Nahhh Paladins need a nerf ASAP

[Krakan]

There's your problem. No PvP is balanced around 1v1 ever and they won't nerf a class just based on 1v1. They base it on around teamplay and *I think* the last time they talked about it that it was more balanced around 3v3.

Questions you should be asking are "How can you counter during the 6/8 sec (I forgot the duration of it) that bubble is up"? I saw you mention DH so why not double fel rush away? Yes, you could get stunned but then you have a trinket for that situation. That's off the top of my head.

That is still extremely oppressive as it forces you to save a vaste amount of movement or externals. The problem is there isn't really any counter play to offensive immunity in wow.

[stigz]

It's always been like that, the difference is that you can only have 20 seconds every 2 minutes to pull that off, a fire mage with with combustion can easily dish out the same amount of damage (sometimes even more) with a 1 min CD that can be reduced further.

Ret is also very frontloaded in terms of damage, most of your damage comes from templar's verdict wich means that you will see a big number when it crits, as opposed to other specs that have dots, and procs like windfury, where you will see a lot of different numbers from different sources

saying “well fire mage does more damage” doesn’t equate to rets being balanced lol. fire mage combustion is even more broken. They both need tuning down. It’s the Ret healing coupled with its damage that makes it broken

[Swnem]

That is still extremely oppressive as it forces you to save a vaste amount of movement or externals. The problem is there isn't really any counter play to offensive immunity in wow.

Err.... mass dispel? Shattering Throw?

It is really too much to ask to hold a movement tool against a 5m CD ability? Fel rush is what? 15 seconds? Very difficult.
How about the night fae fox? The venthyr teleport? Part of the game is coming up with the counterplays.

[Krakan]

Err.... mass dispel? Shattering Throw?

It is really too much to ask to hold a movement tool against a 5m CD ability? Fel rush is what? 15 seconds? Very difficult.
How about the night fae fox? The venthyr teleport? Part of the game is coming up with the counterplays.

Having someone flat out running from you isn't a counter play... saying " hey I want to remove all pressure on my team instantly " isn't well designed.

That said I do realize that the way the class is built without it you would never see them win past 1500 so i concede its currently needed.

[Zephire]

Whether the actual effect is difficult to pull off is irrelevant, all that matters is how difficult it is to deal with. All Rets are doing is essentially leveraging Execution Sentence and Final Reckoning to amplify their Templars Verdict damage, which has an 8~second (roughly 5~seconds after setup) window of usage every minute, which isn't that powerful. Frankly, Ret Paladin are one of the easiest melee to deal with. They arguably have the least mobility in the game, their damage outside of CDs is atrocious, and their most potent CDs are so short lived that they only really need to be controlled for 5-10 seconds every minute in order to negate their damage. On top of that, they only have a single meaningful defensive cooldown: Divine Shield. If players can't deal with CCing the Paladin once a minute, they can simply train the Paladin until they pop DS and break the bubble with Shattering Throw or Mass Dispel (if with a Warrior or Priest). Hell, even if they can't break the DS, the Paladin likely won't be able to catch you if they're outside of 20 yards anyways.

Indeed. My point was simply that something can be broken on low rating but not on high rating because people can deal with it up there which means a nerf would hurt them on high rating and instead some kind of adjustment according to skill could be the answer.

[Fearlof]

Hahahaha Imagine crying to 8 sec long bubble with 300 sec long CD.
Do you even Netherwalk?

Why wouldn’t you? In 1vs1 that’s pretty much a kill

[Palapop]

Why wouldn’t you? In 1vs1 that’s pretty much a kill

unless you pop your own def? or run away? or anything like that.... hmmmm?

[Ermelloth]

Paladins are fine now, except 2 things that need additional tweaking:

*Divine Toll + Ringing Clarity combo (Kyrian soulbind, Ret) doing excessive damage
*Prot Paladin healing, which is comparable of that do dedicated healers (Prot heals *2-3 as much as Ret)

If these two problems are fixed, all Paladin specs will remain to be decent, but no more OP. It will balance both Prot and Ret out.

P.S. Why nerfing non-Holy Paladins to the ground is not happening yet and, hopefully, unlikely to happen this time?

I think Blizzard did the math and finally realized that quite many players main Ret / Prot. Keeping these two specs mediocre / bad in BFA contributed quite seriously to overall sub drop. Finally they learned and understood that, as it seems.

[korocota]

I think Blizzard did the math and finally realized that quite many players main Ret / Prot. Keeping these two specs mediocre / bad in BFA contributed quite seriously to overall sub drop. Finally they learned and understood that, as it seems.

Bfa subs dropped due to Game being shit overall.

People will reroll to overtuned specs as soon as they can, look at first week hunter/rogue numbers and ret/balance/warr/ww now.

You could argue pala and warr are very popular, but I ran into more wws and boomkins in the last two weeks in arena than ever, usually paired with a ret or holy pally.

[Ermelloth]

I don't just mean popular PvP-wise; popular as main / most beloved characters in general, PvE and PvP and everything else wise.

I main a Ret since 2007 (the very first days I started playing WoW). Because I truly like it, it is the class / spec combo I mostly associate myself with.

P.S. Never FOTM rerolled. Played Assassin Rogue as 2nd class in MoP / WoD when it was good in PvP (never liked Sub); since then I don't simply have enough time to fully manage two progressive characters so it is the main Ret only right now.

[chilblains]

anyone who claims ret is fine and not OP should kill themselves

in game ofc /s

imagine justifying 15k templar's verdict. this forum is truly retarded.

[Demsi]

anyone who claims ret is fine and not OP should kill themselves

in game ofc /s

imagine justifying 15k templar's verdict. this forum is truly retarded.

Ever thought about using defensives? just a thought

[kosajk]

I'm calling BS on this one, even with every CD up and Final Reckoning there's no way you're going to do 21k to another player, not even on a training dummy.

He have 29k hp means rather Lo gear tbh got same number in my face on random BG like 3-4 weeks ago, hard to say how they do it but for sure it's possible assuming nerf bat haven't hit them yet from that time

[gobio]

Again, paladins need nerfs, deal with it

Speaking only on a banter level.
Telling somebody to deal with reality I can understand
Telling somebody to deal with 'reality needed to be changed' I don't understand, like how? it only make sense if you are the boss of the developer (in this case), otherwise how can someone deal with "paladins need nerfs"? By joining your forum crusade?

[stigz]

Speaking only on a banter level.
Telling somebody to deal with reality I can understand
Telling somebody to deal with 'reality needed to be changed' I don't understand, like how? it only make sense if you are the boss of the developer (in this case), otherwise how can someone deal with "paladins need nerfs"? By joining your forum crusade?

you think you’re perfectly balanced and don’t need any tuning or nerfs?

[Sunslayer]

You just can't compete with the high dmg output and self healing.

10k verdict crits? give me a break

Just to throw this out there...no Ret teams won EU or NA AWC...so, uh...

[Kalisandra]

Well, the yammering masses got their wish - WoG is being nerfed in PvP. Not nerfed for some specs, or when in combination with some other power or talent, but just plain nerfed. Given that Ret (and Prot) is already not over-performing at high ratings, this is not good for Ret.

Hope the haters are happy.

[Rullis]

Sure paladins are OP but what about other classes? Warriors insane dmg? What about druids with three teleportations and removing movement imparing effects on switiching form? Mages insane burst with combustion and another three teleportaions at the same time and what about their 90% slows? And rogues 100% crit after exiting stealth? MM Hunter with kyrians wallhack ability.
Tbh they need to nerf many classes in the game and buff some also e.g. DK

RIP from night fae hunter here considering I wanna raid > pvp

[yomammyass]

Well, the yammering masses got their wish - WoG is being nerfed in PvP. Not nerfed for some specs, or when in combination with some other power or talent, but just plain nerfed. Given that Ret (and Prot) is already not over-performing at high ratings, this is not good for Ret.

Hope the haters are happy.

Rekt

10 WoG chars

[Cracked]

Well, the yammering masses got their wish - WoG is being nerfed in PvP. Not nerfed for some specs, or when in combination with some other power or talent, but just plain nerfed. Given that Ret (and Prot) is already not over-performing at high ratings, this is not good for Ret.

Hope the haters are happy.

They are not overperforming because 1) nobody wants to play ret 2) nobody wants to be cancer playing prot.