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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Who tf designs this class? Definitely not Xelnath.
    I haven't been on MMO-C in a while, but it's good to see the bizarre and somewhat creepy cult of Xelnath is still alive and well.
    Last edited by Stunlocked; 2020-12-25 at 08:56 PM.

  2. #22
    Demo and Destro both desperately need tuning passes. Mechanically they're mostly fine; Demo has issues but those go beyond hotfix levels they really should have received some substantial design changes in SL to not be an immobile turret in every scenario.

    Affliction meanwhile is the opposite. It scales really well and that's why it's pumping in raids right now, but man is it a nightmare to play. I've never felt this much stress since the >9,000% haste Shadow Priest days (and they made sure THAT is gone in SL). Pure ST it's alright, but you add anything more and the moaning begins. Raid prep now includes pots, flasks, and ice packs for my fingers because I'm mashing multi-DoTs like a madman. This is not my idea of a good time, especially considering how much easier of a time most other ranged specs have in that respect.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    You *LET* a warlock cast Chaos Bolt? Oh my.
    I mean, it’s easy to miss when it’s less than a 1s cast and a fire mage is also casting gpys, which was frequently the case in S4 BFA.

  4. #24
    Destro is almost perfect, the only thing that is superfluous is us having corruption. Seems like they gave us that ability just so they could attach some crap to it in Torghast. Numbers changes are simple, the design is solid though.

  5. #25
    The only spec that still feels like old school warlock is Destro. The other two, especially Demo have been so weird since Legion. Nothing is smooth gameplay wise. And there is hardly much synergies there.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Stunlocked View Post
    I haven't been on MMO-C in a while, but it's good to see the bizarre and somewhat creepy cult of Xelnath is still alive and well.
    Well deserved considering he was the best class designer WoW and WL ever had. Shame WL had to be brought back down instead of other classes getting brought up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gratlim View Post
    The only spec that still feels like old school warlock is Destro. The other two, especially Demo have been so weird since Legion. Nothing is smooth gameplay wise. And there is hardly much synergies there.
    Yes. Demo has no covenant synergizing with it. Maybe necrolords, but that is soo generic... It feels really forgotten. But we got the 40s imp duration, that's something I guess.
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2020-12-26 at 02:00 PM.

  7. #27
    Demo and Destro suck. And Affli is so horrible to play now.

    I said this exp would be the Doom of the Warlock. I was right.

  8. #28
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Demo and Destro suck. And Affli is so horrible to play now.

    I said this exp would be the Doom of the Warlock. I was right.
    Agreed.

    More than anything else, WTF is up with Demo locks? They have been at or near the rock bottom of the charts for 3 expansions now. There is simply no other spec in the game that has earned and deserves love more than Demo.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Demo and Destro suck. And Affli is so horrible to play now.

    I said this exp would be the Doom of the Warlock. I was right.
    All specs are better than in Legion and strictly (meaning in every possibly way) better than in BfA. This Expansion is the first step up from the bottom. Still not good, demo is superfluous ans affliction not rewarding enough. Destru is okay, but boring. As it was ever since MoP, but then you at least had mana management.

  10. #30
    Current warlock is either feels like shit to play (Affliction in literally any situation, except pure ST) or feels fine, but horribly undertuned (Demo, Destro).
    I've switched to boomkin and enjoy the game x10 now.
    Warlock will have to wait for better times.
    Last edited by Pury; 2020-12-26 at 03:58 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Well deserved considering he was the best class designer WoW and WL ever had. Shame WL had to be brought back down instead of other classes getting brought up.
    yeah yeah, it was fun in MoP when the class was OP for the entire expansion and each spec was legit busted for at least one point in the expansion. But having it so the entire class and all specs are strong and it has only pros and no cons is not really that great a class design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post

    I said this exp would be the Doom of the Warlock. I was right.
    DOOOOOOOOM!

    Next time be sure to say 'SHADOWLANDS IS A SLAP IN THE FACE TO ALL WARLOCKS! SLAP IN THE FACE!!!"

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Stunlocked View Post
    yeah yeah, it was fun in MoP when the class was OP for the entire expansion and each spec was legit busted for at least one point in the expansion. But having it so the entire class and all specs are strong and it has only pros and no cons is not really that great a class design.

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    DOOOOOOOOM!

    Next time be sure to say 'SHADOWLANDS IS A SLAP IN THE FACE TO ALL WARLOCKS! SLAP IN THE FACE!!!"
    Yes, WL was OP in MoP. And still the design philosophy in MoP was better, because talents didn't affect performance that much and much of the class toolkit was baseline with talents being the icing on the cake.

    And honestly, they were mostly OP because of snapshotting. Not just because of it, but a large part stems from it.
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2020-12-26 at 06:45 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    Agreed.

    More than anything else, WTF is up with Demo locks? They have been at or near the rock bottom of the charts for 3 expansions now. There is simply no other spec in the game that has earned and deserves love more than Demo.
    Demo needs another rework. The actual "turret imp master" is impossible to be competitive even with a +25% dmg aura. Dunno why they have decided to despise in this way Demo. And Im not going to talk about the demons themselves or comparations with Hunters.

    The same for Destro, literally playing with 4 buttons + 2 each 3 minutes for cds.

  14. #34
    The problem with warlock design is that the developers are too scared to explore and redesign the class. 16 years + and none of the classes have a 4th spec to add flavor and fun to the class. You could say that it is the players fault as well. What I mean by that is that as soon as the class gets a spell added, the players cry "Op" or "Broken". Add that together with developers mentality of laziness and you have a class that has gotten "Stale" and old with the same shit spells and same o demons to summon. Honestly i don't see warlocks or any classes for the matter to be really fun until the developers can literally learn to expand their mind beyond what classes do now. What I mean by that is fun spells and I would love to see more demons then the same ones that have been around for years.

    Edit.....The class will also stay the same, as is, cause people whine that their is no balance with the 3 trees already implemented. But like I said before, and will continue to say so, there will never ever be balance. Blizzard does not know how to do that. So a 4th spec to all classes will add flavor and fun back into warlocks.
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

  15. #35
    Speaking strictly in terms of class design (how the class actually felt to play), cataclysm was a golden age for warlocks. All 3 specs were fun and viable in both pvp and pve. It might've been OP in MoP but the class design completely killed the fun for me. I mained destro before MoP but the rework made the class so unfun that I rerolled to warrior. Destro in cata: mobile, utility-based, quick casts, survivable and mediocre burst with decent attrition. Destro in mop: completely immobile (they literally had to implement a talent that allowed you to cast while moving because it was THAT immobile), some utility, snail-paced casts, squishy and completely overpowered burst but no damage outside of that. Balance-wise it was stronger in MoP but you were nothing but a chaos bolt/incinerate turret (these 2 spells would literally account for 80%+ of your damage usually), I've never played anything more boring in my life. Not to mention they swapped out the nice looking chaos bolt animation for the abomination that we still have now. Compare how many destro pvp movies were made in cata and mop. There were more than you could count in cata with a lot of skill-based usage of utility and dealing with groups of enemies by outplaying them. In mop there were a handfull of movies about people blowing opponents up with chaos bolts and some utility usage, hardly any of the interesting stuff that was possible in the previous iteration of the spec.

    tldr i miss cata destro bring back pls

  16. #36
    The biggest issue for me with the design of the Warlock class is how the spec that is good for raiding is just no fun to play in mythic+ and vice versa, but maybe that just is an overall issue with the game and not just with warlocks. I really dislike having to respec for different content, because my gear won't be optimized for it, my borrowed power might be focusing on 1 specific spec or the other, etc.

    The affliction niche, being a strong ST spec, just makes it dull or underperforming in almost every other part of the game.
    And even then if you play demo or destro as main spec to focus on mythic+ content, you still get blown out of the water by other classes and specs which on top of it also are top performers in the raid. At that very point you start questioning why you're still bothering playing this class...
    Last edited by Yas-Queen Rochana; 2020-12-28 at 04:32 PM.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorad View Post
    I genuinely started thinking that they are holding back warlock on purpose to be a lackluster class. They are throwing OP abilities left and right but when it comes to warlock they are as careful as walking on thin ice to make the class NOT fun. Absolutely nothing was added in this expansion except soul-rot for affli, rest is 2.5 sec cast trash and filler spells. It blows my mind how a class which has this much depth recieves so less attention.
    affli is a top tier dps,and the change to unstable and its new nuke feel much better,also i feel like demonology is by far the most fun spec in the game,specialy with good stats when you start being a turret of demon spaming sweetness

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by rmfAcc View Post
    The biggest issue for me with the design of the Warlock class is how the spec that is good for raiding is just no fun to play in mythic+ and vice versa, but maybe that just is an overall issue with the game and not just with warlocks. I really dislike having to respec for different content, because my gear won't be optimized for it, my borrowed power might be focusing on 1 specific spec or the other, etc.

    The affliction niche, being a strong ST spec, just makes it dull or underperforming in almost every other part of the game.
    And even then if you play demo or destro as main spec to focus on mythic+ content, you still get blown out of the water by other classes and specs which on top of it also are top performers in the raid. At that very point you start questioning why you're still bothering playing this class...
    Thats a big issue, having a lot to do with the Legion talent revmap which made most talents focus on output rather than mop/wod which were mostly utility.

    But specifically for afflic, i think it also has to due Malefic Rapture scaling linearly with dots (doing x dmg with one dot, 2x with two etc). This means if locks are reasonable in single target, they will be only okish in aoe, because you have much less dots in aoe and most class rotations nowdays basically do their st on aoe or close to it.

    It could perhaps be fixed by changing Malefic to doing a set dmg number, say 70% spellpower, and then increase it by 30% per dot. That way it still scales with dots but you're not punished as much in aoe cuzz the base damage is alright.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bababenny View Post
    Speaking strictly in terms of class design (how the class actually felt to play), cataclysm was a golden age for warlocks. All 3 specs were fun and viable in both pvp and pve. It might've been OP in MoP but the class design completely killed the fun for me. I mained destro before MoP but the rework made the class so unfun that I rerolled to warrior. Destro in cata: mobile, utility-based, quick casts, survivable and mediocre burst with decent attrition. Destro in mop: completely immobile (they literally had to implement a talent that allowed you to cast while moving because it was THAT immobile), some utility, snail-paced casts, squishy and completely overpowered burst but no damage outside of that. Balance-wise it was stronger in MoP but you were nothing but a chaos bolt/incinerate turret (these 2 spells would literally account for 80%+ of your damage usually), I've never played anything more boring in my life. Not to mention they swapped out the nice looking chaos bolt animation for the abomination that we still have now. Compare how many destro pvp movies were made in cata and mop. There were more than you could count in cata with a lot of skill-based usage of utility and dealing with groups of enemies by outplaying them. In mop there were a handfull of movies about people blowing opponents up with chaos bolts and some utility usage, hardly any of the interesting stuff that was possible in the previous iteration of the spec.

    tldr i miss cata destro bring back pls
    Cata destro was kind of a rotational abomination. You had incinerate and conflagrate as fillers, chaos bolt as a weird 12 sec insignificant nuke, and you had to maintain corruption, immolate and doom. Maybe agony too if I'm misremembering. It wasnt really dest in any way beside incinerate as filler.

    Yes, mop focused it down on nuking, but it was a much more complete package of nuking, with chaos bolts hits being satisfying, shadowburn executes and havoc glory. Mop aoe was also fairly interesting (pay embers, all your rotation becomes aoe, but also gives embers back).

    Dest was def the simplest of the three mop lock speccs though. Affliction had Soulburn to use shards in so many ways (atleast 6 augemented spells of the top of my head, prolly more). Soulswap to spread dots.
    Demo in MoP was prolly the most unique specc ever made in wow. Full agency over when to demon form, ton of your spells augemented in interesting ways in it. Glorious.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    You *LET* a warlock cast Chaos Bolt? Oh my.
    It's not like you were CC'd for 3+ seconds by either a root, stun, fear or coil whenever you actually tried to deal damage to them or leave a pillar for longer than 1 second.

  20. #40
    The Patient SynDethroc's Avatar
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    I don't know what you're on my dude, but Affliction Warlock is genuinely one of the most fun classes in the game.

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