rasulis]

I read somewhere, although cant find the article now, that Gamestop creditors actually got money back from selling shares so in that way, it helped gamestop in terms of debt owed?

Same case with AMC and AA.

[Crissi]

ah, it was AMC, not GME. Still, that sounds like a good thing for the companies involved lol.

[Bryntrollian]

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the stock going up has absolutely no impact on the companies financial condition.

It would be almost impossible for them to issue new shares, sell shares for equity investments or loans or any other actions. The amount of time it takes place and the required public information they would release would cause a free fall in the stock price.

They might get lucky and get more for those things then they would have before the run up, but i highly doubt these people would hold if they all of a sudden decided to issue millions of new shares.

Though some GME employees will benefit as they got stock awards. Of course we know where 98% of them went since the CFO/COO owns 580k of them. Bunches of officers own tens of thousands of shares.

Its been two weeks an no equity type entity has invested directly into the company financially from what i can tell.
They are just as fucked as they were before this all started.

Unless i missed something?

Cause Hedge Funds/Equity investors managed to do this for AMC but it does not benefit AMC really at all.

Wouldn't you say that the goal of such a coordinated short attack would be to help drive the company into bankruptcy?

[Zan15]

ah, it was AMC, not GME. Still, that sounds like a good thing for the companies involved lol.

it is but it wasn't because of what's happened in the last few weeks.

It was good for the equity investor who took a risky bet he would ever see his investment in AMC give a decent return. Instead of waiting a long time, he got it quicker then he ever thought possible.

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Wouldn't you say that the goal of such a coordinated short attack would be to help drive the company into bankruptcy?

How would a company go faster into bankruptcy because of a short?
Isn't the short mostly because the company was on its way to drive itself into bankruptcy?

Coordinated? By whom? Got details cause I am sure the SEC would love to know.
If you coordinated you mean a bunch of hedge funds doing the same thing without ever knowing the other was doing it till after they were done?


Maybe on the equity side they might not be able to raise funds at good rates/returns because the stock price is depressed, but in reality they were not going to get great terms anyway because of the horrific outlook for the company. I read somewhere one of the investments in these half dozen stocks was getting interest returns of 15%.
They are basically in junk bond status.

[Edge-]

Wouldn't you say that the goal of such a coordinated short attack would be to help drive the company into bankruptcy?

Why would shorting a company drive it to bankruptcy?

[the game]

Been following this thread and I mostly understand the Gamestop situation. One think I don't understand is why do Hedgefunds exist? They basically gamble with something which isn't theirs ? Why is short sale even allowed ?

You goto the horse track and bet on horses that aren't yours. You bet on the NFL, NBA, and you don't own the teams. People bet on alot of things. It's called gambling.

[Zan15]

Video games are worth that much.

I'm buying Monday. And so should everyone else.

Hmm this was the first premarket in a week or so that did not see the 100% jumps or even a 50% jump.

With all the other things going on at WSB including them trying to corner the almost impossible silver market I think people are starting to bail on gme maybe?

But then again...been wrong a half dozen times why not go for a baker's dozen.

Just seems the last two days of trading has not see the same action

[Fahrenheit]

Not sure if its in direct result of the GameStop stuff, if it’s tangential to it, or not related at all, but my 401k has gone down almost $40k in the past week. I mean I’m a good 25+ years from retiring, so it’s not a big deal.

[Belize]

Not sure if its in direct result of the GameStop stuff, if it’s tangential to it, or not related at all, but my 401k has gone down almost $40k in the past week. I mean I’m a good 25+ years from retiring, so it’s not a big deal.

Nah, it's more the stock market reacting to slower than anticipated Covid vaccine rollouts and new variations of the latter.

The european 600 was down 2% and Asian/African markets down about 1.6% as of last Friday. Gamestop is just the shiny object being paraded while the real causes are more mundane

[JohnBrown1917]

[QUOTE=Zan15;52984366]

You realize this could mean the death of the truly "free" trades right?

Sounds great.

Or best case scenario, when this all cools down massive restrictions will be added in baseline services so that they "warn" all users before they sign up that this can happen. It becomes normal for them to shut down trades to maximize profits.

Almost sounds like the gov can do something to prevent this.

Or worst case for the WSB crowd. Consolidation of "free" trade services into the big 3-5 "wall street" companies that can afford it even when cost jump 10x overnight. Kind of defeating the whole thing WSB wants to do.

Almost sounds like something the gov could do something about.

For all the hoopla, what is happening right now can really backfire on the people its claiming to want to help.

Shit happens if you have to live under a shitty government, I suppose.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Well under ordinary circumstances, GME would probably be well on it's way to bankruptcy by now.

It seems we can be thankful to the meme economy that those thousands of people still have their jobs.

That's not how stocks work at all. Having an inflated stock does not mean a company will no longer have any financial issues, as the available amount on the market was already sold by the company. Whether it's currently $1 or $1,000 does not affect the companies cash stores unless they do additional offerings (i.e.: diluting the stock), which they are unlikely to do as issuing more shares will cause the stock to drop even further once the market adjusts.

[Edge-]

Man, trying to keep track of all the narratives is impossible. Had a few guys adamantly telling me that Melvin totally went bankrupt on Friday, and wouldn't hear otherwise.

I mean, they lost big but like, legit, the meme-mythos seems to be more believed than reality here.

[Machismo]

As all of this goes down, I'm waiting to see how many people lose their asses as a result of all of this. I get that a couple hedge funds are going to suffer, but we will see thousands of people lose their asses. In the end, Gamestop is a company that is slowly dying, because their business model is obsolete, and they are late to the game on the online markets. Don't get me wrong, I still make a point to go to my local store, and buy from them, because I like the people who work there. But, it's clear that times are tough for the company, and more locations will close.

[Edge-]

In the end, Gamestop is a company that is slowly dying, because their business model is obsolete, and they are late to the game on the online markets.

I guess it made it ripe for the picking given that it was massively shorted and still overvalued, but this is why this has never made any sense to me to pick this stock. There's going to be a small minority of "winners" on this who bought early and are in the first group to sell. But likely the majority who bought late when the price was already going up from its original $40ish who aren't going to be a part of those early waves of sales are going to be left sitting on some penny stock they paid a whole lot of money for. All because they had "DIAMOND HANDS" and wanted to joint the righteous crusade to own the hedge funds. If you're gonna artificially boost a stock, either do it quick and get out before the bubble pops or pick a company with a functional business plan and a future that isn't a shrug of the soulder.

In the end this seems like some hedge funds will lose, as they do every year on big bets on shorts (again, TSLA short sellers say sup), and I'd guess the biggest group hurt are the retail trader followers. It's going to be redistributing a lot of money from followers to the richer folks who bought and will sell early, who will only get richer.

It's just hard even trying to track down actual information on this. The WSB narrative often seems grossly exaggerated/incorrect and in service of the "grand narrative", news sites aren't great either, so it's trying to filter through as much of the noise as possible to figure out what's actually going on.