Solution for M+ leavers....

[Chloe the Maid]

I think marking their names with a (*) or with red/any other color for days to one week would make it a good start.
An m+ leaver shouldn't be able to get into groups easily.

[Aurosh]

Honestly, any attempts to deal with negative player behavior usually results in alternative negative behaviour that was worse than the original problem they tried to fix.

Instead of punishing the leavers.
Allow people to resume timed out keys with other players. Missed keys don't go on leaderboard to prevent abuse, but do give loot/vault.

Give the key lead the option to automatically deplete the timer when a player leaves. You'd have to distinguish people leaving from people getting kicked, cause I could easily see some asshole kicking a pug right before the final boss just to throw some gear at a friend.

The only real negative I can see there is that it'd be a lot easier for the groups selling gear, but it's not like that's difficult to do for a whole dungeon as opposed to one boss as is.

Thats the point though. You do a 15 key and shortly before the end you kick a dps and sell the rewards to someone. Or kick 2 dps and invite guild mates.

The level of toxic behaviour would be the same, just different. Players getting kicked for weird reasons would become a big thing...

[crazyman2]

Thats the point though. You do a 15 key and shortly before the end you kick a dps and sell the rewards to someone. Or kick 2 dps and invite guild mates.

The level of toxic behaviour would be the same, just different. Players getting kicked for weird reasons would become a big thing...

The original post dealt with that - you'd have to track people being kicked as a separate event from people dropping group.
Removal/kicking kills a key, dropped group allows it to be resumed.

With that said, you'd probably see an uptick in toxic idiots refusing to drop group and forcing people to kick them. That can and should be dealt with by player bans, but I can't see a clean automated solution to the problem. And really, even if they didn't enforce anything to that effect, it's in no way worse than the current system.
If somebody's toxic
1. They can leave. Great, that's why this system should be in place.

2. They can stay in the group and go off to oribos or whatever and taunt the other party members about not resuming the key.
So the toxic individual can still kill the key, but it has functionally the same impact as on live when they could just drop group to kill it.

3. They can stay in the group and grief, preventing the 4 man from finishing. The rest of the group can still kick you and finish, but they can't bring in help... which is the same as it is on live.

[arr0gance]

The original post dealt with that - you'd have to track people being kicked as a separate event from people dropping group.
Removal/kicking kills a key, dropped group allows it to be resumed.

With that said, you'd probably see an uptick in toxic idiots refusing to drop group and forcing people to kick them. That can and should be dealt with by player bans, but I can't see a clean automated solution to the problem. And really, even if they didn't enforce anything to that effect, it's in no way worse than the current system.
If somebody's toxic
1. They can leave. Great, that's why this system should be in place.

2. They can stay in the group and go off to oribos or whatever and taunt the other party members about not resuming the key.
So the toxic individual can still kill the key, but it has functionally the same impact as on live when they could just drop group to kill it.

3. They can stay in the group and grief, preventing the 4 man from finishing. The rest of the group can still kick you and finish, but they can't bring in help... which is the same as it is on live.

I would love to live in the fantasy world you do where people wouldn't immediately abuse the ever living shit out of your terrible idea.

[Swnem]

Simple solution: remove "concept of M+ KEYS".

Instead, let us choose which dungeon we want to do and on what level.

For example: if you want to farm MIST +15, then you should be able to enter that dungeon, select desired difficulty and that's it!

Instead, we have M+ "keys" which are pure RNG and if you dare to pug them, you lose 20-30 mins to form "solid pug group" with HIGH risk of someone making any sort of mistake which might cause a wipe and then some hothead leaving it and therefor deplating your key.

Extremely bad concept imo. Punishing you for wanting to play the game?! FOR REAL?!

I agree. That would solve the problem. The key situation is stupid. The difficulty should be the gate.

[Jotaux]

I would love to live in the fantasy world you do where people wouldn't immediately abuse the ever living shit out of your terrible idea.

How would it be abused?

[arr0gance]

How would it be abused?

Instead of seeing hundreds and thousands of players selling just +15 runs, you'll now have an equal number of people selling depleted 14/15s for gear and The Great Vault rewards. This solution suffers from the very problem the guy who suggested it would have: It creates more problems than it solves.

[Jotaux]

Instead of seeing hundreds and thousands of players selling just +15 runs, you'll now have an equal number of people selling depleted 14/15s for gear and The Great Vault rewards. This solution suffers from the very problem the guy who suggested it would have: It creates more problems than it solves.

You could only bring someone else in if someone from the group leaves, isn't kicked. If its a 5 man just selling the last boss instead of carrying them through the dungeon, tbh I couldn't care less. Other people selling vault slots, or getting gear doesn't hurt me, someone leaving a key and wasting my time does.

[Grimbold21]

I thought storming was the most annoying thing ever, but spiteful with tanks thinking they're playing on a tournament is ridiculous, especially on a healer.

They have a hard time understanding that more often than not, the ghosts keep you in combat, and with pug dpsers getting hit often, the healer is basically oom for 2 or 3 packs.

This week is probably the week where I failed the most keys

[ellieg]

You could only bring someone else in if someone from the group leaves, isn't kicked. If its a 5 man just selling the last boss instead of carrying them through the dungeon, tbh I couldn't care less. Other people selling vault slots, or getting gear doesn't hurt me, someone leaving a key and wasting my time does.

So then 4/5 sit at the end of dungeon waiting for 5th to leave for 30 minutes. Then sell the item

[crazyman2]

So then 4/5 sit at the end of dungeon waiting for 5th to leave for 30 minutes. Then sell the item

Eh, that probably crosses the line from toxic into reportable griefing.

And why would you run 30 minutes of a dungeon with someone and spend an additional 30 minutes to grief them when you could have just sold the original key to the buyer and gotten your gold in half the time it took you to be an asshole.

[Zarvel]

Ok it is either some people here reply before reading everything or too dumb to understand.


THE ONE WHO DIED IS THE ONE WHO LEFT AND CAUSED THE KEY AND RUN TO BE RUINED BECAUSE HE FAILED TO DODGE BASIC MECHANIC FROM THE FIRST BOSS IN THE DUNGEON. He kept dying and he was the only pug in the group the rest 4 of the group were me and 3 friends.


I even stated in the description about no leavers please. How the hell is that even my fault ? typical mmo champ members who just reply for the sake of writing a reply without even fucking understanding the topic itself?

I really wouldn't bother reading too much into the responses of such people. It's obvious they made no effort to read or understand the situation presented in the OP.
These days discussions are less based on logic and more around who can come off looking better with the most passive and neutral opinion on the internet. Internet brownie points, so to speak, so they'll contradict your view as an OP and pummel anything you say into the ground just to add to their circlejerk of opinions.

As for the dude who left your key, yes, I've personally seen it happen more often than I'd like when running low keys on my alts that I'm gearing up. It's not as uncommon as people in this thread seem to want to present. It's actually quite common in the pug scene in keys ranging anywhere from +7s to +15s. People earlier, at least till mid BFA were leaving pug keys cuz of toxic behavior due to shit happening in their keys, but lately I've noticed a trend of people leaving keys out of personal embarrassment caused by their personal failures in the keys. More often than not its tanks and heals than dps though, since their mistakes are even more apparent and they often cannot make a proper excuse for it and just leave before anyone can criticize or, god forbid, help them.

This kind of behavior is definitely being fueled by the pointless and absolutely unnecessary pressure players running keys put themselves under because they do not understand how the timers work. If you do things calmly and in a somewhat coherent manner, you can time every dungeon at appropriate gear levels, but, the moment these people let even a small slither of pressure in, they start making small but noticeable mistakes that start adding up to the demise of a key.
Just the other day when I was running a 15 spires on an alt I was gearing, we were going along smoothly at the start of the dungeon - we killed the first 2 packs together with lust - no problem. Then, we were killing the goliath solo. Now, the situation we were in was we were running with an IRL monk healer friend of mine with an ilv of 209, so as expected he needed a bit of a mana break to top the group off while grievous was ticking after the first 2 packs big pull. The tank however, decides that the solo goliath wasn't enough, and decided to chain into the final pack before the first flight point in the dungeon. Under normal circumstances, it would be no problem at all, but this tank did not read the situation with the healer mana or how much harder he was just about to make everything with that next pull before people were topped off. As expected, it almost caused a wipe that the tank and a pug dps then blamed the healer for, that was no fault of his. Ok, 1 bad situation, but not something that would end the key, so me and the heal say nothing, and we move on.
Next, we arrive at the pack before the first boss, where if you don't cc 1 of the mobs, you're bound to spawn a pride mid-pull. So, being the key holder and party lead, I ask the hunter in the group to CC the mender, which he promptly did. Guess what the tank proceeds to do - Yes, he chucks his avenger's shield into the middle of the pack, hitting the mender and breaking the CC, bringing the whole group onto us. Keep in mind, this is a pack that has 2 mobs casting Dark Lash onto random people in the group, 1 mender who has multiple spells that need to be interrupted, and the goliath. Just by adding the mender into this pull, the tank has needlessly complicated this pull and caused a wipe when the pride eventually spawned with the goliath still alive and the tank getting chunked as a result. Now, had we just kept the mender CC'd as planned, and spawned the pride with 1 less casting mob to interrupt, the group would be more stable before engaging the mender and the boss, hence saving time. Instead, we waste a lot of time on self heals and kiting rather than just bursting the pack down like you normally would without a sweat.
2 mistakes by the tank so far, which in his mind were not mistakes but an attempt at saving time on the key. But his fatal mistake was not reading the strengths and weaknesses of the group and overdoing and overburdening everyone, which ended up costing time in the key instead. Situations like these happen so often because people are always under an artificial pressure to time a key faster than it needs to be. That is a problem the developers can address by changing the incentivization in keys. The Devs throwing their hands up and saying "its a community problem" is total nonsense, and goes to show the C tier quality of the game development team they have working at blizzard.

[RobertoCarlos]

I really wouldn't bother reading too much into the responses of such people. It's obvious they made no effort to read or understand the situation presented in the OP.
These days discussions are less based on logic and more around who can come off looking better with the most passive and neutral opinion on the internet. Internet brownie points, so to speak, so they'll contradict your view as an OP and pummel anything you say into the ground just to add to their circlejerk of opinions.

As for the dude who left your key, yes, I've personally seen it happen more often than I'd like when running low keys on my alts that I'm gearing up. It's not as uncommon as people in this thread seem to want to present. It's actually quite common in the pug scene in keys ranging anywhere from +7s to +15s. People earlier, at least till mid BFA were leaving pug keys cuz of toxic behavior due to shit happening in their keys, but lately I've noticed a trend of people leaving keys out of personal embarrassment caused by their personal failures in the keys. More often than not its tanks and heals than dps though, since their mistakes are even more apparent and they often cannot make a proper excuse for it and just leave before anyone can criticize or, god forbid, help them.

This kind of behavior is definitely being fueled by the pointless and absolutely unnecessary pressure players running keys put themselves under because they do not understand how the timers work. If you do things calmly and in a somewhat coherent manner, you can time every dungeon at appropriate gear levels, but, the moment these people let even a small slither of pressure in, they start making small but noticeable mistakes that start adding up to the demise of a key.
Just the other day when I was running a 15 spires on an alt I was gearing, we were going along smoothly at the start of the dungeon - we killed the first 2 packs together with lust - no problem. Then, we were killing the goliath solo. Now, the situation we were in was we were running with an IRL monk healer friend of mine with an ilv of 209, so as expected he needed a bit of a mana break to top the group off while grievous was ticking after the first 2 packs big pull. The tank however, decides that the solo goliath wasn't enough, and decided to chain into the final pack before the first flight point in the dungeon. Under normal circumstances, it would be no problem at all, but this tank did not read the situation with the healer mana or how much harder he was just about to make everything with that next pull before people were topped off. As expected, it almost caused a wipe that the tank and a pug dps then blamed the healer for, that was no fault of his. Ok, 1 bad situation, but not something that would end the key, so me and the heal say nothing, and we move on.
Next, we arrive at the pack before the first boss, where if you don't cc 1 of the mobs, you're bound to spawn a pride mid-pull. So, being the key holder and party lead, I ask the hunter in the group to CC the mender, which he promptly did. Guess what the tank proceeds to do - Yes, he chucks his avenger's shield into the middle of the pack, hitting the mender and breaking the CC, bringing the whole group onto us. Keep in mind, this is a pack that has 2 mobs casting Dark Lash onto random people in the group, 1 mender who has multiple spells that need to be interrupted, and the goliath. Just by adding the mender into this pull, the tank has needlessly complicated this pull and caused a wipe when the pride eventually spawned with the goliath still alive and the tank getting chunked as a result. Now, had we just kept the mender CC'd as planned, and spawned the pride with 1 less casting mob to interrupt, the group would be more stable before engaging the mender and the boss, hence saving time. Instead, we waste a lot of time on self heals and kiting rather than just bursting the pack down like you normally would without a sweat.
2 mistakes by the tank so far, which in his mind were not mistakes but an attempt at saving time on the key. But his fatal mistake was not reading the strengths and weaknesses of the group and overdoing and overburdening everyone, which ended up costing time in the key instead. Situations like these happen so often because people are always under an artificial pressure to time a key faster than it needs to be. That is a problem the developers can address by changing the incentivization in keys. The Devs throwing their hands up and saying "its a community problem" is total nonsense, and goes to show the C tier quality of the game development team they have working at blizzard.

Thats an awful lot of text just to say "tanks are important"

Even more so with needing to know the routes thanks to seasonal affix's that seem to always rely on tanks knowing perfect routes, Which seem to change from person to person depending on what success/failure they've had in the past.

[odamienskii]

Raider IO just shows what people completed.

What we need is like Yelp reviews for players.

This is one of the best ideas ive ever heard

[Zarvel]

Thats an awful lot of text just to say "tanks are important"

How you came to that conclusion/summation is beyond me. The tank was just the story device, I was only talking about the artificial pressures of m+ using said device.
Although, you kinda ironically just proved the first part of my response about the kind of people on these forums. Heh

[thunderdragon2]

sadly what blizzard needs to do is punish leavers by not letting them in a key for the remainder of the day.

if a person dosent want to finish a key because it'll be 1 min out of time they shouldn't be doing m+ rio and similar metric HAVE to go

[Eazy]

It amazes me that people here just don't know how to play this game. Pugging was always risky and you have to deal with it. There's no ideal system how to deal with leavers. There will be plenty of by-passes and abuses. Most(if not all?) of you guys ideas are wrong and completely out of touch. Are you guys even thinking through about them?

Only baddies would like to see leavers punished.
It's like you all expect other people to be punished because they don't want to boost you. If you're good enough you'll be getting in the same group(the same level key) in no-time. Most of the people who want leavers to be punished are the ones who are just bad in the game and won't expect others to invite them. It's like they were miraculously invited to the Key that was above their skill level and suddenly they lost their boosting group and no longer expect others to invite them once again because they are just too weak.

In b4 "omg they have high expectation ;-((("
Just make your own group. If you cannot, then there's a simple answer why - because people don't want to boost you.
If you cannot get your key higher then there's a one problem - you.

sadly what blizzard needs to do is punish leavers by not letting them in a key for the remainder of the day.

That's a stupid idea.

What about people trolling? Like getting in a group and then AFK in the middle of the M+?
Or just leave the M+ immediately because they don't care about the punishment?
Plenty of people would get CD on their mythic dungeons because of others.

[ellieg]

This is one of the best ideas ive ever heard

Tanks does a different route than im used to. "Shit fuckin tank doesn't know where he's going"

Dps has their interrupt on cd when another important spell gets cast and wipes thr groups. All 3 dps get "just fuckin terrible, don't even have interrupt bound."

Dps dies from standing in fire. Writes review on the healer "has no idea how to heal, couldn't even heal through a +7"

[erifwodahs]

tank went from 100% to dead in first pull in 1.7 seconds... blamed me for it... how the fuck am i supposed to heal 70k hp in 1.7 seconds...

That pull requires a defensive or external. Chances are that he went in without any AM, or as a paladin, he couldn't build it up yet. ~

but what @Lazerbrain said is not good either. Plenty of healers and tanks don't really know what they are supposed to do and are entitled pricks. Playing certain role doesn't really make you better or worse. I have no doubt that there would be some correlation on performance of tanks/healers but we would need some facts to figure out on which part of the fence they end up. DPS can be perceived to mess up more, but there are 3x DPS for each healer or tank.

[thunderdragon2]

That's a stupid idea.

What about people trolling? Like getting in a group and then AFK in the middle of the M+?
Or just leave the M+ immediately because they don't care about the punishment?
Plenty of people would get CD on their mythic dungeons because of others.

the 2nd part is what the "punishment" is there to deter as for the 1st issue well if people are going to be petty they deserve to be locked out of keys for the day, but something needs to be done to deter that behaviour blizzard has been sheltering these kinds of people for too long.

also io hunters need to be stamped out, those that leave the second its out of time even if that's at the last boss i've had many