So, what do you think of the loot change in Shadowlands regarding m+?

[Malania]

As you are aware, now we get one drop less per dungeon in m+. So in-time it's 2 items, not in time it's just 1 item. I have to be honest here, I think this change hurts my overall fun of the game the most. On average only 4 out of 10 runs you will get one item, that's not even every 2nd time you go in. And that's if you finish the dungeon in time. I have gone without an item on my main for 5 runs, something I can't really recall back in BFA. I get that they "need" to reduce the drops because there is less RNG with the removal of the TF/WF mechanic. But the game (m+) just feels less fun/rewarding to do. I always thought 3 items per run was pretty much perfect. What do you guys think?

My primarily source of loot will be m+, and the way it is now I am encouraged to just do one M+ and wait for the weekly lockout and get my vault item. The ilvl of normal m+ is lower to begin with and so I feel like I have little incentive to spam m+. Is this the intention? If yes then my journey in SL will be short lived because the main reason I am even still playing WoW are Dungeons.

Your fun is dictated by loot? You need a priority shift. Gear is a means to an end, not the end. I ran like 6 mythic's in a row and go no upgrades. Shit happens.

[Mendzia]

I love it.
Never go back to loot pinatas from BFA please.

[callipygoustp]

I don't mind it. It was pretty nice being able to choose between 7 different pieces of loot from the vault. The only bummer was that two of the pieces were REALLY nice upgrades for my resto druid. C'est la vie, better than only one option that absolutely sucked.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I for one don't think they went far enough in making M+ irrelevant if you raid.

Have seen people sporting Mythic raid ilvl pieces already, from doing dungeons...

And gear feels like it actually matters again, and getting x piece means just that, no bs with Titanforging or Corruption, or needing certain Azerite traits...

[Perudo]

I don't mind it, sure my luck have been so-so (Zalkaz) 4 (well 5 with a pair of pants where I have my legendary) pieces. All my keys have been done with the same group, fury warrior, unholy DK, Prot pala, resto druid and arcane mage. So not the best setup but we are having a blast learning how to do the runs.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I don't mind the reduced amount of loot to be honest. Sure, I am not gearing as fast and sometimes that feels bad. I get it. But when I do hit that item it feels really good. So it has ups and downs and over all that makes playing the game more enjoyable to me because when an upgrade it is impactful and feels good. Not to mention as time goes on more and more items will be traded. Right now it is almost every item is needed, used, and soaked by who wins the RNG lotto. Two or three weeks I will be putting up a WHOLE lot more items up for "roll for who wants" stuff at the end of an m+ and I suspect others will be doing the same even in pug groups.

Over all the content just feels a little more challenging when I cannot just outgear it in a week or two which pretty much happened for me in BFA with m+.

[Radisss]

It's amazing. Now i no longer feel obligated to spam m+ in order to gear up and only do a weekly +10/15

- - - Updated - - -

I for one don't think they went far enough in making M+ irrelevant if you raid.

Have seen people sporting Mythic raid ilvl pieces already, from doing dungeons...

And gear feels like it actually matters again, and getting x piece means just that, no bs with Titanforging or Corruption, or needing certain Azerite traits...

The only way you would ever get mythic raid ilvl pieces is from the weekly vault, end of dungeon rewards are below heroic raid ilvl.

[Queen of Hamsters]

It's amazing. Now i no longer feel obligated to spam m+ in order to gear up and only do a weekly +10/15

- - - Updated - - -


The only way you would ever get mythic raid ilvl pieces is from the weekly vault, end of dungeon rewards are below heroic raid ilvl.

... Yeah? The end result is still that someone not having done Mythic raids, are wearing Mythic raid ilvl.

[Radisss]

... Yeah? The end result is still that someone not having done Mythic raids, are wearing Mythic raid ilvl.

Yes? They need a way to gear up too you know? This way their method of gearing will be just as slow as anyone else, especially raiders.
There are also PVP players who are getting mythic raid last boss ilvl weapons from their weekly.

You raid? you gear consistently
You m+? you gear consistently
You pvp? you gear consistenly

Can you do multiple +10-15's? you get more choices
Can you clear the entire raid? you get more choices
You farm more honor in your highest pvp bracket? you get more choices

Everyone is wearing mythic level pieces if they gave two shits, difference is that some people had a lot more choices than others and they're rocking ONE piece after a week. Not full mythic pieces like in Legion/BFA

[kaminaris]

Its probably the end of alternative gearing paths and beginning of guild pouching. Reverting potential fixes doesn't make issues not come back, that's ridiculous to assume so.
It just makes old issues come back.

Meaning if you do M+ you are entirely dependent on weekly vault lottery. While on the other hand mythic raiders will get more consistent loot that just drops from bosses and on the top of that, m+ choices from vault.

First problem is that if you take a break, you just won't be able to catch up. Those missed vaults with gigantic ilvl disparity cannot be overcome.
Second, you can't expect that pug/curve to take you if you stay behind. M+ loot will be irrelevant once couple weeks passes since people will just have half of their gear from vault.
Rolling alt to play some challenging content? Either now or never.

Loot being more rare? If you will have bad luck are you are playing spec that is dependent for example on weapon - well you are screwed.

Oh and guild pouching will be more prominent than ever, it will be much easier to just steal someone from other guild than trying to recruit new players and gearing them up because of two things:
1. In 3 months people will still be missing multiple pieces from raids and dungeons.
2. People generally wouldn't want to pass bosses (because it gives them more options in vault)

[DeiVias]

If you ask me there should be a limit of how many items you can get past a certain key level. Like max of 3 per week for keystones higher than 10.

Good thing they aren't asking you cause you would lose them alot of money.

[froschhure]

No loot no fun and people get more and more toxic. Not sure what i think about SL yet. But i know they have to change a lot... or this dumpster gonna burn real fast

[kamuimac]

Your fun is dictated by loot? You need a priority shift. Gear is a means to an end, not the end. I ran like 6 mythic's in a row and go no upgrades. Shit happens.

ye then lets remove all loot from mythic raiding.

and let them do it just for chalenge

lets see how many people raid then

after all - loot is just a means to an end eh ?

- - - Updated - - -

Its probably the end of alternative gearing paths and beginning of guild pouching. Reverting potential fixes doesn't make issues not come back, that's ridiculous to assume so.
It just makes old issues come back.

Meaning if you do M+ you are entirely dependent on weekly vault lottery. While on the other hand mythic raiders will get more consistent loot that just drops from bosses and on the top of that, m+ choices from vault.

First problem is that if you take a break, you just won't be able to catch up. Those missed vaults with gigantic ilvl disparity cannot be overcome.
Second, you can't expect that pug/curve to take you if you stay behind. M+ loot will be irrelevant once couple weeks passes since people will just have half of their gear from vault.
Rolling alt to play some challenging content? Either now or never.

Loot being more rare? If you will have bad luck are you are playing spec that is dependent for example on weapon - well you are screwed.

Oh and guild pouching will be more prominent than ever, it will be much easier to just steal someone from other guild than trying to recruit new players and gearing them up because of two things:
1. In 3 months people will still be missing multiple pieces from raids and dungeons.
2. People generally wouldn't want to pass bosses (because it gives them more options in vault)

not only guild pouching but also guilds dying

people easily forget how without loot lossing a crucial role - like geared tank can implode guild in 1 night as suddenly they will have to reprogress many bossed due to people simply not having gear to make certain dps/hps checks and ... there will be no geared people around since they will be weeks/months being on vault gear

will be hillarious to watch this fiasco unfolding on forums - i have my popcorn already ready

[Toybox]

not only guild pouching but also guilds dying

people easily forget how without loot lossing a crucial role - like geared tank can implode guild in 1 night as suddenly they will have to reprogress many bossed due to people simply not having gear to make certain dps/hps checks and ... there will be no geared people around since they will be weeks/months being on vault gear

This isn't Classic. There's no tank-specific stats anymore, & everyone will be playing with a similar level of gear throughout a raid team more often than not. If both of our tanks stopped playing for whatever reason, all it takes is the click of a button & the swapping of a weapon enchant and/or equipping of a sword & shield and you're good to go. In the case of my guild, I'm probably the most experienced at tanking in it, despite currently playing DPS. If either tank left, it'd obviously be shit, but other than a few wipes reprogressing, from a raiding POV, it'd be a non-issue.

[Gotural]

I love it.

People fully gearing themselves in m+ really changed up the dynamic and balance of the game in Legion and BfA.
I was kinda tired to have to do them in order to be comptitive in PvP or in raid.

The real problem with m+ is that because it's repeatable, it creates an unhealthy environment for the players where if it's good, you kinda feel like you need to farm them over and over and over again, which not only incentivize you to play a lot more, but also makes you burnout a lot faster.

I truely feel like rewarding the best gear on a lockout/weekly basis with raiding, conquest and the great vault is a LOT better for the playerbase and the game. Now I feel like I can get the best equipment out there in a few hours per week if I'm good enough, like we did in every expacs before Legion. I don't feel behind when I don't play 6hours a day and feel like I can enjoy some other things beside WoW.

[Malania]

ye then lets remove all loot from mythic raiding.

and let them do it just for chalenge

lets see how many people raid then

after all - loot is just a means to an end eh ?

Actually probably the same amount. I raided mythic content from TBC until WoD, the gear just meant I could kill the next tier of bosses within a number requirement set by Blizzard. I still had to learn the encounter and be able to do them in a team environment which is the actual fun part of mythic raiding... You should try it.

The gear is just replaceable pixels on a screen that's there to serve you for your aim in the game. Mine was challenging content.

[D3athsting]

Did m0 plaguefall every week since release and about 10 m+ runs, still need fire conduit that is mandatory for raiding, wp blizz

[Boddhi]

Just wondering about everyone saying something like "I do not feel like spamming m+ for that few loots, not worth my time".. I mean it's the game right, that's the playing part of playing a computer game. When you feel like the activity is not worth your time, then its probably not the rewards but because you just don't feel like doing it? Maybe do something else then that's fun or even play another game thats worth your time more. Just sayin'...

[Malania]

Did m0 plaguefall every week since release and about 10 m+ runs, still need fire conduit that is mandatory for raiding, wp blizz

I still need a bow upgrade as I'm rocking a 155 still. Specific loot drops are RNG. Blizzard can't fix that for you.

[Philomene]

The old system was a lot of loot endorphins week one and then mostly sharding non titanforged items and having a weekly chest of disappointment experience.

Now week one is a bit of a slow burn, but looting a purple is more fun most of the time and I know that my first 10 runs are actually helping me with the loot that counts.

So for me it's 10/10 please never go back.

Pretty much this. The reward system is in a good state right now. People should play Diablo if they want the endless loot shower. I also think people got used to constantly overgear the instances thanks to the loot shower and forging.