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  1. #21
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I think storymodes in games are generally a good thing. That WoW is an MMO I don't think is really relevant; a good MMO should have content to cater to both solo and group play. The argument that anything solo should be scrapped because the game is meant to be play with others is silly. Even those of us that play with groups all the time still do regular solo content.

    I could see people liking a feature like this. And honestly, anything that gets people slightly more familiar with group content before they jump into it seems like a win for everyone who has ever PuGed.

    That said, I don't think this is a viable replacement for LFR. LRF is about more than just story for people. It's a path of gear progression for characters or players that don't have a lot of time or interest in committing to a regular raiding or m+ group. I don't think that removing loot from that content is beneficial to anyone.
    Last edited by Tziva; 2021-01-11 at 02:23 AM.
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  2. #22
    This just sounds like WoD scenarios

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayatoo View Post



    The AI is ready. Have you played the Exile's Reach dungeon? Implementing it takes no longer than any other scripted quests of which there are literalyl tohusands in the game already so the dev time and money factor is entirely irrelevant. This is what they do anyway.


    Not hard to figure out.
    It really isn't. I have done Exile's Reach 4 times. The dungeon AI bugged out 3 of those. Twice the AI never even made it to the final boss, they just stood outside the room being useless.

  4. #24
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    ya no fuck that they should focus on making WoW an MMO again and not add more singleplayer shit... if you want the story watch wowhead or any other site with wowlore posted also no rewards ya sure

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    Umm kinda half assed knowing the dungeon doesnt help people with social anxiety because the root cause of them not queing (OTHER PEOPLE) is still there
    At least the fear of not knowing the mechanics and missing out on the story would be gone, so there is no reason for them not to progress further with others.

    The real half-assed system is the current one, because you have to rely other players to grow your own story, or learn the mechanics in the first place.

    After that you can safely re-run any dungeon over and over, because you know all lore associated with it already, the fear of missing out is eliminated by that point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by fatgunn View Post
    It really isn't. I have done Exile's Reach 4 times. The dungeon AI bugged out 3 of those. Twice the AI never even made it to the final boss, they just stood outside the room being useless.
    I've done it 10+ times already, all went smoothly, haven't encountered a single bug in it.

    I'm pretty sure its bugged for you because you don't bring the correct mindset to it.
    Mostly because you probably run ahead skipping mobs and expect the AI to behave like current pugs and skip all story and lore bits.

    A soon as you treat it like a scripted quest, the "bugs" will magically disappear, I promise

  6. #26
    Worst idea I've heard in a while..

  7. #27
    There's several problems with this.

    First: Doing an AI that can do any role on any boss is fucking hard. It wil be prone to errors, which will soil user experience if you can't advance because your tank bugs out etc.

    Second: Once you have this system in place, people WILL demand this for higher difficulties and other content to the point where they can completely lock out social experiences.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    There's several problems with this.

    First: Doing an AI that can do any role on any boss is fucking hard. It wil be prone to errors, which will soil user experience if you can't advance because your tank bugs out etc.

    Second: Once you have this system in place, people WILL demand this for higher difficulties and other content to the point where they can completely lock out social experiences.
    1: Not if you design the AI role together with the encounter itself. Problem solved.

    2: There are demands for all sort of things - does not mean they have to be implemented ever, if they don't make sense.

    Don't kill progression, be eased into it is the motto of this feature.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayatoo View Post
    1: Not if you design the AI role together with the encounter itself. Problem solved.

    2: There are demands for all sort of things - does not mean they have to be implemented ever, if they don't make sense.
    Don't kill progression, be eased into it is the motto of this feature.
    1. I highly doubt you understand anything about AI, like at all. If you manually adapt it to every single one of literally hundreds of encounters, it's not an AI anymore. Plus this is a buttload of work.

    2. Players are just unreasonable, proven by these forums every day. In the long term, this will damage the game a lot more than it will do it good.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    1. I highly doubt you understand anything about AI, like at all. If you manually adapt it to every single one of literally hundreds of encounters, it's not an AI anymore. Plus this is a buttload of work.

    2. Players are just unreasonable, proven by these forums every day. In the long term, this will damage the game a lot more than it will do it good.
    1. Ah the good old strategy of accusing others of ignorance if they don't know any better As someone who personally coded encounters in games, I can tell you that it becomes just another part of the encounter itself. Then you remove the AI if there are players around. It's not that hard as you think it is as an outsider.

    2. Of course they are unreasonable, you just demonstrated it. Doesn't mean that the developers need to listen to these setbacks to progress.

  11. #31
    you mean like the henchmen and heros from Guild Wars 1? I remember having to finish the last coop mission with a full party of bots back in the day. Great times lol xD

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunderella View Post
    you mean like the henchmen and heros from Guild Wars 1? I remember having to finish the last coop mission with a full party of bots back in the day. Great times lol xD
    Yep, now imagine where computer AI in video games is now after 15 years
    They seem almost human. BGs would be included too akin to Island Expeditions

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    1. I highly doubt you understand anything about AI, like at all. If you manually adapt it to every single one of literally hundreds of encounters, it's not an AI anymore. Plus this is a buttload of work.

    2. Players are just unreasonable, proven by these forums every day. In the long term, this will damage the game a lot more than it will do it good.
    1. They can, it's just a part of the encounter as I said. Not harder than doing the encounter itself. you probably can't code but trust me when I say it's doable without much hassle.

    2. Unreasonable people will exist, even ones who can't comprehend something and have wild assumptions about things they have no knowledge of. Doesn't mean they can hinder progress though if those with a clear vision won't let them.
    Last edited by Hayatoo; 2021-01-11 at 09:41 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayatoo View Post
    Heya!

    So with such a good AI as it exist nowadays,
    It's finally time for story mode instances!

    The idea is you get NPC group-mates to run an instance - dungeon, raid, or BGs for the first time:

    -Entirely optional: you can start grouping up right away, without ever touching completing this feature.

    -No blues drop whatsoever, only the very same green levelling ilevel gear you would otherwise get through questing.

    -No mount, pet, or any other vanity item dropping in this mode.

    -No cheevos, and especially no world firsts - this is your private story after all.

    -It exists for learning and taking in the story at your own personal pace.

    -Same difficulty as normal instances but with NPCs like in Exile's Reach dungeon.

    -Learn the story and the mechanics until you feel ready to be grouped with other players.

    -And most importantly finish any instance quests on your own without waiting! Does not apply to repeatable quests like dailies etc.

    After that it's time to dive in, have fun and grind the instances with friends and pugs as many times as you like
    I am against everything that gives people an excuse not to talk to people even more that it is allready.

    A MMO lives from people playing together. The community grows from it and creates a better experience for everybody. Looking for XYZ tools allready made irreversible damage to the game. But we learned to live with it. The entitlement just grows and grows. People want to finish the game without talking to others.

    You learn the game by playing with others. It is allready taking your hand enough while leveling. It is basically impossible to wipe in leveling dungeons or normal current dungeons. LFR has people who do not care one bit about the raid and don't look up anything. You proposed story mode would be so easy that no one would learn anything. And the amount of work they have to put into it, that the AI can actually play every dungeon, is just way too much for it.
    There are way bigger problems they should work on right now. PvP, variety in transmogs, literally anything else^^

    If this is implemented people will cry, that they don't get rewards. So blizz will give you subnormal gear. People cry becuase it is not as good etcpp. Better not to open that box imho

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by fatgunn View Post
    It effects everyone. It's dev time and money wasted on a feature that is only useful for people who are too scared of other players to even do an lfr. It makes lfr/dungeon queues longer by lowering the player pool.

    Honestly I don't even understand how someone who would use this even got started playing an mmo. Feels like the thought that other people exist in the world would be too much for them.
    Lfr is enought to see why someone would not want to group with other people to do content. Actually, every online multiplayer game is enought to see it. Solo challenging content is better than content with challenged players

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I am against everything that gives people an excuse not to talk to people even more that it is allready.

    A MMO lives from people playing together. The community grows from it and creates a better experience for everybody. Looking for XYZ tools allready made irreversible damage to the game. But we learned to live with it. The entitlement just grows and grows. People want to finish the game without talking to others.

    You learn the game by playing with others. It is allready taking your hand enough while leveling. It is basically impossible to wipe in leveling dungeons or normal current dungeons. LFR has people who do not care one bit about the raid and don't look up anything. You proposed story mode would be so easy that no one would learn anything. And the amount of work they have to put into it, that the AI can actually play every dungeon, is just way too much for it.
    There are way bigger problems they should work on right now. PvP, variety in transmogs, literally anything else^^

    If this is implemented people will cry, that they don't get rewards. So blizz will give you subnormal gear. People cry becuase it is not as good etcpp. Better not to open that box imho
    Assumptions over assumptions based on false premises one after the other.

    I have already refuted all the points you brought up. Read the thread it will do you good

    Some of the highlights:

    - It facilitates group play instead of detracting from it.
    - The work is already done, implementing it is as easy as designing the encounter itself.
    - The player feels immersed into the world through their own story
    - No overlap with any current progression system whatsoever.

    How can this be so hard to grasp four you an others like you? xD
    Last edited by Hayatoo; 2021-01-11 at 10:09 AM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayatoo View Post


    1. They can, it's just a part of the encounter as I said. Not harder than doing the encounter itself. you probably can't code but trust me when I say it's doable without much hassle.

    2. Unreasonable people will exist, even ones who can't comprehend something and have wild assumptions about things they have no knowledge of. Doesn't mean they can hinder progress though if those with a clear vision won't let them.
    Yep, boom goes the last shreds of your credibility. Pretty funny all these "easy solutions" to Wow's "problems" by people without any techincal knowledge.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by fatgunn View Post
    It really isn't. I have done Exile's Reach 4 times. The dungeon AI bugged out 3 of those. Twice the AI never even made it to the final boss, they just stood outside the room being useless.
    Based on my experience that's a perfect replication of real player's behaviour.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Yep, boom goes the last shreds of your credibility. Pretty funny all these "easy solutions" to Wow's "problems" by people without any techincal knowledge.
    Yep, just because you can't comprehend it, let alone do it, doesn't mean somebody with the proper skills can't.
    Don't worry though, I'm sure you can be useful in other areas

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cathfaern View Post
    Based on my experience that's a perfect replication of real player's behaviour.
    LOOOOOOOOOLLL XD

  19. #39
    This functions in FF14, but in that game the story mode is heavily tied to dungeons, to the point where it is impossible to progress through the story campaign without doing them, so this kind of solution is understandable. Not only for people who don't want to play with others, but probably mostly for people who can't be bothered to wait for ages to get a group for an old dungeon.

    In WoW, dungeon quests are always a bonus thing, rarely are they needed for some profession recipe, and in those cases those recipes are also heavily dungeon/raid focused, so it's okay.

    And yeah, I agree it's better to just keep dungeon content as a bonus thing out of the main story, rather than introduce AI parties for dungeons.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    This functions in FF14, but in that game the story mode is heavily tied to dungeons, to the point where it is impossible to progress through the story campaign without doing them, so this kind of solution is understandable. Not only for people who don't want to play with others, but probably mostly for people who can't be bothered to wait for ages to get a group for an old dungeon.

    In WoW, dungeon quests are always a bonus thing, rarely are they needed for some profession recipe, and in those cases those recipes are also heavily dungeon/raid focused, so it's okay.

    And yeah, I agree it's better to just keep dungeon content as a bonus thing out of the main story, rather than introduce AI parties for dungeons.
    Playing through FF14 was actually one of the inspirations for this mode

    Just a solution for players who are interested in the lore, like a quest: do it once, then jump into the grind and glory of progression with LFG and friends

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