Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[Machismo]

The moderate wing of a fascist party, who gives a fuck?

Why are you ignoring his racism against the Vietnamese?
His racist bomb Iran song?
Him staying a member of a fascist as shit party his entire life? If he really was as ''moderate" as you claim, why not join the already conservative blue dog faction? Oh right, they where not far right enough for him and not conservative enough.


If I did, I would call the dems a far right party, yet i'm not doing that and refer to them as centre-right. How does that fit in your world view?


Why do you think I give a fuck? Nobody in the US senate or house is even close to my political point of view. That is not what is about, its about thinking that creating a fuck huge coalition is somehow going to make everybody happy.

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm well aware of his history, his capture, his Beach Boy's cover, his financial crime, and all the rest.

The "blue dog" thing is also largely non-existent.

It's not about making everyone happy... there's only two parties. It's about making enough people content enough to vote for your particular party. That's why there's no real need to listen to the warnings from people who have zero skin in the game. You cannot vote, and you live thousands of miles away. Why should the GOP or the Democrats care who you would, and would not support?

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The moderate wing of a fascist party, who gives a fuck?

Why are you ignoring his racism against the Vietnamese?
His racist bomb Iran song?
Him staying a member of a fascist as shit party his entire life? If he really was as ''moderate" as you claim, why not join the already conservative blue dog faction? Oh right, they where not far right enough for him and not conservative enough.


If I did, I would call the dems a far right party, yet i'm not doing that and refer to them as centre-right. How does that fit in your world view?


Why do you think I give a fuck? Nobody in the US senate or house is even close to my political point of view. That is not what is about, its about thinking that creating a fuck huge coalition is somehow going to make everybody happy.

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This was purely for the president election, right, and it was down from 10% of the gop that did not vote for the R canidate. Oh ye, the important part.. they just did not vote for the R, I said nothing aboout who they did vote for.

And that still does not change the main point of how do you get anything if you grow the coalition even further

Once again, taking even 7% o the GOP away from the party would completely crush them.

That turns Georgia reliably blue. That puts Texas as a true toss-up state. That means the Blue Wall is basically untouchable. Arizona is blue. Nevada is solidly blue. North Carolina is blue. Ohio is a toss-up, and has to be strongly defended.

The GOP would struggle to find 200 EV, much less 270.

[Shadowferal]

What would be an example of that?

Democratic and liberal support for John McCain

Cindy McCain details husband’s friendship with Biden for DNC

Cindy McCain Joins Biden-Harris Transition Team’s Advisory Board

The Trevor Project will honor the famous Republican with its Hero Award tonight because of her advocacy on behalf of LGBT people.

[JohnBrown1917]

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm well aware of his history, his capture, his Beach Boy's cover, his financial crime, and all the rest.

The "blue dog" thing is also largely non-existent.

And? They still exist, he could have joined the dems himself. Why are you defending this racist dickhead? WHenever somebody else defends one you freak out, is this one of these cases where you pick and choose when its okay to carry water for racist shitstains?

It's not about making everyone happy... there's only two parties. It's about making enough people content enough to vote for your particular party. That's why there's no real need to listen to the warnings from people who have zero skin in the game. You cannot vote, and you live thousands of miles away. Why should the GOP or the Democrats care who you would, and would not support?

This is not about me, this is about how its supposed to work. Winning is all that matters in your mind, but what, again, is the point of winning if it does not change anything because a coalition that consists of both the centreleft to far right will not agree on anything in the house or senate.


And the rest of the world has a lot of skin in the game due to the USs love of war.. which is something you seem to love defending by defending the likes of McCain.

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I'm not ignoring anything. I'm well aware of his history, his capture, his Beach Boy's cover, his financial crime, and all the rest.

The "blue dog" thing is also largely non-existent.

It's not about making everyone happy... there's only two parties. It's about making enough people content enough to vote for your particular party. That's why there's no real need to listen to the warnings from people who have zero skin in the game. You cannot vote, and you live thousands of miles away. Why should the GOP or the Democrats care who you would, and would not support?

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Once again, taking even 7% o the GOP away from the party would completely crush them.

That turns Georgia reliably blue. That puts Texas as a true toss-up state. That means the Blue Wall is basically untouchable. Arizona is blue. Nevada is solidly blue. North Carolina is blue. Ohio is a toss-up, and has to be strongly defended.

The GOP would struggle to find 200 EV, much less 270.

Its like you missed the whole point of my post.. this always happens, the % share even went up.


jessus fuck.

[DKjaigen]

That story was somewhat sensationalist and inaccurate.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/0...und-the-police

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/...-not-staffing/


It does not matter what they do with tanks or any other surplus equipment. The 'Defund Police' was positioned as a means to shift funding from those resources to other resources. Not necessarily tied to office budgeting, staffing, or new hires.

$8 million from the police department toward violence prevention and other programs — but will keep the mayor’s targeted staffing levels for sworn officers intact, averting a possible veto.


Seems too me that the officers ability to do their job was crippled.

"Don't spend money on this, put it toward this instead". Communities ought to and do have a say in how their community's money is spent. As I said, it was simply some citizens saying they didn't want the police department's budget allocated to certain things.

No communities get to say jack shit. If they want change then vote a person into power that can make that change happen. The bigger issue is how flat out stupid this is. I approve any measure to better the living standards of people so they no longer need to resort to crime.This however takes years and untill then you need the police. You would think this kind of common sense would be applied.

They don't need a tank or surplus assault rifles for investigations. If they do, then there is likely a problem beyond 'defunding'.

Again, there was no debacle. That wording is wrong.

Police have recorded 532 gunshot victims this year as of last Thursday, more than double the same period a year ago. Carjackings have also spiked to 375 so far this year, up 331% from the same period last year. Violent crimes have topped 5,100, compared with just over 4,000 for the same period in 2019.


This is what i call a debacle you may disagree. And likely the end of the defund the police movement. Biden is soon to be president and BLM is no longer relevant

[Shadowferal]

The moderate wing of a fascist party, who gives a fuck?

As opposed to some brit wannabe communist who is helpless in convincing anyone of any of his arguments...ever.

[Dezerte]

Tell your children too get a comfortable government job otherwise they are fucked in the future. Globalism gives corporations way to much economic and political power.

It doesn't really matter what I think about globalism, if I had to answer I see it both as an extension of capitalism and "imperialistic" behaviour. But it can also be used as a tool to further social democratic ideals as well (e.g. combatting inequality, climate change, tax havens etc). I work with it because I don't think there's any point in resisting it, it's like resisting human nature - someone will always try to fill the power vacuum, so why not try and fill it yourself?

And Trump is not someone who represents that, at all. And Biden may not be on board with all those things, but some of them he will be.

[DKjaigen]

You do know you are a fervent supporter of the guy that gave one of the largest tax cuts to corporations right? he also gave billions to fortune 500 companies using his "small" business loan program.

Irrelevant nitpicking. The biggest decline of the middle class is because is how trade between america and china was used by the corporations. Biden has no problem on shipping all the well paying middle class jobs straight to china.

[Machismo]

And? They still exist, he could have joined the dems himself. Why are you defending this racist dickhead? WHenever somebody else defends one you freak out, is this one of these cases where you pick and choose when its okay to carry water for racist shitstains?



This is not about me, this is about how its supposed to work. Winning is all that matters in your mind, but what, again, is the point of winning if it does not change anything because a coalition that consists of both the centreleft to far right will not agree on anything in the house or senate.


And the rest of the world has a lot of skin in the game due to the USs love of war.. which is something you seem to love defending by defending the likes of McCain.

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Its like you missed the whole point of my post.. this always happens, the % share even went up.


jessus fuck.

The dude is dead... He cannot join the Democrats. He was a moderate, no matter what you think. Do I like the guy? Not really. Do I think he was a far-right Nazi? Nope.

This is absolutely about you. In the U.S., the goal is to only beat one other competitor. That's it. So, anything that can be done to get even a few votes, is huge.

I didn't miss your point at all, I simply disagree with it. I'm well aware that Trump got 93% approval from the GOP. If you didn't notice, people have been lying about their support of Trump, especially in 2016. If there are any sane voices in the GOP left, then getting them to switch to the Democrats would be a huge victory for them.

Once again, this is about you, because you have shown yourself to be a political anarchist, right with Rochana. Your whole goal has been to try and muddy the waters, and sow discord. In essence, you are a Trump supporter, just like Rochana is. Why should any American voter give a shit what a foreign political anarchist and Trump shill says?

[DKjaigen]

It doesn't really matter what I think about globalism, if I had to answer I see it both as an extension of capitalism and "imperialistic" behaviour. But it can also be used as a tool to further social democratic ideals as well (e.g. combatting inequality, climate change, tax havens etc). I work with it because I don't think there's any point in resisting it, it's like resisting human nature - someone will always try to fill the power vacuum, so why not try and fill it yourself?

And yet the opposite is happening.

[Machismo]

$8 million from the police department toward violence prevention and other programs — but will keep the mayor’s targeted staffing levels for sworn officers intact, averting a possible veto.


Seems too me that the officers ability to do their job was crippled.



No communities get to say jack shit. If they want change then vote a person into power that can make that change happen. The bigger issue is how flat out stupid this is. I approve any measure to better the living standards of people so they no longer need to resort to crime.This however takes years and untill then you need the police. You would think this kind of common sense would be applied.



Police have recorded 532 gunshot victims this year as of last Thursday, more than double the same period a year ago. Carjackings have also spiked to 375 so far this year, up 331% from the same period last year. Violent crimes have topped 5,100, compared with just over 4,000 for the same period in 2019.


This is what i call a debacle you may disagree. And likely the end of the defund the police movement. Biden is soon to be president and BLM is no longer relevant

Maybe those officers should have done their fucking jobs.

just like any government agency, if they are not going to do their jobs, then paying them is unnecessary.

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Irrelevant nitpicking. The biggest decline of the middle class is because is how trade between america and china was used by the corporations. Biden has no problem on shipping all the well paying middle class jobs straight to china.

It's not irrelevant, it shows you to be a lying hypocrite on the matter.

Then again, that's the problem when you embrace national socialism.

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And yet the opposite is happening.

Well, that's thanks to people like you and Trump... so...

[DKjaigen]

Ye, so keep voting for the party that only gives them even more power, great thinking.
Almost like socialism could solve this little problem of them having too much power.

The GOP is not a single entity. Just like their is clear divide between Biden and Sanders.

[Dezerte]

And yet the opposite is happening.

Because they elected Trump, yes. Biden will at least work on some of those issues. And perhaps in a few decades the US will have grown enough to be ready for a social democratic leader. Gradual change is what will win out in the end I believe.

[Machismo]

The GOP is not a single entity. Just like their is clear divide between Biden and Sanders.

93% of the GOP supported a fucking Nazi.

That's not much of a divide.

[JohnBrown1917]

The GOP is not a single entity. Just like their is clear divide between Biden and Sanders.

Yet they all agree on the key points of making love to big bussiness. Well.. maybe unless you go for the really hardcore nazis.

[Shadowferal]

93%?
If that perhaps reflects the Senate then it's...juuust enough to work with.

[JohnBrown1917]

Irrelevant nitpicking. The biggest decline of the middle class is because is how trade between america and china was used by the corporations. Biden has no problem on shipping all the well paying middle class jobs straight to china.

and the Gop will just strip them off any protections so that big bussiness can even further expliot them.

[Shadowferal]

and the Gop will just strip them off any protections so that big bussiness can even further expliot them.

And how will that happen now?

[Draco-Onis]

Irrelevant nitpicking. The biggest decline of the middle class is because is how trade between america and china was used by the corporations. Biden has no problem on shipping all the well paying middle class jobs straight to china.

Those things are called facts here's another one for you the right wing for decades pushed free trade invisible hand of the market and all that. The USMCA changed very little Trump is the biggest globalist out there your red hat is made in China.

That's not even going into how the decline of the middle class is far more complex. I will give you a hint other countries have free trade but their middle class hasn't gotten fucked in the process. At least learn the basics instead of blindly spitting campaign lines.

[Mehrunes]

So its not as black and white as people wish to think of that time period, hittler didn't stand up looking to get his first members elected to parliment by screaming about gassing Jews, if people bothered to look at the election posters the nazis produced in 1932, there are very few ive managed to find that even todays censors would block, and most of his propaganda isnt much different from whats produced by many partys across the western world today. Hitler's campaign focused on the economic issues of Germany, and used family motifs, conservative values mixed with a heavy use of the german worker and working class imagery taking charge over the elite and the rich, not all that dismilar from the drain the swamp propaganda of trump tbh.

Except Mein Kampf was released years before that election and in it Hitler was already railing how the sacrifice of German soldiers at the front would not have been in vain if thousands of "Hebrew corrupters" had been killed at the start of the war. To make your point even weaker, killed specifically by using poison gas on them. The Germans just merrily ignored that.

What were Nazis then ? You dismiss what he said but provide no evidence or explanation for such dismissal. All of Germany turned racist all of a sudden when they elected Hitler ?

All of a sudden? No. But that's precisely why the idea that Hitler's rise to power was a natural reaction to Versailles is horseshit. Hitler was the natural next stage of combining the prior millennium of German history with the propaganda machine of WWI German Empire that was, until the very end of WWI, feeding its population bullshit about how the great German nation is on the eve of victory (which made the Germans rather confused when Germany "suddenly" lost).

Because Germans had supremacist tendencies long before Hitler was even a sperm in his father's ballsack. The Second Reich and the Kingdom of Prussia spent most of their treason-based existence brutally Germanizing the "lesser people" of the empire and even the HRE doesn't have its hands clean in that department.

And when you get a nation convinced that they should have won WWI, which then lead to delusions about how you must have been betrayed from within ("obviously" by the "lesser people" you so "generously" tried to turn into "cultured" Germans) in order to lose it, switching gears from Germinizing the Untermensch to eradicating the Untermensch was a natural progression.

Especially when you get a punch of Nazis "just saying as it is" then utilizing that paranoia and knocking the stab in the back myth into the 12th gear with their populism.

Curious that I learned during my scholarship in France that the treaty of Versailles was considered as a humiliation of Germany because it had to endorsed all responsabilities of the WW1 (among all other things).

And? The mere fact of losing a war, or even individual battles, was seen as humiliating back then, as it lowered the nation's prestige. Political humiliation like having to accept blame for a war you lost does not cause genocidal rage in normal people.

You don't even have to get that far: The problem with versailles was that it stated that the war was germanys fault and they had to pay a lot. We can now debate if it was harsher than others or not, but it doesn't matter:

At the time the Nazis came to power the treaty was already heavily modified in favor of Germany (heavy reduction in payments, occupation, etc.) the ministers of exterior of France and Germany even got the Nobel Peace Prize for it - i think 1926..

So the Nazis used a lie to sell the people something that wasn't true anymore at least half a decade.

Speaking of the payment, the Germans were never really expected to pay the C bonds part of the whole thing. Then, as you said, the payment they were actually paying was reduced on top of that. And even that aside, it's not the reparations that fucked the German economy, but the global recession and Germany's handling of it, i.e. the reluctance to drop the gold standard. Which wasn't even unique to them, all the countries that were slower to drop the gold standard were affected more harshly by the Great Depression, whether they were paying reparations or not.

I think Brest-Litovsk is not a good example as it was void 6 months later anyway, so it doesn't had such a lasting impact on the memory of society (compare to the occupation of the Rheinland)

Made void how? Russia lost a third of its population and half of its industrialized territory. From the territories it lost , it regained only eastern Ukraine and most of Belarus in relatively short time. They had to wait till the start of WWII to get the rest back. Germany only had the Rhineland demilitarized and it took the Nazis less time to remedy even that than it took Russia to regain most of its lost territory.

[Endus]

Irrelevant nitpicking. The biggest decline of the middle class is because is how trade between america and china was used by the corporations. Biden has no problem on shipping all the well paying middle class jobs straight to china.

Biden has no capacity to ship jobs overseas. Any measure he could take to try and prevent jobs being moved overseas would, necessarily, harm the American economy. Tariffs and such to disincentivize outsourcing really only serve to increase prices for American consumers. "Globalism" is essentially a fact of life, not a political opinion, and it's been that way for decades.

Also, those jobs being shipped overseas largely aren't middle class. Jobs get shipped overseas because the labor required is cheap, and they can get it a little bit cheaper in another country.

What you're really complaining about unchecked capitalism, not Democrats. The shrinking middle class is a developed nation problem, not an American problem; https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/11/busin...ort/index.html The villain is capitalist economics, which encourages wealth to pool at the top, leading the middle and working classes to stretch their ever-shrinking portion of the pie wider and wider. You'd have to aim for policies which tax the rich strongly, lighten burdens on the lower and middle classes, and provide greater support for those in need. In other words, what the Democratic platform basically proposes. Even if you want to argue it doesn't go far enough, it's a big step from the status quo Trump has dug the country into, and nobody's argued it's the endpoint target, just the target for the next four years.