What if.... Raid will not have a loot lockout like M+?

[Scarnage86]

I like Raid, actualy is the only reason i play wow... but in latest year M+ has became the focus of wow pve.
Now i log on reset, do normal 10/10, then pass the week in hc..., when i will finish hc, same story, loggin on reset and full clean in 1 day then stop playing.
What if raid had no weekly loot lockout and can be redone (for loot) more time a week, let's say a daily lockout.
Even if they cut in half the loot chance i think it will be fun for some ppl like me that just want to raid.
Ppl who loves m+ got what they want, but why raiders can't?
Now blizz instead of promoting raid, they nerf m+ loot, making m+ player angry, and raid player still the same in 15years....

[Vasilisa]

M+ max ilvl drop is 210 (plus 226 ilvl weekly item). Making raids a daily lockout would make other activities obsolete. M+ are easier to access but grant worse gear then raids. If raids were to have daily lockout they'd have to give identical ilvl as M+ what is against current Blizzard policy. I totally understand your needs for fun (like I could spend 90% in old raids, I like farming things for mounts/transmogs) but I doubt there is even a slight possibility for daily raid lockouts.

[Wuusah]

You would burnout rather quickly. M+ affixes help a lot with making dungeons more replayable.

[LordVargK]

m+ is 30-60min and needs to coordinate 5 men. Raid is 2-4 hours and requires at least 10. Even IF raid lockout is removed, no raid in their right mind (aka casual raid) will run more than the usual raid days, so reducing drop rates is a terrible idea. Also, if you have HC on farm, you should do mythic. And most mythic players are quite relieved to have the raid on farm.

[aceperson]

I like Raid, actualy is the only reason i play wow... but in latest year M+ has became the focus of wow pve.
Now i log on reset, do normal 10/10, then pass the week in hc..., when i will finish hc, same story, loggin on reset and full clean in 1 day then stop playing.
What if raid had no weekly loot lockout and can be redone (for loot) more time a week, let's say a daily lockout.
Even if they cut in half the loot chance i think it will be fun for some ppl like me that just want to raid.
Ppl who loves m+ got what they want, but why raiders can't?
Now blizz instead of promoting raid, they nerf m+ loot, making m+ player angry, and raid player still the same in 15years....

i honestly think raids not having any loot lockout would just lead to immense burnout. people already feel like they need to do everything (even when they literally don't have too...). this would really cause people to quit the game.

the devs JUST seemed to have learned that having an ending point is a good thing but there is no need to let people rush themselves to that end point. while time gating is overall bad, in the case of raid lockouts and such, it's for the players own good.

[Scarnage86]

So....
If ilvl drop for normal and hc is the same as m+
If affixes are introduced
If Mythic lockout stay on weekly
All of you saying will be probably forced to do and lead to a burnout
But what about having 1/3 equip from raid 1/3 from pvp and 1/3 from m+? if i like raid why the game force me to do other things? m+ only players do not have the same fellings... they can just spam endlessy..
Adding that m+ microgroup as leading to divided group of ppl inside the same raid, the ones that run a lot of them and the ones that can't/do not want

[Bigcountry11782]

I mean if you want more broken economy than we already have now then sure lets not have loot lock outs in raids lol that is all it will promote more carry groups that get way more gold than they need to have and can ass rape the ah prices on everything. This is a terrible idea.

[Scarnage86]

I mean if you want more broken economy than we already have now then sure lets not have loot lock outs in raids lol that is all it will promote more carry groups that get way more gold than they need to have and can ass rape the ah prices on everything. This is a terrible idea.

economy? will be an easy fix, less gold, end.
Btw the same economy that for raid flask ask for 1k+ gold..... what changed in wow from farming a flask in tbc to nowdays to justify such increase in price... time invested is the same.....

[dacoolist]

I'm going to cut to the chase here:

Someone telling me the skill level of killing the first boss on heroic that drops 213 over and over vs running ANY m+15 the ENTIRE 40+++ minute dungeon to drop ONE single piece of loot (unless your groups badass enough to time it) vs a faceroll in a raid isn't even comparable..

[zetti]

I'm going to cut to the chase here:

Someone telling me the skill level of killing the first boss on heroic that drops 213 over and over vs running ANY m+15 the ENTIRE 40+++ minute dungeon to drop ONE single piece of loot (unless your groups badass enough to time it) vs a faceroll in a raid isn't even comparable..

Honestly, if he want's it to be like Mythic+, I would say award it has to be handled like a Mythic+
Affixes, bonus HP + Damage, No one could leave the raid till it has been completed, or your whole group is fucked. Let's award about... 1-2 pieces per member, AT THE END OF THE RAID NOT A SINGULAR BOSS, with no looting bosses or enemies.

With all of that said, it would be super interesting to see how people handle a Mythic+ version of Sludgefist.

[Hellobolis]

if raids had no lockout they would have to drop less loot, and giong from 4 to 3 items for 20 people already feels a loooot worse.

[Scarnage86]

as i say up, cut the droprate (maybe 1 item every 10ppl) and the drop ilvl (210 for hc) but daily lockout.
you doing 15+ still got 1item in 5 ppl in 40min, every time you run it.
It will be so bad of a 10 boss raid will drop 20 item for 20ppl let's say in 3-4 hours?.
in the same time you can do at least 5 +15 and guess what still get the same % of loot! 5 for 5 or more if timed (even 10loot for 5ppl)

[Blackmist]

Just stop M+ awarding loot after you've done 10 in a week. Ta-da, now it's almost as shit as raiding.

[Hellobolis]

It will be so bad of a 10 boss raid will drop 20 item for 20ppl let's say in 3-4 hours?.

considering it takes a lot of guilds 12-16 hours to clear 10 bosses, yes.

[Scarnage86]

Just stop M+ awarding loot after you've done 10 in a week. Ta-da, now it's almost as shit as raiding.

well.... this sounds fantastic, i will be no more forced to do tons of it.....and focus more in closing high key, then quantity!

[zetti]

as i say up, cut the droprate (maybe 1 item every 10ppl) and the drop ilvl (210 for hc) but daily lockout.
you doing 15+ still got 1item in 5 ppl in 40min, every time you run it.
It will be so bad of a 10 boss raid will drop 20 item for 20ppl let's say in 3-4 hours?.
in the same time you can do at least 5 +15 and guess what still get the same % of loot! 5 for 5 or more if timed (even 10loot for 5ppl)

If you want it to be like Mythic+ then you have to suffer the same issues, such as no loot from anything till the end of the instance. With only 1-2 drops per 5 man, per 4 bosses. This means that Castle would give ~10-12 drops at the end of the instance, and if someone were to leave during the raid they would be irreplaceable. It could keep the same iLvl with a modifier of +3ilvl~ per level of the key. That is pretty much the only way I could see it being fair.

[Scarnage86]

If you want it to be like Mythic+ then you have to suffer the same issues, such as no loot from anything till the end of the instance. With only 1-2 drops per 5 man, per 4 bosses. This means that Castle would give ~10-12 drops at the end of the instance, and if someone were to leave during the raid they would be irreplaceable. It could keep the same iLvl with a modifier of +3ilvl~ per level of the key. That is pretty much the only way I could see it being fair.

fair in what? in loot ilvl yes raid is still superior... but in loot quantity as things are now m+ is still superior in raw quantity.
Just ask everyone this: what is the faster way of equipping a char? they will say, honor until 200 then m+.....

[zetti]

fair in what? in loot ilvl yes raid is still superior... but in loot quantity as things are now m+ is still superior in raw quantity.
Just ask everyone this: what is the faster way of equipping a char? they will say, honor until 200 then m+.....

I am on the opposite side of that, I think rated PvP is the best way and the easiest way to get a lot of 226ilvl gear.

[Hellobolis]

fair in what? in loot ilvl yes raid is still superior... but in loot quantity as things are now m+ is still superior in raw quantity.
Just ask everyone this: what is the faster way of equipping a char? they will say, honor until 200 then m+.....

come to your guilds alt raid.
have your friends carry you in m+.
(or buy boe/boosts)

[fangless]

m+ is 30-60min and needs to coordinate 5 men. Raid is 2-4 hours and requires at least 10. Even IF raid lockout is removed, no raid in their right mind (aka casual raid) will run more than the usual raid days, so reducing drop rates is a terrible idea. Also, if you have HC on farm, you should do mythic. And most mythic players are quite relieved to have the raid on farm.

Different number of bosses?

You don't have to do every raid boss in one sitting, and people can do more than 1 M+ in a sitting as well.