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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    yeah, but she was sad about it!

    and i get her family might forgive her, but people? "hey remember that woman thats resposnible for death of our king, and a lot of our people including your cousin and couple of your friends? well, shes our queen now"
    in their place, i would fucking rebel its utterly ridiculous
    I loathe how much she pampered to the Horde on that day. You're one of the most talented sorceres -Ice Nova everyone and make them listen. Promise to father that you'll personally freeze and shatter any hordie that goes back on non-aggression deal. Follow up on your promise. Problem solved.

    But, despite this she is NOT responsible "for death of our king, and a lot of our people including your cousin and couple of your friends". She didn't side with orcs, she didn't kill anyone. She didn't put them into that fight. Quite the opposite - she tried to stop this fight from happening. All she did after that - is to stand aside. And while, again, I think it was idiotic, the only ones responsible for deaths that day were people charging into fight and Horde killing them.
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  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ye ok, time to bring the usual stuff you people simply can't excuse: 10k nelv citizens cooked alive and knowingly sent to the Maw. No amount of "pursuing her own goals" or "fighting the system" can explain this. These mental gymnastics were presented here so many times. And about writers saying she wont be Garrosh 2.0: "Grom will be WoD's final boss".
    They would die anyway, that's the point. You seem to completely miss the point of death and amount of thinking Banshee Queen put into realisation of how shitty the Purpose is. She witnessed thousands of high elves executed by the Scourge and she wanted to understand why? And why is she not dead? And what "undeath" means at all.

    Judging by her inner dialogs she clearly decided that there is no point in life so of course I don't think she has any sympathy for a bunch of nelfs. And she actually has a good point in this. If life is some shit that is like 5 mins old compared to eternity in Shadowlands then its nothing and anything you do in life doesn't matter.
    Last edited by Ethas; 2021-01-25 at 05:17 PM.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Better Blizz not make every other faction entirely toothless. But since they did forsaken cannot exist in such setting. So Blizz have to either make all other races "harder" or "soften up" the forsaken. Guess what they will choose?
    Well I have top secret footage of blizz choosing their story narrative

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-PtEJEaqY

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimmak View Post
    Calia makes sense canonically but I can see why people push back. Here's the thing though the forsaken are a diminished people. They have not been reproducing and repopulating. Heck without valkyr I am not sure you can get more undead, the exception being Deathknights.

    With the helm of domination currently broken, Sylvannis is not needed to psychically shield the people from the Lich King. Remeber thats how she is giving them their freedom. And that's why for most undead she had their loyalty. Perhapa that loyalty was even forced. Perhaps.

    In any even the Forsaken may move to a split faction or a neutral one. With the light forge and those who want to go home being welcomed into the Alliance.

    It also might be a slow gradual move away from split horde and alliance factions as it just doesn't make sense to keep them as is. I struggle with most Tauren, and druids, and specs that are light based to stick with the horde after Garrosh and Sylvannis. Their actions are antithical to a lot of the horde.

    But time will tell. But my money is that she is there to open up an allied race.
    This would be true if void elves didn't exist. Their existence, if anything, would just make the light wielding races of the horde believe even more that they're in the right I think
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  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    To play devils advocate here, she intends to remodel a universe spanning system, affecting trillions upon trillions of souls for the better, compared to that a few millions are nothing.
    For someone going for "remodeling for better", Jailer forces talk too much about "eternal chains", "serving forever" and "death of everything you know".
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  6. #226
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    This pathetic shit again. Yeah, right, eVuL eNeMy that started 1st war with Horde. Oh wait... Horde did. Well, 2nd one. Nope, Horde again. 3rd one! What, Horde did it? Maybe fourth is a lucky number? Naaah... Horde.
    While the first 2 wars were undoubtedly started by that the horde they didn’t really start another one until bfa.

    In WC3 they stole some ships and fled trying to avoid a war and past that didn’t start any of the conflicts.

    Classic and tbc are more of a Cold War continuing off of WC3

    In wrath the alliance declares war on the horde and is bombing there towns before that.

    Cata is the real start of the wrath war with the alliance attacking first.

    Mop is a the earth war ongoing.

    Wod is peace.

    Legion is the alliance attacking first but they don’t go to war over it.

    Bfa is the horde restarting the war in earnest by attacking the tree.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethas View Post
    They would die anyway, that's the point. You seem to completely miss the point of death and amount of thinking Banshee Queen put into realisation of how shitty the Purpose is. She witnessed thousands of high elves executed by the Scourge and she wanted to understand why? Judging by her inner dialogs she clearly decided that there is no point in life so of course I don't think she has any sympathy for a bunch of nelfs. And she actually has a good point in this. If life is some shit that is like 5 mins old compared to eternity in Shadowlands then its nothing and anything you do in life doesn't matter.
    Such ideology/thinking was tried in deozens of other games and anime and all sorts of fiction and it always fails. Its also a common point of view shared by every second villain.

  8. #228
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethas View Post
    They would die anyway, that's the point. You seem to completely miss the point of death and amount of thinking Banshee Queen put into realisation of how shitty the Purpose is. She witnessed thousands of high elves executed by the Scourge and she wanted to understand why? And why is she not dead? And what "undeath" means at all.

    Judging by her inner dialogs she clearly decided that there is no point in life so of course I don't think she has any sympathy for a bunch of nelfs. And she actually has a good point in this. If life is some shit that is like 5 mins old compared to eternity in Shadowlands then its nothing and anything you do in life doesn't matter.
    "They would die anyway" ho-ly-fuck. Ye sure, let's kill thousands of civilians by BBQ, because one day they will die anyway. You also conveniently dodged the fact, that she also sent them to the Maw for hardcore soul torture. And just because SHE thinks life is meaningless, doesn't give her any goddamn right to decide that for others by killing them. Your excuses are just next level.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-01-25 at 05:25 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Such ideology/thinking was tried in deozens of other games and anime and all sorts of fiction and it always fails. Its also a common point of view shared by every second villain.
    Life has a point in the wow universe in relation to death, it enables eternity for souls. The way the universe is structured Life is meant to be fodder and death would be the end goal

  10. #230
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Better Blizz not make every other faction entirely toothless. But since they did forsaken cannot exist in such setting. So Blizz have to either make all other races "harder" or "soften up" the forsaken. Guess what they will choose?
    They can also do nothing which given that blizzard fucks up everything it touches would be the best outcome.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Those undead elves make no sense, not because corruption cant happen but because of how they mirror forsaken but... somehow they just LOVE their "Arthas".

    "Ignored"? You were robbed of Arthas kill, sure. But then? Cata in EK is Forsaken Fiesta with all the bells and whistles you can beg for. And later their prominence in the Horde only grew.

    And no, night elves lost all their character and were reduced to some kind of... "wallmart high elves" for the Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I also would not trust someone who resorts to extremist methods to build a better system. In the end she will just make another system, even more fucked up and cruel then previous one. Same as Reds did in Russia.
    tbc there is a single quest of an apotecary in hellfire.
    wrath there is howling fjiord and a town in dragonblight.
    cata there is only levelling zone in EK, thats all (and its true for every race). in the 80s zones the forsaken are MIA.
    pandaria. completely mia, there is only a "shadowdancer" thats a comedic relif. and a sylvanas line before zaela.
    wod. completely mia. there is only the """"chain"""" of the frost mage guard that explore the connection of draenor fungus and the plague.
    legion. half stromheim. thats all. post levelling the forsaken were MIA, to be fair, after nighthold the entire horde is MIA
    bfa, thats the only expansion with forsaken max level content. something like 15 years for something, yay, at what price, the entire horde became red alliance(wallmart helves my ass)....
    shadowland. apparently even in the fucking death themed exp the npcs call you living. frankly the race is dead, so fuck blizz.
    12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    They can also do nothing which given that blizzard fucks up everything it touches would be the best outcome.
    If they do nothing NOW then its too late for that. They should have stopped before BfA. They didnt so now they have to take action.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    tbc there is a single quest of an apotecary in hellfire.
    wrath there is howling fjiord and a town in dragonblight.
    cata there is only levelling zone in EK, thats all (and its true for every race). in the 80s zones the forsaken are MIA.
    pandaria. completely mia, there is only a "shadowdancer" thats a comedic relif. and a sylvanas line before zaela.
    wod. completely mia. there is only the """"chain"""" of the frost mage guard that explore the connection of draenor fungus and the plague.
    legion. half stromheim. thats all. post levelling the forsaken were MIA, to be fair, after nighthold the entire horde is MIA
    bfa, thats the only expansion with forsaken max level content. something like 15 years for something, yay, at what price, the entire horde became red alliance(wallmart helves my ass)....
    shadowland. apparently even in the fucking death themed exp the npcs call you living. frankly the race is dead, so fuck blizz.
    You never even played Alliance, how can you talk about knowing its plot and/or how races were changed to fit it?
    I would prefer extinction to the state we came to right now. Its humiliating and subhuman.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    I loathe how much she pampered to the Horde on that day. You're one of the most talented sorceres -Ice Nova everyone and make them listen. Promise to father that you'll personally freeze and shatter any hordie that goes back on non-aggression deal. Follow up on your promise. Problem solved.

    But, despite this she is NOT responsible "for death of our king, and a lot of our people including your cousin and couple of your friends". She didn't side with orcs, she didn't kill anyone. She didn't put them into that fight. Quite the opposite - she tried to stop this fight from happening. All she did after that - is to stand aside. And while, again, I think it was idiotic, the only ones responsible for deaths that day were people charging into fight and Horde killing them.
    she let the horde troops in, to finish the war... were her intentions good? yes, is she at least partialy responsible for her father and a lot of soldiers dying? YES, she even admit it herself in bfa...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    This pathetic shit again. Yeah, right, eVuL eNeMy that started 1st war with Horde. Oh wait... Horde did. Well, 2nd one. Nope, Horde again. 3rd one! What, Horde did it? Maybe fourth is a lucky number? Naaah... Horde.
    ehm... 1st and 2nd (although i dont realy know why its divided, as its pretty much the same war, just moving to bigger area) was indeed started by old horde (although ignoring the burning legion hand behind it is a bit dishonest)
    3rd war (events of wc3) was started by burning legion
    and 4th war that recently ended, was declared by Varian in wotlk, that was just "on hold" couple times but never ended till now, so yeah, alliance started that one

    perhaps learning the very basic lore before trying to be smartass could help so you dont look like jackass...

    btw, i have not said alliance started the wars before, i just said they were enemies, which they indeed were... and they were enemies bcs alliance rejected them after they regained control, they could be allies but alliance said no so they had to join horde or face extinction alone, so who is to blame if not alliance...
    they definitely had no issue accepting worgen, void elf or Calia herself...
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-01-25 at 05:30 PM.

  14. #234
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    If they do nothing NOW then its too late for that. They should have stopped before BfA. They didnt so now they have to take action.
    That can be easily resolved - calia dies from high cholesterol (we will learn that this is one huge weakness of lightforged undead) and forsaken story is put on hold for next 10 years. Easy.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    That can be easily resolved - calia dies from high cholesterol (we will learn that this is one huge weakness of lightforged undead) and forsaken story is put on hold for next 10 years. Easy.
    Dosent solve any existing issues, thats the problem. Same as the overarching horde issues.

    And lets not even get started about the state Alliance was left in.

  16. #236
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Dosent solve any existing issues, thats the problem. Same as the overarching horde issues.

    And lets not even get started about the state Alliance was left in.
    But there are now issues. People who like forsaken are happy about nothing changing, and people who like complaining about forsaken for past 15 years are also happy since they don't need to look for new hobby. A win/win situation.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    But there are now issues. People who like forsaken are happy about nothing changing, and people who like complaining about forsaken for past 15 years are also happy since they don't need to look for new hobby. A win/win situation.
    Thats why i never lead discussions with people like you. Because you place your (failing) attempts at being smartassess over actually talking about the issue.

    So let me get a shot at it: Calia becoming a forsaken leader is also a win/win situation. People who are tired of edgelords ruining their narrative are happy. Edgelords can be even edgier from now on, whining about Calia and the "Alliance pawns"!

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Sylvanas founded the forsaken and made them strong. Calia is just an alliance character in disguise who knows nothing about the forsaken.
    Sylvanas didn't make them strong she used them as a human shield and she sabotaged their chance at meeting living loved ones again.

    Calia and the Forsaken were both betrayed by someone they knew and loved. Sure Calia survived but they both had the same experience of betrayal while Sylvanas was attacked and slain by a monster she really had no connection to.


    Also Calia is a "sexy" special undead with a boy toy. She's literally Sylvanas 2.0.

    Lillian Voss is a super undead who quickly bent the knee to Sylvanas for some reason. You really want a leader who betrays their ideals and just follows orders?

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Don't care for Calia, and I play alliance, she doesn't come across as very Hordy...
    You should see her after a few drinks! She becomes a complete horde

  20. #240
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Thats why i never lead discussions with people like you. Because you place your (failing) attempts at being smartassess over actually talking about the issue.

    So let me get a shot at it: Calia becoming a forsaken leader is also a win/win situation. People who are tired of edgelords ruining their narrative are happy. Edgelords can be even edgier from now on, whining about Calia and the "Alliance pawns"!
    Your argument would make sense if we actually ever saw forsaken fans want calia. Because so far the only people who want her are the ones who always disliked that race.

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