1. #1

    (Potential Spoiler) Sun King's Salvation and Venthyr campaign

    This might get a bit ranty

    I am now about to do the next step in my Covenant Campaign at renown 17. I am a Venthyr. The quest I am about to do is called Confronting Sin.
    Now, I noticed, before I could do the quest, a new NPC floating on the other side of the room downstairs. This questline will obviously deal with this guy and what has happened in the raid and the over years.

    The reason I start this thread is because the first line said in the quest text is:
    "Thanks to the raid launched against Castle Nathria we have obtained an opportunity."
    What bothers me about this is that I, the player, have not raided this, only doing the first 3 bosses in LFR, so I should not have him in my Sanctum. I really feel I'm missing part of the story for not being able to have raided Castle Nathira yet, and probably won't because of how hard it is to get a pug spot :P
    He is suddenly just there. I have refrained from looking at cutscenes posted on youtube and maybe even MMO-C because I want to experience the buildup to it myself, but for some reason, such an important and big character has been introduced into my storyline "offscreen". Is it because my guild has done it? I doubt it and guess it's just because blizz has assumed everyone at this renown level has raided and done this by now? The bossfight is not even out on LFR (if it had been I would have been more ok with it).

    So why is this the case and how much am I missing for not having done that bossfight/all of CN? I am considering waiting untill reset to do it, since maybe he will be a fightable boss in the next LFR wing?

  2. #2
    Immagine locking covenant campaign progress with raid boss kill. forums would burn.

  3. #3
    That is true, it would be silly to do so, but would it not be better to at least have a scenario for it? Like, how was he rescued if the player was not involved? I find it very strange that it isn't a scenario, that blizzard is making the story more fragmented and weird because you couldn't raid.
    If I don't get to do the raid on normal, then I will ofc do it when it's on LFR, but by then I will have done the quest, aka done it in the wrong chronological order...

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Vaelyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorgulon View Post
    This might get a bit ranty

    ...

    The reason I start this thread is because the first line said in the quest text is:
    "Thanks to the raid launched against Castle Nathria we have obtained an opportunity."
    What bothers me about this is that I, the player, have not raided this, only doing the first 3 bosses in LFR, so I should not have him in my Sanctum. I really feel I'm missing part of the story for not being able to have raided Castle Nathira yet, and probably won't because of how hard it is to get a pug spot :P

    ...

    So why is this the case and how much am I missing for not having done that bossfight/all of CN? I am considering waiting untill reset to do it, since maybe he will be a fightable boss in the next LFR wing?
    I'm in the same boat as you, but it didn't bother me at all. They have the Kael'thas fight in the Raid Journal, and I know you might feel like you're "spoiling" things for yourself looking in there, but most LFR runs would go much smoother if people glanced at the 2 to4 things expected from their role for the encounters in there.

    Honestly, you're only missing out on possible dialogue he says during the fight. We (anyone who haven't trying to avoid spoilers at all costs) have been aware of Kael'thas being in this expansion, as well as being a boss in the first raid for months.

    If you want to truly save it for after doing the fight, at least it unlock tomorrow. You won't be waiting long. Doing the quest doesn't spoil anything about the encounter I feel, though. ^_^

  5. #5
    It's not just Venthyr. Necrolords also were accompanied by Kael'thas during last week's campaign (which did make sense as our final big bad that was introduced is a figure that has deep ties with him) and it made me stop and think for a moment if this is supposed to play out before or after our raid with Kael'thas being kidnapped and dragged to Nathria later (which could be quickly dismissed though).

    You really aren't missing anything at all storywise though. You can just look at the adventure journal as pointed out before and that pretty much gives you all the story you need to know. It's not as if there were interesting cutscenes or some such during the fight.

    If you do want just a short overview of the important points that happen during or after the raid (most just deal with Kael'thas and Denathrius):
    Kael'thas is tortured and we defeat his guards, heal and rescue him (with the last part just being implied during the raid itself).
    Kaal from Sanguine depths shows up again and gets dealt with finally.
    We win against Denathrius, however his blade Remornia absorbs his soul to save him. We then take Remornia with us and Renathal locks it with Z'rali's help (the Naaru we save in Sanguine Depths) in a beam of light to make sure Denathrius can't escape and remains trapped indefinitely.
    Last edited by Galathir; 2021-01-05 at 07:25 AM.

  6. #6
    He will be the first boss in the second wing.

    You're not missing anything crazy (not cinematic or anything) but I'll spoiler my summary in case you don't want to read it: He is an old villain from The Burning Crusade. When he died he was sent to Revendreth, and Denathrius has been keeping him prisoner to try to amplify his sins and turn him into a weapon, rather than letting him atone. In his boss fight we rescue him, and he is taken to Sinfall to be begin his atonement. His Venthyr quests start after that.

    The reason the quests are designed this way is probably because some players refuse to step into any raid (even LFR) and still want to do all of the story quests. It is confusing though.

  7. #7
    I'm in the same boat as you, but it didn't bother me at all. They have the Kael'thas fight in the Raid Journal, and I know you might feel like you're "spoiling" things for yourself looking in there, but most LFR runs would go much smoother if people glanced at the 2 to4 things expected from their role for the encounters in there.
    It's the dialogue and stuff in the raid I'm referring to, I did know we would encounter KT before the xpac came out, and I've seen how the fight works and read the ingame journal. I won't let myself in the dark like that :P
    I just avoided his name incase anyone who also didn't want to be spoiled read this thread x)
    Last edited by Zorgulon; 2021-01-05 at 07:51 AM. Reason: Added quote

  8. #8
    I mean, you were able to clear De Other Side on the first week of the expansion, where Hakkar appears to be raised by Mueh'zhala, but then on the 4th stage of Night Fae campaign you assist Bwonsamdi in finding out what happened to the regenerating loa, resulting in him being shocked and afraid at the end.

    It feels like Covenant Campaign completely messed up the story flow. But I guess it would make much more sense if it wasn't timegated.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorgulon View Post
    So why is this the case and how much am I missing for not having done that bossfight/all of CN? I am considering waiting untill reset to do it, since maybe he will be a fightable boss in the next LFR wing?
    Next to nothing. The encounter isn't much in the way of lore beyond him being there. That line from the start of the campaign chapter pretty much tells you all you would have learned from the encounter.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorgulon View Post
    That is true, it would be silly to do so, but would it not be better to at least have a scenario for it? Like, how was he rescued if the player was not involved? I find it very strange that it isn't a scenario, that blizzard is making the story more fragmented and weird because you couldn't raid.
    If I don't get to do the raid on normal, then I will ofc do it when it's on LFR, but by then I will have done the quest, aka done it in the wrong chronological order...
    Making maw walker singular is problematic. Best to assume you're not the only one.

  11. #11
    The quest text says 'Thanks to the raid launched....', it doesn't imply your character was there too. Think of it as an event that took place that your character wasn't part of - some other dudes raided Nathria and rescued him, now you are tasked with babysitting. There are other plotholes in campaigns concerning dungeons, like the mentioned above De other side with the Night fae, and Spires of Ascension with the Kyrian. At least in the current situation you are dealing with the consequences of something that took place, instead of witnessing the begining of the story/conflict and being introduced to a villain that you have already defeated while gearing up.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TickTickTick View Post
    I mean, you were able to clear De Other Side on the first week of the expansion, where Hakkar appears to be raised by Mueh'zhala, but then on the 4th stage of Night Fae campaign you assist Bwonsamdi in finding out what happened to the regenerating loa, resulting in him being shocked and afraid at the end.

    It feels like Covenant Campaign completely messed up the story flow. But I guess it would make much more sense if it wasn't timegated.
    Eh, there was no practical way of doing it in a sensible order. If you locked it behind the campaign, everybody would be forced into playing Night Fae, and if you don't then there's always going to be people that do the dungeon before the quests.

    Venthyr campaign at least doesn't require that you did the raid yourself. The raid happened, Kael was freed, everything else isn't specified.

  13. #13
    The wording is literally "thanks to the raid" meaning just because you didn't do doesn't mean it didn't happen.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Littleraven's Avatar
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    This is the give and take of an MMO and changes to the world. Blizzard hasn't done too much of this in the past but honestly they are damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I get the frustration that if you can't be there day one you feel like you are either missing out or are just being pulled along but I kinda like the idea that people doing things in the world has some effect. I know this isn't really that because I guarantee even if no one had cleared Castle Nathria the unlocks would have still happened but it just is a little thing that makes the world feel a bit more alive. Destiny has bene doing stuff like this for the last couple years in small ways and I wish more MMO games did. Helps fulfill that original fantasy of an MMO and it being a living breathing world.

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