Rest in peace rogues

[Shaqthefat]

I mean, yeah they said they downsized... but people claiming it has "no support" is just wrong.

It has very little support

[Naiattavain]

every time i think of warcraft i just get irritated.

[Shaqthefat]

every time i think of warcraft i just get irritated.

You should get some help

[Naiattavain]

so what are you guys gonna do about the neo liberal nazis in charge of the company and game? they are wrecking it for everyone, to the point the product/game can't be played anymore. this is the problem. its why their rogue sucks.

[Celfydd]

so what are you guys gonna do about the neo liberal nazis in charge of the company and game? they are wrecking it for everyone, to the point the product/game can't be played anymore. this is the problem. its why their rogue sucks.

1. neoliberal and nazi are almost exactly polar opposites in the political space
2. it's their game, the only thing you can "do" about it is choose whether to play it or not
3. if it can't be played any more then some 4.5 million people playing it are clearly very confused

Alternatively, none of what you said makes any sense.

[kaelix1]

Im curious about something, Outlaw seems to be better at the moment according to sims, why the majority of rogues are sub, is it because of preference or because sub overall is better in castle nathria?

[Kaver]

Im curious about something, Outlaw seems to be better at the moment according to sims, why the majority of rogues are sub, is it because of preference or because sub overall is better in castle nathria?

I'm not sure where you get your numbers from but the majority of Rogues in Heroic and Mythic CN play Outlaw. Outlaw is better overall for CN. The only downside of Outlaw is that the spec is extremely punished by downtime since we have no burst and no dots.

A lot of the people who are playing Sub have probably been tricked by original theory that Sub would be S-tier for raiding. This turned out not to be true and now a lot of players are probably stuck with only having daggers.

[kaelix1]

I'm not sure where you get your numbers from but the majority of Rogues in Heroic and Mythic CN play Outlaw. Outlaw is better overall for CN. The only downside of Outlaw is that the spec is extremely punished by downtime since we have no burst and no dots.

A lot of the people who are playing Sub have probably been tricked by original theory that Sub would be S-tier for raiding. This turned out not to be true and now a lot of players are probably stuck with only having daggers.

Thanks, my numbers are anecdotal, at the moment im trying to win a spot in the melee team for progress and I was concern regard my spec chose

[Shaqthefat]

1. neoliberal and nazi are almost exactly polar opposites in the political space
2. it's their game, the only thing you can "do" about it is choose whether to play it or not
3. if it can't be played any more then some 4.5 million people playing it are clearly very confused

Alternatively, none of what you said makes any sense.

Its part of the global neo liberal nazi elite conspiracy theory to destroy the WoW rogue class. Make yourself look like two separate polar opposite entities, and then destroy the one thing that can stand in their way... Rogues.

[Charge me Doctor]

I'm looking at Sludgefist WCL right now (link at the bottom) and compared to other melee Rogues look like 4th in # of parses? Where is this "lowest" coming from? And Arms sucks on many fights, but execute damage is really strong here.

Melee parses:

Warrior - 50 (48 arms, 2 fury)
DK - 34 (unholy 34, frost 0)
Paladin - 13
Hunter - 0
Shaman - 0
Rogue - 27 (outlaw 4, sub 23, mut 0)
Monk - 28
DH - 17
Druid - 1

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...s/26#boss=2399

There is not enough mythic parses to give any kind of picture, i don't get why people are obsessed with that - look at 10-15 keys and heroic raiding per boss - rogues are fine

[Bigbazz]

The problem with rogues in raids isn't a lack of performance but a lack of raid specific utility valuable in Castle. Warriors have worse dps but have a spot for Battle Shout and Rallying Cry. In the past Rogues had good dps but were taken because of immunities (example Blackhand). The problem in general with Shadowlands is they reintroduced "bring the class, not the player" as it existed in TBC where classes may perform well but you built your raid around the class utility/buffs.

So for example you took Shamans for Windfury/Bloodlust, Paladins for Blessings, Warrior for Battle/Demo shout/Sunder (and you'd bench a much higher dps Fury Warrior to have Blood Frenzy from Arms). Thing is in SL a rogue brings a lot to a M+ but not to a Castle Raid, and the dps isn't high enough to overcome that. The problem is Blizzard allowing the balance of dps to be completely whack and doing nothing about it.

Outlaw doesn't need buffs, actually it's probably pretty well balanced given it excells in the area it has always done without being overpowered on single target. The top melee specs (WW and UH) are just blasting in every niche. Sub and Assasination should be buffed.

[Naiattavain]

we can all talk about this but nothing will change. i stand right about this.

[d00mh4cker]

You can prove me wrong as much as you want, I refuse to believe facts.

Corrected it for you.

[Sicarius87]

Sub is still pretty above average and outlaw is S tier.

What are you on about?

In fact, the last 3 expansion rogues always had one spec in S tier in every single patch.

Outlaw is not S tier lol. Where the hell have you been?

[Kaver]

I feel like you guys are arguing about the wrong thing. Outlaw damage is fine, and therefore the rogue class is fine at the moment. The REAL problem for rogue right now isn't damage, it's every other melee bringing a buff or AMZ to the raid, while rogue still only brings damage. Half the problem right now is why bring a rogue when you can stack DKs and have 4 AMZ and more dps. The literal issue for Rogue is it's the only melee that brings nothing that can't be achieved with the more meta hunter.

I agree. Rogues offers nothing unique to a raid that only Rogues can do.

But I would also argue that the damage pattern of Outlaw is an issue. Outlaw can dish out some fine damage but it requires you to be on the boss at all time and ignore most mechanics. This is because Outlaw is a sustained melee specs which by definition is not very optimal for progression. Other classes got dots and a lot of burst damage which means they can mitigate a lot of downtime by planning correctly. Outlaw doesn’t have that option. This is why Assassination is so important for the class in my opinion. In BFA it offered both burst and strong dots which is optimal for progression raiding. A sustained spec like Outlaw can do great number but only if you ignore most mechanics. And what raid team would like a player that does no mechanics on their team..

[LazuOG]

always blows my mind how people who play rogues,an S tier class since DAY 1 OF WOW,can complain about it....there has never been an expansion where atleast one spec of rogue was not top tier in pve and pvp,often times it was broken op

They have been pampered by blizzard for as long as they could think and now perceive this priviledged state as the norm. Talk about high horses.

[Naiattavain]

They have been pampered by blizzard for as long as they could think and now perceive this priviledged state as the norm. Talk about high horses.

its always been a high skill rogue defeating players in pvp. but with the game changes from legion we are at the bottom of everything. our high skills set has been broken. from legion to now. wod was the last time a rogue could stand up to other classes and for it to be considered balanced. currently we are screwed.

i watch pikaboo's video stream sometimes and i notice that he makes it work but then blizzard comes in and destroys nerfs the class spec so that now it doesn't work anymore.

Ninjas kill people its a undisputed fact. take a walk off a peer blizzard. to cool off.

[LazuOG]

Ninjas kill people its a undisputed fact. take a walk off a peer blizzard. to cool off.

You seem more agitated than I am by a margin. What are you trying to say? Rogue players deserve to dominate PvP by their choice in the character select screen alone? That's exactly the privileged attitude I was talking about, thanks for reinforcing that argument.

Rogues have been a PvP staple in every expansion, I still get goosebumps thinking about BfA assassination. Rogues are not op right now, they are strong, but that is seemingly not enough for people who want handouts because they picked the niNjA cLaSs tHaT KilLs pEoPLe.

[Naiattavain]

You seem more agitated than I am by a margin. What are you trying to say? Rogue players deserve to dominate PvP by their choice in the character select screen alone? That's exactly the privileged attitude I was talking about, thanks for reinforcing that argument.

Rogues have been a PvP staple in every expansion, I still get goosebumps thinking about BfA assassination. Rogues are not op right now, they are strong, but that is seemingly not enough for people who want handouts because they picked the niNjA cLaSs tHaT KilLs pEoPLe.

chris metzen was a very smart person. u need to learn humility and respect.

your game wow is terrible to play. go walk off a peer to cool off.

[bloodkin]

Its part of the global neo liberal nazi elite conspiracy theory to destroy the WoW rogue class. Make yourself look like two separate polar opposite entities, and then destroy the one thing that can stand in their way... Rogues.

O my god....

Illuminati CONFIRMED.