Limit's WF kill is almost the same ilevel as guilds downing it 2 resets after

[GnomeEU]

I have 211 ilvl right now.
I think if I upgrade my legendary, buy 3 boe and Arena rating I should be at 220 as well.

Pretty lame that most of my upgrades could come from money now.

As I haven't played pvp for years and don't know anyone, it would take me a long time to get rating there as well.

[Dazu]

it isnt all the gear,but the gear plays a huge factor,limit has the resources to get all the mythic boe's

I can go buy a full set of mythic BoEs too. You can aswell. We all can go buy mythic BoEs just like Limit does.
There is nothing gear wise that Limit gets that any other equally skill person isnt capable of obtaining with equal effort/time and commitment.
What they have over others is financial backing to do this as a job and the skill and commitment to pursue it.

Raid BoEs have been a thing since vanilla. MC dropped BoE tier pieces. Weve had trash epics most tiers since, some BoE and some BoP, sometimes recipes. Being BoE just reduces the need for trash farming as a raid group rather than buying from people who have gotten lucky. Probably wouldnt hurt Limit etc to make them BoP or remove, but the smaller guilds which cant dedicate as much game time as Limit also then cant buy those BoEs where Limit would just trash farm around raids.

[Xath]

I'm not an expert in this but I seem to remember watching a vid of a Teron Gorefiend kill from Nihilum and people talking about how amazing it was that some of them were still wearing T3 too. Can't find the vid though, and I'm not the type of person who can look at a vid and say hey that's t3!

But that was a totally different gear paradigm. Kungen was using Thunderfury, which was obtainable during what, BWL, all the way until they killed Illidan. The gear didn't scale as fast between expansions. And while those guilds were obviously good, they weren't nearly as optimized as many guilds today are.

And yeah, clearing it after the raid has already been cleared by other guilds allows you to know what classes are good and all the boss strats, so it's not comparable to the world first. It might have been a better acheivement, might have been worse, it's just impossible to say.

Kungen was using TF because burst threat wise it was still absurd. Devilshark Cape was the big thing that made blizz go oh that's not right and add the capes to trash because it was bis in the game for warrior tanks until those capes on trash were added. Agree it's very different doing bosses when you know the strats already but doing them while the majority of your raid is still heavily under geared is impressive.

https://www.engadget.com/2007-10-29-...the-seven.html

52 days post xpac launch is kind of insane.

[Kaver]

This is a situation where it's likely Blizzard will not intervene because the RWF is not an official race. It doesn't have official rules and unless Blizzard is actively involved with it there's little to no incentive for them to change anything. Since the event generates hype without any real action on their part they're free to reap the rewards (exposure for the game) while simultaneously having no real need to moderate the players participating in the race. They ~could~ do a lot indirectly, yes, but Blizzard has repeatedly indicated they have no real desire to butt in.

This is true. But we also see the interest for the WF race increase every tier. It only really started in BFA (as a streamed event) and has grown rapidly since then. In Legion and before that, the race was mainly based on people looking at Wowprogress. Things might change.

[Relapses]

This is true. But we also see the interest for the WF race increase every tier. It only really started in BFA (as a streamed event) and has grown rapidly since then. In Legion and before that, the race was mainly based on people looking at Wowprogress. Things might change.

I'd say the exposure through twitch has increased but the race has always been a popular community event. The RWF threads on here, for example, were actually more popular back before streaming than they are now.

[Kaver]

I'd say the exposure through twitch has increased but the race has always been a popular community event. The RWF threads on here, for example, were actually more popular back before streaming than they are now.

Yes but I was more thinking about it from a perspective of profitability which goes hand in hand with exposure to some degree. My point is, that now we are seeing the race rapidly grow as a spectator event, we might see Blizzard change their minds from earlier statements. We also see more organizational structures behind the top guilds which will allow them to potentially communicate more freely with Blizzard and sponsors.

[deenman]

I can go buy a full set of mythic BoEs too. You can aswell. We all can go buy mythic BoEs just like Limit does.
There is nothing gear wise that Limit gets that any other equally skill person isnt capable of obtaining with equal effort/time and commitment.
What they have over others is financial backing to do this as a job and the skill and commitment to pursue it.

Raid BoEs have been a thing since vanilla. MC dropped BoE tier pieces. Weve had trash epics most tiers since, some BoE and some BoP, sometimes recipes. Being BoE just reduces the need for trash farming as a raid group rather than buying from people who have gotten lucky. Probably wouldnt hurt Limit etc to make them BoP or remove, but the smaller guilds which cant dedicate as much game time as Limit also then cant buy those BoEs where Limit would just trash farm around raids.

sure dude,you and everyone else can get 300 milion gold,because thats how an economy tottaly works

anyways this is all pointless when even limit said this is a prolem and that it gives them an unfair advatage

[Relapses]

Yes but I was more thinking about it from a perspective of profitability which goes hand in hand with exposure to some degree. My point is, that now we are seeing the race rapidly grow as a spectator event, we might see Blizzard change their minds from earlier statements. We also see more organizational structures behind the top guilds which will allow them to potentially communicate more freely with Blizzard and sponsors.

Time will tell but I'm not holding my breath. Blizzard officiating the RWF would be akin to making it a legitimate eSport and, well, it really isn't nor was it ever meant to be. Moreover, despite the rampant nation bashing and ass-backwards logic you see posted on this forum every race, this rivalry is part of why there's so much hype (which the organizations supporting the RWF teams benefit from). So while the guilds themselves may say publicly they want a "fair race," they know full well such a thing would likely make the whole event less popular.

[ClassicPeon]

Time will tell but I'm not holding my breath. Blizzard officiating the RWF would be akin to making it a legitimate eSport and, well, it really isn't nor was it ever meant to be. Moreover, despite the rampant nation bashing and ass-backwards logic you see posted on this forum every race, this rivalry is part of why there's so much hype (which the organizations supporting the RWF teams benefit from). So while the guilds themselves may say publicly they want a "fair race," they know full well such a thing would likely make the whole event less popular.

Neither was Counter Strike btw

[Toybox]

Neither was Counter Strike btw

Nor Dota 1. Or Starcraft. Or Quake back in the day.

The best & most successful esports are the ones that aren't designed to be esports. In fact, the only two games I can think that succeeded with esports in mind as a design goal are Rocket League & League of Legends.

[ClassicPeon]

Nor Dota 1. Or Starcraft. Or Quake back in the day.

The best & most successful esports are the ones that aren't designed to be esports. In fact, the only two games I can think that succeeded with esports in mind as a design goal are Rocket League & League of Legends.

Agree. A game evolves into an esport if the community has an interest for it

[Xalvia]

4 boes is complete overkill. 2 max.

[Relapses]

Agree. A game evolves into an esport if the community has an interest for it

So it's okay for WoW to suddenly "evolve" into a real eSport, magically, 16 years after its inception because angry WoW players on forums don't understand the difference between a playful competitive rivalry and outright nationalism?

K.

[Toybox]

So it's okay for WoW to suddenly "evolve" into a real eSport, magically, 16 years after its inception because angry WoW players on forums don't understand the difference between a playful competitive rivalry and outright nationalism?

K.

If hundreds of thousands of people want to watch it then sure, why not. The platforms for it to thrive now exist.

[Relapses]

If hundreds of thousands of people want to watch it then sure, why not. The platforms for it to thrive now exist.

Why is it Blizzard's job to officiate the race? They have nothing to gain and everything to lose. The race has already proven to garner hundreds of thousands of viewers without Blizzard's intervention. It's unlikely this is going to get much higher even if they add official rules or attempt to legitimize the race. There won't be Olympic fucking stadiums full of people ready to watch 40+ WoW players no-life a raid instance for two weeks. Like I said, the silly nationalism is part of what fuels those hundreds and thousands of viewers currently. The only people who benefit from Blizzard intervening are the players participating in the RWF (kek) and smug forum posters who want to pretend there's more than simple nationalistic bias guiding their opinions about how the race is played out.

[Toybox]

Why is it Blizzard's job to officiate the race? They have nothing to gain and everything to lose. The race has already proven to garner hundreds of thousands of viewers without Blizzard's intervention. It's unlikely this is going to get much higher even if they add official rules or attempt to legitimize the race. There won't be Olympic fucking stadiums full of people ready to watch 40+ WoW players no-life a raid instance for two weeks. Like I said, the silly nationalism is part of what fuels those hundreds and thousands of viewers currently. The only people who benefit from Blizzard intervening are the players participating in the RWF (kek) and smug forum posters who want to pretend there's more than simple nationalistic bias guiding their opinions about how the race is played out.

I never said it was. Given their track record, I'd trust Blizzard with esports just as much as I'd trust a toddler with a pistol.

That said, the first Dota TI was played at Gamescom to like dozens of people, & now TI boasts $30m+ prizepools & viewership second only to League outside of China. Of course I'm not saying I think WoW will get anywhere near that big (or that it'll grow much bigger than it currently is), but Blizzard could 100% step in & possibly make it better, or, more likely, make it worse. Not a salty Starcraft/WC3 fan, by the way...

Easiest & best thing Blizzard could do at little to no expense is global release. Side by side views of guilds progressing the same boss at the same time with similar farm time leading up to it would be pretty cool I've no idea about all that nationalistic stuff regarding WoW, but I can probably put a picture together from having watched other esports.

[Relapses]

I never said it was. Given their track record, I'd trust Blizzard with esports just as much as I'd trust a toddler with a pistol.

That said, the first Dota TI was played at Gamescom to like dozens of people, & now TI boasts $30m+ prizepools & viewership second only to League outside of China. Of course I'm not saying I think WoW will get anywhere near that big (or that it'll grow much bigger than it currently is), but Blizzard could 100% step in & possibly make it better, or, more likely, make it worse. Not a salty Starcraft/WC3 fan, by the way...

Easiest & best thing Blizzard could do at little to no expense is global release. Side by side views of guilds progressing the same boss at the same time with similar farm time leading up to it would be pretty cool I've no idea about all that nationalistic stuff regarding WoW, but I can probably put a picture together from having watched other esports.

"Global release" is not as easy as people on forums make it seem. It would require changing the way lockouts work for an entire region just so less than two dozen players can have a "fair" race. It'd also be seen as an intervention on Blizzard's part so should anything negative happen afterward, people will look at the precedent set by changing the start of the race and say, "well, you already did global release... now you need to do {x}, {y} and {z}." (Yes, I understand this is a bit of a slippery slope fallacy but it's not unreasonable to think that this is exactly how it'd play out.) Not to mention the negative impacts a global release will have on sleep schedules and the like. Sure, the players can likely adapt to it without issue but since this "fair race" is supported by fans, those same fans will suddenly move the goal post from "unfair raid release" to "unfair sleep schedule" the second things don't go the way they want. That said, I agree with all of the positive benefits of a global release; I just can't realistically see Blizzard doing it any time soon.

[Cracked]

"Global release" is not as easy as people on forums make it seem. It would require changing the way lockouts work for an entire region just so less than two dozen players can have a "fair" race. It'd also be seen as an intervention on Blizzard's part so should anything negative happen afterward, people will look at the precedent set by changing the start of the race and say, "well, you already did global release... now you need to do {x}, {y} and {z}." (Yes, I understand this is a bit of a slippery slope fallacy but it's not unreasonable to think that this is exactly how it'd play out.) Not to mention the negative impacts a global release will have on sleep schedules and the like. Sure, the players can likely adapt to it without issue but since this "fair race" is supported by fans, those same fans will suddenly move the goal post from "unfair raid release" to "unfair sleep schedule" the second things don't go the way they want. That said, I agree with all of the positive benefits of a global release; I just can't realistically see Blizzard doing it any time soon.

It's not without problems, but all participants already said they can adjust their cycles to whatever the global release would be. And to be quite fair, I would argue it would be logistically easier for Blizzard in the long run too. The most likely time would be something like 2 am reset for US == 9 am for EU, if they insist on the "overnight" / morning reset times.

[ClassicPeon]

So it's okay for WoW to suddenly "evolve" into a real eSport, magically, 16 years after its inception because angry WoW players on forums don't understand the difference between a playful competitive rivalry and outright nationalism?

K.

What in the world are you talking about lol. How the fuck does someone come to a conclusion like that. Thats literally the funniest thing i've seen this week

I'm talking about the "angry nationalistic wow players" btw

But yes. Ofc its ok for wow to evolve into an esport. Why wouldnt it be

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I think Blizzard already gets what they want from the WF race without having to do anything. So why do something? End of the day it's just a few dozen people that participate in the event and most the fandom seems more obsessed with what side of the atlantic the players are on more than anything else. It also was never a problem before. Just seems like once Europe started taking L's suddenly the rules neex to change, whole regions need reset days changed, people working jobs at Blizzard have to shift work schedules? Seems a little much for what is in essence a 6 week a year thing. The better solution is to just have compitition realms these guilds can access. Copy characters over to. Have one for each region. Stage a sync release between these 2 special realms. No more fan feeding BoEs. No more time difference. Just pure guild on guild. Also no one else really has to do anything or change. This is what they already do for PvP and M+ competitions. Just makes sense.