Investing in the stock market

[Elegiac]

To conflate the 70s gold standard with crypto is ridiculous.

Not in the slightest.

Their true believers are both motivated by the desire to create a system of personal wealth independent from that of society because society is too subject to the whims of Jewish people the ruling elites.

What's crazy is that I've got a feeling our politics are virtually the same

They are not.

Whatever anti-establishment tendencies I have are incidental; crypto bugs are anti-establishment as a shibboleth.

[Feltima]

Not in the slightest.

Their true believers are both motivated by the desire to create a system of personal wealth independent from that of society because society is too subject to the whims of Jewish people the ruling elites.



They are not.

Whatever anti-establishment tendencies I have are incidental; crypto bugs are anti-establishment as a shibboleth.

Cryptocurrency isn't some monolithic group with a singular ideology. There are tons of crazies in any industry. There are definitely those folks, but I'm a far cry from anti-semitism and whatever other crazy shit you think I must align with.

I'm not fundamentally anti-establishment, I'm not even a capitalist. I just love technology.

[Edge-]

There are tons of crazies in any industry.

We know. If only they were all as delightfully entertaining as this guy. If they're not representative of the sector as a whole, they're absolutely the loudest and most visible voices.

And it really doesn't help that every week there seems to be a new crypto pump n dump scam coin. Crypto needs to be regulated like stocks already.

[Feltima]

"Every crypto is going to fail, except for the ones that I like and backed" isn't the argument you think it is.

I could find someone saying the same thing about WaifuCoin (and them being deadass serious about it) and rehashing everything you've just said.

I've yet to get an explanation on how coins themselves are an investible asset. A lot of fluff about the technology backing them, some of which fairly compelling, but a lack of counterargument as to how this underlying technology couldn't just be adapted to current fiat currencies.

We can check out the whitepaper, team, history of Corda, Xinfin, Ripple, etc. We can them compare them to WaifuCoin or whatever other shitcoin you want, and you can come to your own conclusion on whether what I'm saying makes sense. Those coins aren't Sushicoins, dog coins, or whatever. These are corporations working with governments, central banks, the international monetary fund itself. You think there's no difference between those crypto and memecoins?

- - - Updated - - -

We know. If only they were all as delightfully entertaining as this guy. If they're not representative of the sector as a whole, they're absolutely the loudest and most visible voices.

And it really doesn't help that every week there seems to be a new crypto pump n dump scam coin. Crypto needs to be regulated like stocks already.

I agree 1000% and it's coming.

[Elegiac]

Cryptocurrency isn't some monolithic group with a singular ideology.

Didn't say it was. But they are a related collection of ideologies that are all sourced in anti-establishment sentiments with questionable bases.

There are tons of crazies in any industry. There are definitely those folks, but I'm a far cry from anti-semitism and whatever other crazy shit you think I must align with.

Okay? Case studies are not generalizable, lol.

I'm not fundamentally anti-establishment

I can control the supply of money, and manipulate the markets with FIAT.

[Belize]

Also, just wanting to touch on "Follow where the 'Smart Money' is going" thing again, because it's genuinely one of my most hated expressions:

Smart Money thought AOL was the best investment of the century.

Woops.

Smart Money also thought the housing bubble was a myth.

Woops.

If you can find someone divulging their "tips" on "what the next big thing is" online, stay the fuck away.

[Feltima]

Didn't say it was. But they are a related collection of ideologies that are all sourced in anti-establishment sentiments with questionable bases.



Okay? Case studies are not generalizable, lol.

That's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

What is it that you think the FED and other central banks do?

[Elegiac]

That's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Then why do you feel the need to do so with fiat?

What is it that you think the FED and other central banks do?

Monetary policy. Again, this is a feature not a bug.

I like recessions being infrequent and short. Not sure why you don't.

[Feltima]

Also, just wanting to touch on "Follow where the 'Smart Money' is going" thing again, because it's genuinely one of my most hated expressions:

Smart Money thought AOL was the best investment of the century.

Woops.

Smart Money also thought the housing bubble was a myth.

Woops.

If you can find someone divulging their "tips" on "what the next big thing is" online, stay the fuck away.

That's not smart money, that's talking heads on X BS program convincing people to buy into whatever thing at the wrong time, so the smart money/whales can dump on them.

When CNBC and others started shilling BTC, I sold half my crypto because I knew the smart money was going to dump.

- - - Updated - - -

Then why do you feel the need to do so with fiat?



Monetary policy. Again, this is a feature not a bug.

I like recessions being infrequent and short. Not sure why you don't.

Because I accept that systems are finite, and I think we're near the end. We've almost doubled the money supply since 2020, the markets are overheating, the insane euphoria, etc. I don't like how corrupt the system has become, and it starts with making economics such a black hole. In the new financial system, corporations can't game their way out of paying taxes. The ultra rich can't just park their money in off-shore accounts, etc Know how expensive the current system is to run compared to something like XRPL? Transactions take days, and costs percentages of X transaction. How much do these transactions cost companies, governments, ordinary people? Not only from a financial perspective, but time as well. The amount of errors on transactions, etc. It's literally more advanced than what we're using. We rely on tapes. The system has been broken, for decades.


I don't like recessions either. The big sell of crypto that are ISO20022 compliant for the new system is (ideally anyway, this is all unprecedented) that you don't need to constantly move levers anymore because the new economy is more sound by design. Metaphorically speaking, cryptocurrency is no different moving from pen and paper to digital, it's just for finance.

[Elegiac]

Because I accept that systems are finite, and I think we're near the end. We've almost doubled the money supply since 2020, the markets are overheating, the insane euphoria, etc. I don't like how corrupt the system has become, and it starts with making economics such a black hole. In the new financial system, corporations can't game their way out of paying taxes. The ultra rich can't just park their money in off-shore accounts, etc K

>"Monetary policy is bad."
> Cites a lack of sensible fiscal policy as evidence.

I don't think y'all are terribly familiar with the subject matter, truth be told.

now how expensive the current system is to run compared to something like XRPL? Transactions take days, and costs percentages of X transaction. How much do these transactions cost companies, governments, ordinary people? Not only from a financial perspective, but time as well. The amount of errors on transactions, etc. It's literally more advanced than what we're using. We rely on tapes. The system has been broken, for decades.

Switching to a currency that is easier for tech bros to game wouldn't resolve the fundamental problem with the system, that being the aforementioned lack of fiscal policy.

[Feltima]

>"Monetary policy is bad."
> Cites a lack of sensible fiscal policy as evidence.

I don't think y'all are terribly familiar with the subject matter, truth be told.



Switching to a currency that is easier for tech bros to game wouldn't resolve the fundamental problem with the system, that being the aforementioned lack of fiscal policy.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...oney-supply-m1

Tell me what you think the endgame of an exponentially increasing money supply is say five or ten years out from now. I don't think monetary/fiscal policy is bad. I really don't. I don't understand why you keep insinuating otherwise. Thinking Keynesian economics are infinite is no different from a free-market capitalist thinking infinite growth is possible. Hell, both must think the same if one thinks economic systems aren't finite.


If tech bros, or anyone, can game it, then it defeats the point. That's why Ripple labs, Corda, etc has been extremely transparent, complies with, and works with regulators.

[Belize]

Because I accept that systems are finite, and I think we're near the end. We've almost doubled the money supply since 2020, the markets are overheating, the insane euphoria, etc. I don't like how corrupt the system has become, and it starts with making economics such a black hole. In the new financial system, corporations can't game their way out of paying taxes. The ultra rich can't just park their money in off-shore accounts, etc Know how expensive the current system is to run compared to something like XRPL? Transactions take days, and costs percentages of X transaction. How much do these transactions cost companies, governments, ordinary people? Not only from a financial perspective, but time as well. The amount of errors on transactions, etc. It's literally more advanced than what we're using. We rely on tapes. The system has been broken, for decades.


I don't like recessions either. The big sell of crypto that are ISO20022 compliant for the new system is (ideally anyway, this is all unprecedented) that you don't need to constantly move levers anymore because the new economy is more sound by design. Metaphorically speaking, cryptocurrency is no different moving from pen and paper to digital, it's just for finance.

I don't think you visualize the itsy bitsy little detail in your theory that if the current economic system goes tits up, so does society as a whole, and that by the time we dig ourselves out of that hole, it literally doesn't matter what coin is ISO whatever will replace 20022 in the next couple years. We're not talking a recession here. We've been through a lot of those, and the system hasn't changed. Oh sure there were some token laws made to try and help them from happening less often/less severely, but there hasn't been a major economic shift in the free world in a very long time.

For current financial institution to simply disappear would be a societal collapse on the scale of the Bronze Age Collapse, where civilization just kinda stopped for a few centuries.

You're not simply going to throw it out and replace it with a "better" system. That's absolute bollocks, and anyone that believes it is a fool at best.

[Feltima]

I don't think you visualize the itsy bitsy little detail in your theory that if the current economic system goes tits up, so does society as a whole, and that by the time we dig ourselves out of that hole, it literally doesn't matter what coin is ISO whatever will replace 20022 in the next couple years. We're not talking a recession here. We've been through a lot of those, and the system hasn't changed. Oh sure there were some token laws made to try and help them from happening less often/less severely, but there hasn't been a major economic shift in the free world in a very long time.

For current financial institution to simply disappear would be a societal collapse on the scale of the Bronze Age Collapse, where civilization just kinda stopped for a few centuries.

You're not simply going to throw it out and replace it with a "better" system. That's absolute bollocks, and anyone that believes it is a fool at best.

No, we're going to have a great reset as the IMF and companies like Ripple are working together to transition things as seamlessly as possible like to call it. There is no scenario in which cryptocurrency rises organically from the ashes of the old and ushers in some libertarian utopia.

[Elegiac]

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...oney-supply-m1

Tell me what you think the endgame of an exponentially increasing money supply is say five or ten years out from now.

A function of a lack of fiscal policy that crypto does not address.

If tech bros, or anyone, can game it, then it defeats the point. That's why Ripple labs, Corda, etc has been extremely transparent, complies with, and works with regulators.

Regulators which are increasingly subject to the whims of said tech bros as a result of the systemic failures that are the cause of your complaints?



- - - Updated - - -

No, we're going to have a great reset as the IMF

Imagine bitching about monetary policy but then viewing the IMF as a remotely good thing.

Fucking lol.

[Feltima]

A function of a lack of fiscal policy that crypto does not address.



Regulators which are increasingly subject to the whims of said tech bros as a result of the systemic failures that are the cause of your complaints?

How do you know it doesn't? You've been completely dismissive of the technology, conflating it with the worst stereotypes of Bitcoin. You didn't even know the difference between PoW and PoC. I linked a document from the IMF, the people who have been the arbiters of Keynesian economics. I've been nothing but respectful and intellectually honest with you despite that. Why can't we have some mutual respect?

I'm not saying Keynes was wrong, but I do think the economy has evolved and changed dramatically since the late 19th/early 20th century.

[Elegiac]

How do you know it doesn't?

Because nothing about switching to a different form of currency would address the lack of taxes, the lack of banking regulations like Glass-Steagall, the lack of social and infrastructural spending, the lack of enforcement of existing financial regulations, et cetera.

It would have as much impact on the fundamental problems of our financial system (i.e. corruption, tax avoision, and the like) as changing the symbol for a dollar from $ to a dickbutt.

[Belize]

No, we're going to have a great reset as the IMF and companies like Ripple are working together to transition things as seamlessly as possible like to call it. There is no scenario in which cryptocurrency rises organically from the ashes of the old and ushers in some libertarian utopia.

Then what is there to invest into? Do you think that when governments adopt whatever cryptocurrency technology wins out, they'll cut you a check for backing that company?

No, of course not, the U.S. Treasury, and other Gov organizations will just use your tax dollars to get whatever they need, and that'll be the end of that. That company won't be maintaining the system, they'll have a check cut to them for their codebase, and then the Gov will move on with their own branch of development on that system.

Or maybe the scenario is where banks move to blockchain (as a simple example). Same thing will happen, except this time around, they might just buy that company outright. Nowehere in this process does parking money in a crypto actually does a whole lot, because that crypto isn't replacing the standing fiat system.

You have too much emotion invested in this and aren't thinking things through too too well. There are too many holes in your thinking process.

[Feltima]

Because nothing about switching to a different form of currency would address the lack of taxes, the lack of banking regulations like Glass-Steagall, the lack of social and infrastructural spending, the lack of enforcement of existing financial regulations, et cetera.

It would have as much impact as changing the symbol for a dollar from $ to a dickbutt.

It would actually do wonders for taxation enforcement. It would also make it really, really easy to make it transparent what politicians support to the average citizen. All it would take is an app that tracks the transactions X politician has, effectively eliminating dark money, making it much easier to get those who obfuscate and mislead the electorate, enabling us to address the lack of proper taxation.

Because I've no reason to think making it easier for people to sequester finances from a central source would improve the problem of wealth inequality.

You'd never a reason to because you've already dismissed it as another accursed instrument that the ultra rich will use to further entrench their power. What I think is great about decentralization is that it's objective. The central source doesn't mean government. It also includes the ultra rich, the corporations, the banks, etc. A more decentralized market and economy means those entities have less power to exert because it's been more decentralized. This would empower not only governments, but the electorate iself because now that they are more informed, and able to easily track lobbying and dark money. With the right regulation and cooperation of companies like Ripple, the same central entites that we expect to uphold the will of the people, they're already building this more decentralized system.

- - - Updated - - -

Then what is there to invest into? Do you think that when governments adopt whatever cryptocurrency technology wins out, they'll cut you a check for backing that company?

No, of course not, the U.S. Treasury, and other Gov organizations will just use your tax dollars to get whatever they need, and that'll be the end of that. That company won't be maintaining the system, they'll have a check cut to them for their codebase, and then the Gov will move on with their own branch of development on that system.

Or maybe the scenario is where banks move to blockchain (as a simple example). Same thing will happen, except this time around, they might just buy that company outright. Nowehere in this process does parking money in a crypto actually does a whole lot, because that crypto isn't replacing the standing fiat system.

You have too much emotion invested in this and aren't thinking things through too too well. There are too many holes in your thinking process.

No, read the document, from the international monetary fund, that I posted. It explains all of that. There will be a basket of global reserve currencies (XRP, XDC, XLM, others) that work in tandem with CBDCs. No government is going to adopt a crypto itself as a currency. They may work together on the creation of that CBDC though, like the digital dollar project, fincen, and Ripple already do.

I don't have too much emotion invested. I'm arguing the case for this stuff from an informed stance. I've been following this stuff for years. No one in this thread with the exception of one or two people even understand that there are different types of cryptocurrency technologies(DLT is extremely different from Blockchain).

[Belize]

No, read the document, from the international monetary fund, that I posted. It explains all of that. There will be a basket of global reserve currencies (XRP, XDC, XLM, others) that work in tandem with CBDCs. No government is going to adopt a crypto itself as a currency. They make work together on the creation of that CBDC though, like the digital dollar project, fincen, and Ripple already do.

I never said governments would adopt cryptos, re-read what I said, I specifically mentioned they wouldn't.

You believe (or you've been sold) the idea that governments would simply contract out their financial transactions/money policies to 3rd party currencies. Let me shatter your world, and tell you that isn't a thing that's happening.

Governments will take those technologies and integrate them into their new method of doing thing, and then go off their merry ways. Not one single government will be pulling from "a basket of global currencies" that's absolute nonsense.

[Feltima]

I never said governments would adopt cryptos, re-read what I said, I specifically mentioned they wouldn't.

You believe (or you've been sold) the idea that governments would simply contract out their financial transactions/money policies to 3rd party currencies. Let me shatter your world, and tell you that isn't a thing that's happening.

Governments will take those technologies and integrate them into their new method of doing thing, and then go off their merry ways. Not one single government will be pulling from "a basket of global currencies" that's absolute nonsense.

That's the point of countries developing their own central bank digital currencies. In order for them to be interoperable with each other, for the global economy, they have to be able to trade into third part assets, that are tradable back into whichever country's respective CBDC. The point of this system is to create a level playing field that everyone agrees on. No country is going to do that if they can't control their digital yuans, dollars, etc.