So where do the spirit healers come from?

[Pyrium]

Coming into SL i thought they would be kyrians or something? are they? or are they something else entirely.

[Raetary]

Yes, they are Kyrians.

[Varolyn]

They used to be a type of Val'kyr back in Legion but blizz has now changed them into a type of Kyrian. Now it appears Odyn was heavily inspired by the Kyrian when creating the Val'kyr... so the relation does exist. But Spirit Healers are just Kyrians now.

[Al Gorefiend]

They used to be a type of Val'kyr back in Legion but blizz has now changed them into a type of Kyrian. Now it appears Odyn was heavily inspired by the Kyrian when creating the Val'kyr... so the relation does exist. But Spirit Healers are just Kyrians now.

Spirit healers have always been Kyrian. the only lore revelation in SL was giving them a name and a zone with some backstory.

Val'kyr are Diet Kyrian created by Odyn when he sacrificed his eye to gaze upon the afterlife and for a yet unknown reason didn't like what he saw and created Val'kyr in his image to ferry the Vrykul into his own rendition of an afterlife - his Valhalla.

[Varolyn]

Spirit healers have always been Kyrian. the only lore revelation in SL was giving them a name and a zone with some backstory.

Val'kyr are Diet Kyrian created by Odyn when he sacrificed his eye to gaze upon the afterlife and for a yet unknown reason didn't like what he saw and created Val'kyr in his image to ferry the Vrykul into his own rendition of an afterlife - his Valhalla.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Spirit_Healer

If you go to the Notes and Trivia part of the page, it states that Chronicles Volume 1 heavily implied that Spirit Healers were Val'kyr that split from Odin. Kyrians did not exist back then, Kyrians now being spirit healers is either blizz expanding the lore or a retcon, depending on how you look at it.

[huth]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Spirit_Healer

If you go to the Notes and Trivia part of the page, it states that Chronicles Volume 1 heavily implied that Spirit Healers were Val'kyr that split from Odin. Kyrians did not exist back then, Kyrians now being spirit healers is either blizz expanding the lore or a retcon, depending on how you look at it.

Definitely an expansion. The Chronicle blurb actually only says that the Val'kyr went into the Shadowlands and sometimes help people back to life. That could be read as them being Spirit Healers, but could just as easily just mean they do something similar while being unrelated. We've had a bunch of non-Spirit Healer beings bringing us back to life over the years, after all.

[Adoxe]

they are kyrians yes

- - - Updated - - -

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Spirit_Healer

If you go to the Notes and Trivia part of the page, it states that Chronicles Volume 1 heavily implied that Spirit Healers were Val'kyr that split from Odin. Kyrians did not exist back then, Kyrians now being spirit healers is either blizz expanding the lore or a retcon, depending on how you look at it.

seeing as how val'KYR are also Kyrian, it remains the same thing

[tommyhil622]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Spirit_Healer

If you go to the Notes and Trivia part of the page, it states that Chronicles Volume 1 heavily implied that Spirit Healers were Val'kyr that split from Odin. Kyrians did not exist back then, Kyrians now being spirit healers is either blizz expanding the lore or a retcon, depending on how you look at it.

Definitely a retcon. But I like the current lore for spirit healers/Kryians better than what Chronicles touched upon. So in this instance I welcome it.

[Unbelievable]

Coming into SL i thought they would be kyrians or something? are they? or are they something else entirely.

"World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1 mentions that some Val'kyr split from the Valarjar after Odyn and his forces were imprisoned within the Halls of Valor and disappeared into the Shadowlands to watch over the physical world and occasionally guide the dead back to the realm of the living,[7] implying that they became the spirit healers. However, Shadowlands revealed that spirit healers are actually kyrian".

seeing as how val'KYR are also Kyrian, it remains the same thing

They are not Kyrians. They are inspired by them.

[bagina]

Spirit healers have always been Kyrian. the only lore revelation in SL was giving them a name and a zone with some backstory.

Val'kyr are Diet Kyrian created by Odyn when he sacrificed his eye to gaze upon the afterlife and for a yet unknown reason didn't like what he saw and created Val'kyr in his image to ferry the Vrykul into his own rendition of an afterlife - his Valhalla.

Valkyr are just as if not more powerful than Kyrians, I wouldn't call them "diet-Kyrians"

[Unbelievable]

This is an example of a well done "retcon" IMO, as in that the previous lore isn't broken, even though it does change the previous narrative.

How is the previous lore not broken?

Valkyr are just as if not more powerful than Kyrians, I wouldn't call them "diet-Kyrians"

What is this based on?

[huth]

Basically answered here:



Before the lore said: Spirit Healers ≈ Val'kyr

New lore says Spirit Healers = Kyrian but also that Val'kyr ≈ Kyrian so in the end Spirit Healers ≈ Kyrian is still valid

Frankly, it seems most people are vastly overestimating how strongly the Chronicle really implied things. From our knowledge back then, it did sound like it was confirming the Spirit Healers to be Val'kyr, but it didn't actually ever state it, only that they sometimes help souls back to life.

[tommyhil622]

I just think we as readers/gamers/etc aren't tasked to be gatekeepers of the lore. It's ok if things are retconned or changed. We don't have to rationalize it artificially make it work, imo the retcons make it work better. Regardless of what Chronicles says. It really doesn't matter, what matters now is that Kryians now exist and spirit healers are Kryians that go through the process of becoming spirit healers.

[bagina]

What is this based on?

Frankly? From what we've seen so far. Valkyr do what Kyrians do and more. They are able to mass ressurect souls at will, they effortlessly traverse between realms, they can appear in the physical world as well as the spirt one, something Kyrians don't do afaik? And just in general, they're more badass, without the baggage of being in a crazy cult and with a way more awesome leader.

[Unbelievable]

Basically answered here:



Before the lore said: Spirit Healers ≈ Val'kyr

New lore says Spirit Healers = Kyrian but also that Val'kyr ≈ Kyrian so in the end Spirit Healers ≈ Kyrian is still valid

Inspired by Kyrian doesn't make them Kyrians.

The only reason people think the lore isn't retconned is because of their similarities in appearance and purpose.

Frankly, it seems most people are vastly overestimating how strongly the Chronicle really implied things. From our knowledge back then, it did sound like it was confirming the Spirit Healers to be Val'kyr, but it didn't actually ever state it, only that they sometimes help souls back to life.

Which, is the role of Spirit Healers.

Frankly? From what we've seen so far. Valkyr do what Kyrians do and more. They are able to mass ressurect souls at will, they effortlessly traverse between realms, they can appear in the physical world as well as the spirt one, something Kyrians don't do afaik? And just in general, they're more badass, without the baggage of being in a crazy cult and with a way more awesome leader.

You have to take into consideration that they are based on the Kyrians - not the other way around. So, one can assume that the Kyrians can do, whatever, Val'kyr can and more.

[Unbelievable]

Yes, that's why I differentiated between ≈ and =


I'm not saying it's not a retcon, I'm saying it's a retcon done well - blasphemy on MMOC, I know...

Those are sketchy mathematics.

It is a, pretty, smooth transition, though.

[huth]

Which, is the role of Spirit Healers.

Actually, it isn't. Their main job is calling Bearers to where they're needed. They're also not the only ones we've seen doing this.

[Unbelievable]

Actually, it isn't. Their main job is calling Bearers to where they're needed. They're also not the only ones we've seen doing this.

"Spirit Healers are angelic beings usually encountered at a graveyard after death. These floating figures of death and rebirth return people to life where their spirit stands.The Spirit Healers are Watchers, kyrian whose role is to eternally evaluate souls within the Veil. They are called to those who die to peer into the soul's inner self and evaluate whether they are ready to be dead. If the Watchers deem the soul ready, they will call forth a kyrian Bearer to come and bring their soul to the Shadowlands. If they aren't ready, the Watchers return them to life.

Know the difference.

"They're also not the only ones we've seen doing this." - mechanically, not lore-wise.

[huth]

"Spirit Healers are angelic beings usually encountered at a graveyard after death. These floating figures of death and rebirth return people to life where their spirit stands.The Spirit Healers are Watchers, kyrian whose role is to eternally evaluate souls within the Veil. They are called to those who die to peer into the soul's inner self and evaluate whether they are ready to be dead. If the Watchers deem the soul ready, they will call forth a kyrian Bearer to come and bring their soul to the Shadowlands. If they aren't ready, the Watchers return them to life.

Know the difference.

"They're also not the only ones we've seen doing this." - mechanically, not lore-wise.

You're mixing up game mechanics and lore yourself there. The first part is what they do in the game. And it's shown pretty clearly that the majority of time, they either call a Bearer or decide they aren't responsible due to some other power being involved.

And you're the one claiming it's only mechanics, while providing no actual evidence.

[Unbelievable]

You're mixing up game mechanics and lore yourself there. The first part is what they do in the game. And it's shown pretty clearly that the majority of time, they either call a Bearer or decide they aren't responsible due to some other power being involved.

And you're the one claiming it's only mechanics, while providing no actual evidence.

World of Warcraft Official Strategy Guide, pg. 28

A deep dive into Bastion, the Shadowlands realm of selflessness and greater purpose

Lore.

I, already, posted about the Deep Sea Murloc, Naaru, Val'kyr, Dread raven, Human & Tauren (battleground spirit guides) and Bwonsamdi Spirit Healers, in that other thread, about the winter queen origins, in which you agreed they were game mechanics, not lore.