(Unholy) 15% Mastery Nerf

[Thalrend]

Again with the 10%. I posted logs above. You're talking out of your ass. And the numbers are kinda spouted randomly as the impact of the nerf will depend on the amount of mastery equipped.

Oh no, you aren't the top dps anymore by a large margin because of a nerf that even WORLD FIRST guilds expected and said it was not so harsh on unholy? Oh the horror, what will you ever do! Totally they didn't used nearly pure unholy dks as their melee because its not the best melee for raids or something! Golly gee, you guys also don't have the best burst in the game with army of dead and one of the best defensive raid wide spell with AMZ. You poor, poor things.

Amount of gall to complain as a unholy dk for well deserved fucking nerfs is staggering.

[ellieg]

Oh no, you aren't the top dps anymore by a large margin because of a nerf that even WORLD FIRST guilds expected and said it was not so harsh on unholy? Oh the horror, what will you ever do! Totally they didn't used nearly pure unholy dks as their melee because its not the best melee for raids or something! Golly gee, you guys also don't have the best burst in the game with army of dead and one of the best defensive raid wide spell with AMZ. You poor, poor things.

Amount of gall to complain as a unholy dk for well deserved fucking nerfs is staggering.

Lol its ok mr warlock. If you settle down im sure you'll get invited eventually.

[Thalrend]

Lol its ok mr warlock. If you settle down im sure you'll get invited eventually.

Care to answer any point I make without thinking you are bullshitting yourself?

Was the dk is the best melee in raids before the nerfs and every world first race guild was stacking them? Yes.

Did they fully expected a nerf? Yes.

Did they used them after the nerf anyway because it was still fucking strong as shit? Yes!

Is is unholy dk is bottom tier or even mid tier when it comes to utility, defensives and damage in raid? No.

Did nerfs did anything but toning down your class from absurdity to a fucking good class? No.

Why do you guys complaining? Like seriously. You guys are good in m plus, you guys are good in raids. You guys have one of the best raid wide def cd, got grip (which is not very usefull this raid but when it is usefull its bloody fucking amazing), very high damage and insane burst due to army. The nerfs did nothing major to your class apart from tuning it where it should to begin with. Everybody and their grandmother was expecting big nerfs, and the nerf were around %5-6 at the worst day. Get over it.

Only real complaint you guys can make is your damage is balanced around army, which is fair, I also hate my damage tied to very long cds. At least it makes you a very good target for PI, so its not that bad also in that department.

Also for your snappy comment, I am done with my m+pluses, do you want a boost in your rio? Doing that shit on my guardian now. By complaining about how "weak" unholy dks are, I can defFo see you can use one

[Lefrog]

Was the dk is the best melee in raids before the nerfs and every world first race guild was stacking them? Yes.

So as long as a class is OP day 1, you can never bring up issues?

Did they fully expected a nerf? Yes.

Yes, but not to overall scaling that will remain for the entire xpac

Did they used them after the nerf anyway because it was still fucking strong as shit? Yes!

So just because a class is still fine day 2, you can never bring up issues?

Is is unholy dk is bottom tier or even mid tier when it comes to utility, defensives and damage in raid? No.

Current logs are showing them trending downwards..cause for concern. I would rather be proactive and prevent a possible issue than wait for it to be an issue before trying to fix it.

Did nerfs did anything but toning down your class from absurdity to a fucking good class? No.

Yes, it messed with all shadow dmg and pet scaling for gear levels we can't even imagine yet.

[Thalrend]

So as long as a class is OP day 1, you can never bring up issues?


Yes, but not to overall scaling that will remain for the entire xpac


So just because a class is still fine day 2, you can never bring up issues?


Current logs are showing them trending downwards..cause for concern. I would rather be proactive and prevent a possible issue than wait for it to be an issue before trying to fix it.


Yes, it messed with all shadow dmg and pet scaling for gear levels we can't even imagine yet.

So you guys are complaining for the future? Could there be a better way of nerfing the unholy overall? Yes there could be. But unholy is in a very good position at the moment, both in raids and m pluses. They were still stacking unholy in week 2 of world first race, and their gear level were around 220 i lvl. Most guilds are in the same I lvl at the very moment, I just don't see unholy dks are struggling to find raiding spots when their competition as melee is very weak in general, compared to them that is.

Can that change in next pacth, yes, but I don't know what you guys expect from this thread? You guys want the nerf to be removed? That is not going to happen, at least not in this pacth. If you played this game more than a year, you know this.

Plus, not to be a dick or anything, but what makes you think that blizz will buff or change anything from your class is still very strong? There are specs like survival/fury/demo/destro/assasin at the very moment and they are even reluctant to buff them properly, insisting that they remain insignificant. Amount of balancing change this tier was horrendous to start with.

[Lefrog]

So you guys are complaining for the future? Could there be a better way of nerfing the unholy overall? Yes there could be. But unholy is in a very good position at the moment, both in raids and m pluses. They were still stacking unholy in week 2 of world first race, and their gear level were around 220 i lvl. Most guilds are in the same I lvl at the very moment, I just don't see unholy dks are struggling to find raiding spots when their competition as melee is very weak in general, compared to them that is.

Can that change in next pacth, yes, but I don't know what you guys expect from this thread? You guys want the nerf to be removed? That is not going to happen, at least not in this pacth. If you played this game more than a year, you know this.

Plus, not to be a dick or anything, but what makes you think that blizz will buff or change anything from your class is still very strong? There are specs like survival/fury/demo/destro/assasin at the very moment and they are even reluctant to buff them properly, insisting that they remain insignificant. Amount of balancing change this tier was horrendous to start with.

Yes that's why you don't see the NRA or PETA call it quits. Advocating and lobbying for what you are passionate about keeps it from moving backwards. Just because you're on top at a specific marker in time, doesn't mean you should no longer have open discussions.

It would be silly to quit advocating because something you have no interest in like survival needs help too, just as it would be a silly argument to ask survival hunters to give up talking about it because they have MM.

I urge all players to advocate the class and game aspects they love and recommend discussions with fellow advocates to broaden your understanding of the issues.

Edit: coming in here saying we shouldn't be discussing this or that we should be discussing some other class doesn't really do anything.

[ellieg]

Care to answer any point I make without thinking you are bullshitting yourself?

Was the dk is the best melee in raids before the nerfs and every world first race guild was stacking them? Yes.

Did they fully expected a nerf? Yes.

Did they used them after the nerf anyway because it was still fucking strong as shit? Yes!

Is is unholy dk is bottom tier or even mid tier when it comes to utility, defensives and damage in raid? No.

Did nerfs did anything but toning down your class from absurdity to a fucking good class? No.

Why do you guys complaining? Like seriously. You guys are good in m plus, you guys are good in raids. You guys have one of the best raid wide def cd, got grip (which is not very usefull this raid but when it is usefull its bloody fucking amazing), very high damage and insane burst due to army. The nerfs did nothing major to your class apart from tuning it where it should to begin with. Everybody and their grandmother was expecting big nerfs, and the nerf were around %5-6 at the worst day. Get over it.

Only real complaint you guys can make is your damage is balanced around army, which is fair, I also hate my damage tied to very long cds. At least it makes you a very good target for PI, so its not that bad also in that department.

Also for your snappy comment, I am done with my m+pluses, do you want a boost in your rio? Doing that shit on my guardian now. By complaining about how "weak" unholy dks are, I can defFo see you can use one

Lol I have never complained abt unholy dks, nor do I play one. I just find your attitude funny. Coming into another classes forum to complain about complainers. Was just offering you some advice to chill out cause you clearly need to. Its just a game

[Rinaul]

I want to comment but I can clearly see this has become a 2 person hissy fit thread.

[Galathir]

Oh no, you aren't the top dps anymore by a large margin because of a nerf that even WORLD FIRST guilds expected and said it was not so harsh on unholy? Oh the horror, what will you ever do! Totally they didn't used nearly pure unholy dks as their melee because its not the best melee for raids or something! Golly gee, you guys also don't have the best burst in the game with army of dead and one of the best defensive raid wide spell with AMZ. You poor, poor things.

Amount of gall to complain as a unholy dk for well deserved fucking nerfs is staggering.

Under which rock have you been hibernating for the month since I made that post?

First: We aren't the best melee anymore. WW Monks and Ferals are higher. Unholy is only 8th place currently (according to Warcraftlogs, Castle Nathria Mythic, 95th %). Which is about what we feared/expected. Falling off as usual as gear improves.
Second: It's arguable if Army is the best burst cd and in the game and even if, so what? In compensation our damage drops sharply when we don't have any cooldowns available.

P.s. And since you hadn't objected to what ellieg said, I take it you actually play a warlock? The class with the current top 2 specc? The hypocrisy would be incredible.

[ellieg]

Under which rock have you been hibernating for the month since I made that post?

First: We aren't the best melee anymore. WW Monks and Ferals are higher. Unholy is only 8th place currently (according to Warcraftlogs, Castle Nathria Mythic, 95th %). Which is about what we feared/expected. Falling off as usual as gear improves.
Second: It's arguable if Army is the best burst cd and in the game and even if, so what? In compensation our damage drops sharply when we don't have any cooldowns available.

P.s. And since you hadn't objected to what ellieg said, I take it you actually play a warlock? The class with the current top 2 specc? The hypocrisy would be incredible.

He is a lock. Started a big whine thread about how he dsnt get invited instantly to m+15 because he's a lock. Lol no one gets invited instantly to mythics as a dps.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

He is a lock. Started a big whine thread about how he dsnt get invited instantly to m+15 because he's a lock. Lol no one gets invited instantly to mythics as a dps.

Anecdotal, but I've seen a large % increase in me being invited to "high" keys as DPS (high keys as in 13's to 16's) after breaking 1.1k Raider.IO... so /shrug


And this is as Unholy.


Also, I do rarely see Warlocks in keys anymore.

[Bigcountry11782]

This should be reverted. i keep seeing us fall in dps ranking every week. i watch specs like boomkin,mage and lock and now even marksman just walk all over us. Its depressing lol

[msdos]

I don't see a world where you can tune raids anymore without every single ranged spec just being number 1, starting with the one that happens to be the highest tuned.

Melee = has to be next to target = bad dps
Ranged = doesn't have to be close to target = good dps

It's that simple and other than just giving all melee a teleport, I don't see how you stop the ranged power creep. You either need to go back to spells being cast, completely gut ranged mobility or stop designing fights like "move here, okay now move, okay move back, okay now move back again", it's brain dead and just moving around randomly for the sake of some kind of depth.

"Run in circles for the entire fight while dpsing the boss, if you break the circle you get stunned for 15 seconds"
"If you play a melee for this boss, you deal 50% less damage and your uptime goes down, that's just the fight, heehe, deal with it kid"
Dead game.

[StraiyEU]

Death Knights are the new Paladins.. getting nerfed as much as possible.. i hate this so much.. im not a pveer but a pvper... if the nerf is necessary for pve ok.. but it also gets fucked in pvp.. my mainclass is getting fucked so hard... holy moly... Dont tell me to play frost.. Frost is the most boring shit ive ever seen in a game

[Lucrece]

Just delete army of the dead or merge some of its function into an expanded apocalypse.

It's not fun being balanced around a 6-7 min cd that makes up top 2 of my total damage, it's absurd and demoralizing in M+ particularly because if you wipe in a boss pull after having used it you are completely crippled in DPS by the next pull.

It boggles the mind that a class with zero mobility, SUSTAINED pseudo-burst based output with poor target switching is lagging behind classes with actual burst, actual mobility, and who can cleave far better.

The savage nerf to our plague damage down from BfA has even made our AoE mediocre outside really large pulls, which we can't afford anyways due to the state of tanks this expansion.

AMZ simply isn't worth this handicap.

And hating at locks is so retarded. How can you complain about an immobile caster with questionable utility in M+ and dreadful aoe while MM hunters, fire mages, balance druids, and windwalkers exist?

Obviously dot based specs should have the highest sustained damage, which is why affliction, demonology, unholy, feral, and shadow should be sitting at the top of the meters.

[Kaver]

Obviously dot based specs should have the highest sustained damage, which is why affliction, demonology, unholy, feral, and shadow should be sitting at the top of the meters.

Don't forget Assa

I agree with you. However, I think one of the tradeoffs for sustained dot spec should be that they have low burst.

[Lucrece]

Don't forget Assa

I agree with you. However, I think one of the tradeoffs for sustained dot spec should be that they have low burst.

Assassination def has ramp up compared to the other rogue specs, but it's also bursty by rogue standards on a class with the inimitable shroud of concealment and the OP as hell Cloak of Shadows and Cheat Death, so I'm fine with them lower in the totem pole given how absurdly good their utility is.

Of all the specs I mentioned, all but feral definitely lack snap burst.

[Raugnaut]

Personally, I think that Abomination should just become baseline. It's an extremely solid damage CD, is in-line with everyone else's CDs, and can be used on trash, though heavy movement lowers it's value.

[Kaver]

Assassination def has ramp up compared to the other rogue specs, but it's also bursty by rogue standards on a class with the inimitable shroud of concealment and the OP as hell Cloak of Shadows and Cheat Death, so I'm fine with them lower in the totem pole given how absurdly good their utility is.

Of all the specs I mentioned, all but feral definitely lack snap burst.

If you think Rogue utility is more OP than DK utility right now, then I'm guessing you're probably not playing the game right now. And if you do you're probably not doing in high end content

Also, Unholy DKs got crazy good burst. So again, something tells me you don't play the game right now.

[Lucrece]

If you think Rogue utility is more OP than DK utility right now, then I'm guessing you're probably not playing the game right now. And if you do you're probably not doing in high end content

Also, Unholy DKs got crazy good burst. So again, something tells me you don't play the game right now.

You're a fucking moron. The MDI melee DPS representation when it wasn't using monks, was rogues because there's no more powerful utility in MDI than stealth skips, which is why so many in the MDI were running night elf stacking to begin with.

Rogue has 2 death ignore tools, of which AMS is a pale shadow, and whenever immunity mechanics are cheesed, it's not DK's that are stacked, but rogues and mages.

The single DK utility of relevance was AMZ, whoop de doo. Rogue has shroud, gouge, blind, KS, cloak as just a few that can be exploited in M+, all while being the most survivable melee class in the game.

Historically, rogue has been a far better represented class, and if anything is holding back rogue this tier, it's their tuning, not their utility.