I leveled a Character just to dispute the Torghast claims - My results;

[Knight Meta]

So after having capped a Hunter, a Paladin and a Monk - I was going to cap a Lock for my 4th character. But then I started noting the Torghast hate threads. Having breezed trough it on the 3 aforementioned classes (Understandably so) I figured "Hey, I am going to cap all the classes anyway. Let's just cap something that struggles in Torghast just to see how it is on a class that has it rough in the Tower"

After scouring trough MMO-Champ threads, official Forum Threads, feedback in multiple Guild / Community chat tabs as well with asking on some Discord Servers / Facebook groups; it seemed like Rogue and Mage was the two classes that struggled the most. While every class has people saying that "No it is honestly hard for this class as well due to *Insert reason here*" - I found that Rogue and Mage had the highest number of people claiming the Tower was a hassle. So while I have capped and played a bit of every single class since Cataclysm for each expansion (WoD Exluded) - I went with Mage as Rogue is always my last class to cap and it is in general the class I like the least in this game, and I do like myself some PvP - Rogue just is not my style.

So while I was leveling my Mage, they came with the Torghast nerfs and I figured "Damnit, there it goes..." Layer 8 was now as difficult as 6 before the nerfs and while I had close to no issue clearing Torghast out on my capped chars (Monk - Even as Brew Master being the only one who was semi-reliant on somewhat decent Anima powers, I was no higher than 170-175 ilvl on him as I pushed to the top) - I sort of tok this as a "Nothing left to go at now"

But the complaining did not stop.

So I capped my Mage during the previous reset and have since ran him trough a about 12 Mythic dungeons in total, I also did some keystone dungeons and sitting at an ilvl of 182 (Which even without the Mythic+ is not too hard of an ilvl to reach now) I entered Torghast without a Legendary. I will link my Character's armory page at the end of this thread so people can see for them selves. Due to account shared Ach's it says that I have completed the "Make a legendary Achievement" but that one is dated to BEFORE my Mage got the Ach for hitting level 60; so there's that for proof of that I have no leggo on him currently.

Having done Layers 1 and 2 during the last reset just to get a taste of what I was getting into (And HAVING to clear them all since why on AZEROTH would Layer unlocking carry over to alts?) I have now been sitting and have done Layers 3 throughout 8 of Mort'regar in one sitting, and I will share my toughts on it all after giving you all and overview of my Layer 8 status:

I wrapped up my Mort'regar Layer 8 run with the following stats as a Necrolord Goblin Arcane Mage:

45K Health (2,3K stam)
65K Mana (1,7K Int)
A GCD timer of 1.34.
17,57% Crit
11,80% Haste
9,27% Versa
18,69% Mastery
1,33% leech.

My Talents were as following:

Amplification + Arcane Familiar (<- Earned via Anima)
Shimmer.
Incanter's Flow.
Arcane Echo.
Chrono Shift + Ice Ward (<- Earned via Anima)
Arcane Orb.
Enlightened.

My anima powers were as follows: (32)

3x Sapphire Prisim.
2x Curious Maisma.
1 x Polymorbid Rat Liver.
1x Resolute Medalion.
1x One With Death.
5x Obleron Endurance.
3x Timeweaver's Needle.
4x Bottled Tesseract.
1x Mad Wizzard's Scrawlings (Which I got 3 stacks off due to where I found it)
1x Volatile Flesh.
2x Constellation Shield.
1x Wand Grease.
1x Thudrir Phial.
1x Oblreon Spikes.
1x Orb of Replenishment.
1x Corruption Antenna.
1x Maldraxxian Repayment (BUTTONS!)
1x Archmage's Cypher (I had Amplification so I picked Arcane Familiar)
1x Archmage's Legacy (I had Crhono Shift so I picked Ice Ward)

I had 17 stacks of Soul Remnant's Blessing.

No consumables or health potions was used.

After all of this; I honestly can't say that I see what the fuzz is all about. Layers 1-5 was mostly a big joke, on Layers 6-7 I started being a bit more carefull with my pulls. Focusing more on trying to get 1 and 1 (Or just small packs at a time) and Layer 8 had the biggest spike for sure. I did not pay attention too the exact health / Damage numbers across the floors but it felt like Layer 8 had a hefty spike in base Health and Damage on the mobs. It was at least a somewhat greater leap up from 7 in contrast to what it was like going from 6 to 7.

Layer 8 was was the only floor where "tactics" came into play. Taking better note of patrols. Never doing "Yolo pulls" - Taking advantage of that some of the NPCs inside the tower is engaged in combat with one and other to weed out enemies one at a time. Waiting for big CD's before larger pulls. And most importantly; Not jumping between platforms (The teleport ones / grapple hook ones) unless I had Invis ready as these telports / grapples may sometimes land you in situations where you do not decide how much you WANT to pull. Being able to shake off and do a "reset" is sort of needed here.

I only used Timewarp on the End floor bosses and final boss with the exception of Floor 4 on the 8th Layer as it had the Grapple-Platforms and one of em was stacked with enemies that saw trough stealth; and I wanted that platform cleared despite that I could simply walk past it; as it held one Anima power in a jar + a treasure chest.

I ended the run with 1 Death remaining. I lost 3 on Floor 4 due to the nature of the platforms and enemies that could see trough stealth giving me sort of a hard time. But 1 of those deaths COULD have been avoided if I had just waited for Ice Block to be ready. 1 of the deaths was a happy accident with me forgetting that Rocket Jump denies the use of Slow fall for 10 seconds.

The final boss of the run was Watchers of Death. When he hit the floor,; I still had 2 Replenishment Orbs left, had 1 more Nova to stall. Alter Time + Mirror Image was about to come off CD and in general I was in good health.

So I need to ask; what really is people's issue? The ONLY thing I feel like I can say now is "Okay, I feel bad for the Rogues" as they have a harder time than the Mages. But that's it... If Layer 8 now is as challenging as 6 was before then I may understand the complaints from back then as I doubt my Mage in this state could have taken on the old Layer 8 (Looking at how current 8 went, I belive that Layer 7 pre-nerf should have been doable, especially if I got myself a Legendary) so okay, old layer 8 was maybe a bit too balls for Mage and Rogue, but as for how Torghast currently stands? It's rather straight forward.

I feel like people's issue is not that the tower is hard. They make it hard due to impatience; I bet about half of the complaints would have been silenced if people actually: Was carefull with pulls and stopped pretending this is BFA. Tok note of what casts / abilities the enemies has as to keep in mind what should be interrupted and what that can be avoided / LOS'ed. And most of all; did not treat Torghast like they need to speed run it.

I'll continue to sweep out this joke of a Tower til they open Twisting Corridors, due to that having NO Legendries tied in and simply holding PURELY Cosmetic rewards; it would be much appreciated if people who for whatever reason find current Torghast "Hard" would stay away from Twisting Corridors. That section of Torghast does not need to be nerfed just because some people will feel entitled to getting a Mount.

My Character: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...ll/akazamzarak

[Kumorii]

Mages were difficult? Lol... been one shotting it solo since the start even with buffs or nerfs. Then again I heard people taking the wrong powers in some other thread. Where they said the only "good" power mages have is the invis one that increases your fireball or AB or frostbolt dmg cast from invis... which is ridiculous.

I sum it up to people picking wrong powers... only thinking of big numbers rather than synergies.

[Amaterasu65]

I did layer 8 on both wings as a mage before the nerfs. If I was melee'd 2-3 times I was dead. That meant I had to kite a lot and w8 on Combustions and cds in general. Fireblast knockup power is super useful. Now it's a breeze. Waiting for Corridors for a proper challenge.

[Dethxx]

Ok.



/10 char

[vulfrika]

Try a rogue and come back at me.

[Knight Meta]

Try a rogue and come back at me.

Okay so I was waiting for a comment like this, and I do not care if it's a bait or not as someone would come along and mean this unironically. *Grabs your fishing hook and pulls you into the water* Now get down here and listen up.

Even if we SOLIDIFY that Rogue now is the ONLY Class that really has a reason to say "Torghast is hard" - Ignoring how they have Stealth and can handpick fights or even skip them, looking mostly just to Jars and Treasures. That means we need individual Class balancing in Torghast. The Tower itself is at this point a pushover for mostly anything but Rogue.

This is of course assuming that people who brave the higher floors has done more than 2 Heroic Dungeons, but if you have done no more gearing than that; you really got nothing to do in the Tower anyway.

Now I have not cross checked how it is from my WW Monk / Ret Pala / BM Hunter and now - Arcane Mage in terms of Numbers and health so I have noe clue if Torghast only has spec balancing or if it has some modicum of Class balancing. Regardless if it does not not, clearly it would need to be adjusted more if it does - Since we can't nerf the entire tower when in reality; only one class should actually struggle to clear the entire thing out.

[iloveplanets]

I think it's going to be most difficult for whatever class you're not comfortable playing. I doubt pikaboo or pshero for example would have any trouble with Torghast on Rogue.

[chiddie]

So after having capped a Hunter, a Paladin and a Monk - I was going to cap a Lock for my 4th character. But then I started noting the Torghast hate threads. Having breezed trough it on the 3 aforementioned classes (Understandably so) I figured "Hey, I am going to cap all the classes anyway. Let's just cap something that struggles in Torghast just to see how it is on a class that has it rough in the Tower"

After scouring trough MMO-Champ threads, official Forum Threads, feedback in multiple Guild / Community chat tabs as well with asking on some Discord Servers / Facebook groups; it seemed like Rogue and Mage was the two classes that struggled the most. While every class has people saying that "No it is honestly hard for this class as well due to *Insert reason here*" - I found that Rogue and Mage had the highest number of people claiming the Tower was a hassle. So while I have capped and played a bit of every single class since Cataclysm for each expansion (WoD Exluded) - I went with Mage as Rogue is always my last class to cap and it is in general the class I like the least in this game, and I do like myself some PvP - Rogue just is not my style.

So while I was leveling my Mage, they came with the Torghast nerfs and I figured "Damnit, there it goes..." Layer 8 was now as difficult as 6 before the nerfs and while I had close to no issue clearing Torghast out on my capped chars (Monk - Even as Brew Master being the only one who was semi-reliant on somewhat decent Anima powers, I was no higher than 170-175 ilvl on him as I pushed to the top) - I sort of tok this as a "Nothing left to go at now"

But the complaining did not stop.

So I capped my Mage during the previous reset and have since ran him trough a about 12 Mythic dungeons in total, I also did some keystone dungeons and sitting at an ilvl of 182 (Which even without the Mythic+ is not too hard of an ilvl to reach now) I entered Torghast without a Legendary. I will link my Character's armory page at the end of this thread so people can see for them selves. Due to account shared Ach's it says that I have completed the "Make a legendary Achievement" but that one is dated to BEFORE my Mage got the Ach for hitting level 60; so there's that for proof of that I have no leggo on him currently.

Having done Layers 1 and 2 during the last reset just to get a taste of what I was getting into (And HAVING to clear them all since why on AZEROTH would Layer unlocking carry over to alts?) I have now been sitting and have done Layers 3 throughout 8 of Mort'regar in one sitting, and I will share my toughts on it all after giving you all and overview of my Layer 8 status:

I wrapped up my Mort'regar Layer 8 run with the following stats as a Necrolord Goblin Arcane Mage:

45K Health (2,3K stam)
65K Mana (1,7K Int)
A GCD timer of 1.34.
17,57% Crit
11,80% Haste
9,27% Versa
18,69% Mastery
1,33% leech.

My Talents were as following:

Amplification + Arcane Familiar (<- Earned via Anima)
Shimmer.
Incanter's Flow.
Arcane Echo.
Chrono Shift + Ice Ward (<- Earned via Anima)
Arcane Orb.
Enlightened.

My anima powers were as follows: (32)

3x Sapphire Prisim.
2x Curious Maisma.
1 x Polymorbid Rat Liver.
1x Resolute Medalion.
1x One With Death.
5x Obleron Endurance.
3x Timeweaver's Needle.
4x Bottled Tesseract.
1x Mad Wizzard's Scrawlings (Which I got 3 stacks off due to where I found it)
1x Volatile Flesh.
2x Constellation Shield.
1x Wand Grease.
1x Thudrir Phial.
1x Oblreon Spikes.
1x Orb of Replenishment.
1x Corruption Antenna.
1x Maldraxxian Repayment (BUTTONS!)
1x Archmage's Cypher (I had Amplification so I picked Arcane Familiar)
1x Archmage's Legacy (I had Crhono Shift so I picked Ice Ward)

I had 17 stacks of Soul Remnant's Blessing.

No consumables or health potions was used.

After all of this; I honestly can't say that I see what the fuzz is all about. Layers 1-5 was mostly a big joke, on Layers 6-7 I started being a bit more carefull with my pulls. Focusing more on trying to get 1 and 1 (Or just small packs at a time) and Layer 8 had the biggest spike for sure. I did not pay attention too the exact health / Damage numbers across the floors but it felt like Layer 8 had a hefty spike in base Health and Damage on the mobs. It was at least a somewhat greater leap up from 7 in contrast to what it was like going from 6 to 7.

Layer 8 was was the only floor where "tactics" came into play. Taking better note of patrols. Never doing "Yolo pulls" - Taking advantage of that some of the NPCs inside the tower is engaged in combat with one and other to weed out enemies one at a time. Waiting for big CD's before larger pulls. And most importantly; Not jumping between platforms (The teleport ones / grapple hook ones) unless I had Invis ready as these telports / grapples may sometimes land you in situations where you do not decide how much you WANT to pull. Being able to shake off and do a "reset" is sort of needed here.

I only used Timewarp on the End floor bosses and final boss with the exception of Floor 4 on the 8th Layer as it had the Grapple-Platforms and one of em was stacked with enemies that saw trough stealth; and I wanted that platform cleared despite that I could simply walk past it; as it held one Anima power in a jar + a treasure chest.

I ended the run with 1 Death remaining. I lost 3 on Floor 4 due to the nature of the platforms and enemies that could see trough stealth giving me sort of a hard time. But 1 of those deaths COULD have been avoided if I had just waited for Ice Block to be ready. 1 of the deaths was a happy accident with me forgetting that Rocket Jump denies the use of Slow fall for 10 seconds.

The final boss of the run was Watchers of Death. When he hit the floor,; I still had 2 Replenishment Orbs left, had 1 more Nova to stall. Alter Time + Mirror Image was about to come off CD and in general I was in good health.

So I need to ask; what really is people's issue? The ONLY thing I feel like I can say now is "Okay, I feel bad for the Rogues" as they have a harder time than the Mages. But that's it... If Layer 8 now is as challenging as 6 was before then I may understand the complaints from back then as I doubt my Mage in this state could have taken on the old Layer 8 (Looking at how current 8 went, I belive that Layer 7 pre-nerf should have been doable, especially if I got myself a Legendary) so okay, old layer 8 was maybe a bit too balls for Mage and Rogue, but as for how Torghast currently stands? It's rather straight forward.

I feel like people's issue is not that the tower is hard. They make it hard due to impatience; I bet about half of the complaints would have been silenced if people actually: Was carefull with pulls and stopped pretending this is BFA. Tok note of what casts / abilities the enemies has as to keep in mind what should be interrupted and what that can be avoided / LOS'ed. And most of all; did not treat Torghast like they need to speed run it.

I'll continue to sweep out this joke of a Tower til they open Twisting Corridors, due to that having NO Legendries tied in and simply holding PURELY Cosmetic rewards; it would be much appreciated if people who for whatever reason find current Torghast "Hard" would stay away from Twisting Corridors. That section of Torghast does not need to be nerfed just because some people will feel entitled to getting a Mount.

My Character: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...ll/akazamzarak

Dude just an OT question: do you have a life out of Azeroth?

[vian]

Try a rogue and come back at me.

It's still a none issue.

[Knight Meta]

Dude just an OT question: do you have a life out of Azeroth?

I do. I work from 06:00 - 14:00 each week. Or every 4th week I do the late shift which is 12:00 - 20:00. But apart from those work hours 5 days a week. I mostly play WoW yeah. I jump off sometimes to play Hots with some friends. And me + the SO sometimes sit down and just watch a movie / a show / some anime. But besides that it's mostly WoW. And most of my active friend + my SO plays WoW as well so - It's just easy for me to spend time in Azeroth atm.

[Merlunie]

Dude just an OT question: do you have a life out of Azeroth?

This takes a couple hours max. Are you confused?

[God Save The King]

While not as in depth as your analysis, I did level my rogue up this last week and got him to 189 ilvl. My guild has stopped doing normal clears as of last Tuesday, so we did a normal run this weekend I wanted to level an alt for.

Then I did some mythics with the guild, some keystones, and bought the darkmoon trinket from the AH to hit 189.

I crawled through the layers and also found 1-7 to be trivial (I did Coldheart to climb since dodging the flying people is easy). I don't really like sub, so I went outlaw for raids/dungeons and torghast. Layer 8 I had to take a lot slower, but with stealth, cc, and the rest of the rogue's massive toolkit, it wasn't too bad to control each fight and clear it out. I did full clear each floor on layer 8 to make sure I had the powers to finish up the final boss.

Then I swapped over to layer 8 on Mort'egar or however it's spelled. That one I tried to go for 'speed'. Took about 20 minutes for the whole layer and I picked up 14 anima powers mainly stealthing and only getting jars/rares/floor bosses.

[Merlunie]

Try a rogue and come back at me.

My friend is the worst rogue on the planet and he can use his two brain cells to do the anemic version of Torghast that is currently in the game.

[enigma77]

TLDR: Bads gonna be bads.

[Scathan]

So after having capped a Hunter, a Paladin and a Monk - I was going to cap a Lock for my 4th character. But then I started noting the Torghast hate threads. Having breezed trough it on the 3 aforementioned classes (Understandably so) I figured "Hey, I am going to cap all the classes anyway. Let's just cap something that struggles in Torghast just to see how it is on a class that has it rough in the Tower"

[/url]

Hello. Mage main since vanilla here. Pre nerf I had no issues until 7 or 8. 6 could be a problem with bad anima powers. I did it as arcane.

The change to scroll seeker anima power (from next ab, to all ab) was by far the most significant change. Even pre nerf it made it easy. Pick this anima power as early as possible.

I have one question for you though, as your thesis seems to be is mage/rogue more difficult than other classes, and not is it doable on mages/rogues.

Is it more difficult on your mage? Because it seems to me the answer to that question is yes. As having 1 death remaining seems like less than an easy breezy run. Did you die as much on your other classes? Those deaths were all post nerf right?

[Corroc]

Finish layer 8 with 1 death available = I dont see a problem here. Alot of classes just breeze through 8's without having to even think about the whole thing.

[dacoolist]

Try a rogue and come back at me.

I have buddies with 160 rogs clearing all wings layer 8 with no issues what so ever.. they literally are normal players that just came back to the game to check it out.

I get that some people are talking about PRE NERF Torg but this is post nerf, the entire thing is a joke now

[oplawlz]

I mean was there ever any doubt most of the whining was coming from "mad cuz bad"?
I'll admit it is (very rarely) possible to get screwed over by powers. I've gotten nothing but defensives, which blew with the previously unavoidable stacking power buff on bosses. This is not the norm though, and a non-issue with bosses losing their cc immunity.

[Knight Meta]

Hello. Mage main since vanilla here. Pre nerf I had no issues until 7 or 8. 6 could be a problem with bad anima powers. I did it as arcane.

The change to scroll seeker anima power (from next ab, to all ab) was by far the most significant change. Even pre nerf it made it easy. Pick this anima power as early as possible.

I have one question for you though, as your thesis seems to be is mage/rogue more difficult than other classes, and not is it doable on mages/rogues.

Is it more difficult on your mage? Because it seems to me the answer to that question is yes. As having 1 death remaining seems like less than an easy breezy run. Did you die as much on your other classes? Those deaths were all post nerf right?

The deaths as mentioned was mostly due to the Platform layout that forces combat rather than giving you controlled pulls. This paired with NPCs that sees invisible players makes it a hazzle; Mort'regar is in this sense what I would call one of the most challenging wings, the ones where you are "grounded" all the time mostly always allows for pulling patterns on your own term and would thus be easier in essence.

My Hunter and Paladin (Prot) swept Layer 8 clean before the nerfs and has ofc no issue after them. My Monk (Who is now worse geared than my Mage... Kinda left him a bit behind for this experiment) can clear out Layer 8 as Brewmaster if I get SOME correct anima powers. WW cant handle the damage it seems - But it may also be that I am just not too well versed in Monk as while I have as mentioned; played all classes before - Monk is one I played little of in BFA and last played for "real" in Legion, so I may just suck as a Monk. Mage is something I have actively played since WoTLK on the other hand which is why I may just find that easier on a personal level. But moving over to a friend of mine; he has the opposite experience - He finds Monk a breeze but mage to be a real dud.

[Gorgrock]

I haven't had much a problem either, but I certainly wouldn't say there isn't (wasn't?) one.

I read the first post as "I have played this game with moderate consistency for well over a decade. I make it a point to learn each class and I do a variety of high end content even on fresh alts. I don't get cutting edge or anything, so I'm just a casual and typical wow player I assume. I had no problems applying skills that I have developed over many, many years of practice to achieve my goals, even though it did get pretty close towards the end there anyway. What's the big deal?"

Thing is my dude, you're good at this game and it's easy to take for granted. Most people here are, really. Even if you're not trying to git gud, just spending such a comical amount of time in the game is going to naturally make you more comfortable.
I'm not saying it needs to be easy for every new player, but they don't have the depth of knowledge you've developed and they probably won't any time soon. They've gotta play too.

I figure it could be solved with an ilvl suggestion and a low gear warning that you have to click past rather than nerfs, but I don't know nothin bout nothin.