Calia will ruin the forsaken

[Alanar]

i do hope they don't choose Calia so that everyone that was complaining about her would realize how premature the complaints were but, then that would turn into you see blizz listens they chose to change their minds because of the fan backlash.

Yea, alot of the complaints are about that she is suddenly involved in alot of thimgs for no real reason outside she is the sister of Arthas and they will likely share the screen in the future. We saw her helpin? the new dark rangers, but outside of those things I have yet to see some actual story for her.

I would say for Calia for the forsaken is just to soon, for that reason alone Lilian is better, but they both kinda boring at this point sadly.

[Muxtar]

So is the Alliance a Blue Horde then because we are not currently trying to murder you all? Because this is the kind of exageration I meant. Pure memes and headcannon stated as fact. Proof is something else entirely.

You just started demagogy and twisting of facts here, so I see no point to continue.

They allowed Jaina to build her city a stone's throw from their capital. Sounds very peaceful to me.

Jaina was not part of Alliance at that time. Moreso, she allowed to kill the king of one of Alliance nations.

Or, like me, they favour a coherent world building and consequent story and find the enjoyment of a small group of folks that need to act out their inner super villain an acceptable cost. Again what you do in your headcannon does not interest me. Enjoy it, but it is not the canon story.

Your wish to bland everything to golden-alliance state is not a canon (yet, alas) and is just your pure imagination.

Her actions had the logic and reason of a sociopath that cared for nothing and no one but herself, read Edge of Night, read the Lich King book. Accept. Her character did not change one bit since then, only the scale of her crimes.
Even now where she is literally trying to destroy the universe and talks about how she will free us, everyone knows she does it for herself and no one else. She thinks fate has been unfair to her so instead of accepting that she will destroy everyone lifes. You can't be more selfish and self-centered then that.

She developed a lot since WotLK times, you just have to play starting Cataclysm quests for Forsaken. But you won't do so, and will keep claiming bullshit based on your hate towards that character.
Writers destroyed Sylvanas character from BfA onwards, turning it into some laughstock, that I can agree with.

Just because many people agree does not make it a fact. Especially on the internet. Most of these people are just sore they weren't allowed to destroy the Alliance for good in BFA and want their Dark Lady back.

Well, it is a fact for me and many more people. For you and your kin the fact is that present lore is good and healthy. It is called opinions.

- - - Updated - - -

Yea, alot of the complaints are about that she is suddenly involved in alot of thimgs for no real reason outside she is the sister of Arthas and they will likely share the screen in the future. We saw her helpin? the new dark rangers, but outside of those things I have yet to see some actual story for her.

I would say for Calia for the forsaken is just to soon, for that reason alone Lilian is better, but they both kinda boring at this point sadly.

Blizzard finished Forsaken as interesting race with their dumb BfA storytelling and turning Sylvanas into cartoon mustache-twirling villain. Now they are just a bunch of sadsacks, how someone here aptly noticed before. And I don't know just how they can be made as interesting faction to play for again.

[Aresk]

Jaina was not part of Alliance at that time. Moreso, she allowed to kill the king of one of Alliance nations.

When was Jaina not part of the Alliance? I suppose one could make an argument that in MoP she briefly abandoned her Alliance standing when joining the Council of Six, prior to Dalaran joining the Alliance again after the purge, but aside from potentially that time, I'm not aware of any time she was not a member of the Alliance. Was there some big event that I'm forgetting?

[AcidicSyn]

When was Jaina not part of the Alliance? I suppose one could make an argument that in MoP she briefly abandoned her Alliance standing when joining the Council of Six, prior to Dalaran joining the Alliance again after the purge, but aside from potentially that time, I'm not aware of any time she was not a member of the Alliance. Was there some big event that I'm forgetting?

She left the Alliance when she allowed her father to be killed by Rexars forces. Theramore was friendly to the alliance (an ally of the alliance?), but they were otherwise an independent city-state as they had all fought along side the Horde during the war against Archimonde. I'm not sure when she "officially" re-joined the Alliance, but I gotta assume some time before Cata since Alliance were using the island as a staging ground for their invasion of the Barrens. If not then, then definitely after Horde nuked it lol.

[geco]

Just because many people agree does not make it a fact. Especially on the internet. Most of these people are just sore they weren't allowed to destroy the Alliance for good in BFA and want their Dark Lady back.

In a world lacking, Sylvanas did not burn Teldrassil.
And a leader who is a riot is not going to cure a Horde with genocidal tendencies.

Callia's concept is still a bug that doesn't even make sense in the force system. Because the light does not revive you as non-Death revives you as alive. She could revive her as an Orc and make her the leader of ogrimar and she would have had the same sense.

[Muxtar]

When was Jaina not part of the Alliance? I suppose one could make an argument that in MoP she briefly abandoned her Alliance standing when joining the Council of Six, prior to Dalaran joining the Alliance again after the purge, but aside from potentially that time, I'm not aware of any time she was not a member of the Alliance. Was there some big event that I'm forgetting?

Well, right after Jaina arrived to Kalimdor. She was just a head of bunch of Lordaeron refugees, there was no Theramore yet and no established relations with Stormwind or other kingdoms.

[Raisei]

You just started demagogy and twisting of facts here, so I see no point to continue.

Uh huuuh. So you spout internet memes and present them as reality and when I poke you towards that, I am the demagoge and twisting facts?

Jaina was not part of Alliance at that time. Moreso, she allowed to kill the king of one of Alliance nations.

On the contrary. Jaina was the defacto leader of the remnants of the Alliance of Lordaeron for all of WC3. The leadership went to SW only in WoW with the new Alliance. Yes, she allowed the Horde to kill her father, because he was a raving madman and he was not representing the Alliance at this time, hence why he could only mobilize Kul'Tiran forces.

Your wish to bland everything to golden-alliance state is not a canon (yet, alas) and is just your pure imagination.

Well, Golden is one of the chief writers so yeah... what is happening at the moment is canon. Your acceptance is not required.

She developed a lot since WotLK times, you just have to play starting Cataclysm quests for Forsaken. But you won't do so, and will keep claiming bullshit based on your hate towards that character.
Writers destroyed Sylvanas character from BfA onwards, turning it into some laughstock, that I can agree with.

The only development she went through is from being obsessed with vengeance on Arthas to being obsessed with staying alive. The result of the Edge of Night story (which is set right at the start of Cataclysm) which I have read and you clearly did not. All her machinations served the first and then the second goal. Including the creation of more Forsaken so they may serve as unliving shields for her and every kind word she said to them to make them believe she was their only hope in a world that hates them, while in truth she was disgusted by them.

Well, it is a fact for me and many more people. For you and your kin the fact is that present lore is good and healthy. It is called opinions.

Opinions are not facts. That is kinda the point of an opinion.

[Muxtar]

Uh huuuh. So you spout internet memes and present them as reality and when I poke you towards that, I am the demagoge and twisting facts?

Yep. Inventing such bs as Blue Horde is pure demagogy.

On the contrary. Jaina was the defacto leader of the remnants of the Alliance of Lordaeron for all of WC3. The leadership went to SW only in WoW with the new Alliance. Yes, she allowed the Horde to kill her father, because he was a raving madman and he was not representing the Alliance at this time, hence why he could only mobilize Kul'Tiran forces.

Learn some lore. Jaina was just the head of bunch of Lordaeron refugees, they were not official successors of Lordaeron (no one was). And Kul Tiras was member of Alliance since WC2 (as well as Stormwind), with Daelin as its rightful king. Him being madman(?) doesn't mean him somehow not being a king of official Alliance nation anymore. This is just your imagination.

Well, Golden is one of the chief writers so yeah... what is happening at the moment is canon. Your acceptance is not required.

What is happening now is canon (alas), but what is happening right now isn't Calia being Forsaken official leader or Forsaken suddenly becoming light-lovers. Threads as this one is one more tool we as playerbase have to prevent such bullshit from becoming official. And from what I see here, you Calia-defenders are deep minority here, thankfully.

The only development she went through is from being obsessed with vengeance on Arthas to being obsessed with staying alive. The result of the Edge of Night story (which is set right at the start of Cataclysm) which I have read and you clearly did not. All her machinations served the first and then the second goal. Including the creation of more Forsaken so they may serve as unliving shields for her and every kind word she said to them to make them believe she was their only hope in a world that hates them, while in truth she was disgusted by them.

Care to provide a proof of Sylvanas saying/thinking so? From book or in game dialogue. Or is it another of your hatred fantasies about her?

Opinions are not facts. That is kinda the point of an opinion.

You saying that lore is good is not a fact at all - it is just your opinion. But in your head it is a fact to you, because you think so. That's the point.

[Vrinara]

Sweetie. Forsaken ruined themselves. xD

[VladlTutushkin]

Yep. Inventing such bs as Blue Horde is pure demagogy.


Learn some lore. Jaina was just the head of bunch of Lordaeron refugees, they were not official successors of Lordaeron (no one was). And Kul Tiras was member of Alliance since WC2 (as well as Stormwind), with Daelin as its rightful king. Him being madman(?) doesn't mean him somehow not being a king of official Alliance nation anymore. This is just your imagination.


What is happening now is canon (alas), but what is happening right now isn't Calia being Forsaken official leader or Forsaken suddenly becoming light-lovers. Threads as this one is one more tool we as playerbase have to prevent such bullshit from becoming official. And from what I see here, you Calia-defenders are deep minority here, thankfully.


Care to provide a proof of Sylvanas saying/thinking so? From book or in game dialogue. Or is it another of your hatred fantasies about her?


You saying that lore is good is not a fact at all - it is just your opinion. But in your head it is a fact to you, because you think so. That's the point.

Funny how you call for people to rise against Golden and her “pet” but when Danuser almost drove the game off a cliff to be with his “waifu” and slobbered all over her in every possible way... You said nothing. It was fiiiine.

[Muxtar]

Funny how you call for people to rise against Golden and her “pet” but when Danuser almost drove the game off a cliff to be with his “waifu” and slobbered all over her in every possible way... You said nothing. It was fiiiine.

Where did I say nothing? Maybe it was when I said numerous times here that writers fucked off Sylvanas character starting from BfA? Try to read some posts before trying to be cool.

[Tharivor]

I mainly think that for the different races to be ...well... different it does not require one of them to go completely out of its way to be psychopathicly evil. Conflict can arise from much less then that. If the Forsaken were actually a grey race with merits and faults like a well written character I would probably love them, but they simply are not. They are evil and unapologetically so, because that is what Sylvanas taught them to be and encouraged. They act out of hate, jealousy and pure delight in causing death and destruction so that others will share their fate.

This is not a discription that fits a player race. Transcribe it onto a round of D&D. There is a Chaotic/Neutral Good Party (Thrall's Horde) and one player decides to go full on Chaotic Evil and just murder hobos some random NPCs whenever they get the itch. How long could that dynamic work out before the GM is forced tp kill the CE player or the group does? This is not the kind of conflict you want to tell a story.

And the only reason that it has been going on for so long is that Blizzard can't remove a player race once it is implemented. They are aware how bad an idea it was, hence why they are trying to change things now and project all the bad stuff of the Forsaken onto Sylvanas.

I wonder, have you ever actually played a Forsaken character? Because they are not a Chaotic evil "murder hobo some random npc because they feel like it" race. Certainly they have a proclivity to spite, but for the most part their evil is very specifically targeted against the remaining living humans of Lordaeron. Their evil has for the most part been channelled specifically towards this goal of securing and maintaining their complete control of the land which they view as rightfully theirs- they are not maniacs who desire to conquer the whole of Azeroth or wipe out all life. In fact thats exactly why player Forsaken help drive Putress out of the Undercity; because his desire to wipe out all the living is not the stance of the majority of the race. They are evil, hateful, spiteful, and jealous, but they are not stupid or mindless- they are perfectly able to know when and where to act to reserve their wickedness for their enemies and to maintain their relationship with their more moral allies.

In fact the DnD party analogy is perfect in explaining how the Forsaken fit into the Horde. A good DM will not require that every player in the party has the same alignment- all that is needed is that they are able to put aside their differences and work together towards a common goal. As long as any characters with a more divergent morality keep their extremities to themselves and work with the rest of the group then it can work. And thats exactly what the Forsaken have always done with the Horde- uniting around a common goal of mutual defence against the Alliance and world-ending threats, while keeping their atrocities firmly in-house against the remaining humans of Lordaeron.

Now is such a race ever going to be able to reconcile with the humans of Stormwind or the Alliance in general? No of course not. But in a bipolar world that should be ok- they're not supposed to be on good terms with the Alliance or humanity. I would argue that the push to make every race a carbon-copy alignment wise for which you seem to advocating is exactly what is causing major damage to Warcraft Lore in general and moving the story away from consistency and realism towards writing of the same quality as a cheesy comic book. There is no need for the Forsaken to renounce their resentment towards humanity in order be reconciled to the Alliance, or indeed to Anduin's vision of the Alliance in particular. Just as there is no need for Tyrande to forgive the Horde for the atrocity of Teldrassil or for Genn to accept the Forsaken that destroyed his home and killed his son. Moving beyond the faction conflict, there is also no reason why Thunder Bluff shouldn't be able to host both Grimtotem supremcists and Baine-like pacifists, or for the Night Elves to be led by both Tyrande and Staghelm, or for the Blood Elves to remain tolerant of dark magics. This push to smoothen every edge just creates a more boring 2-dimensional world that becomes less interesting and engaging by the day.

[VladlTutushkin]

I wonder, have you ever actually played a Forsaken character? Because they are not a Chaotic evil "murder hobo some random npc because they feel like it" race. Certainly they have a proclivity to spite, but for the most part their evil is very specifically targeted against the remaining living humans of Lordaeron. Their evil has for the most part been channelled specifically towards this goal of securing and maintaining their complete control of the land which they view as rightfully theirs- they are not maniacs who desire to conquer the whole of Azeroth or wipe out all life. In fact thats exactly why player Forsaken help drive Putress out of the Undercity- because his desire to wipe out all the living is not the stance of the majority of the race.

In fact the DnD party analogy is perfect in explaining how the Forsaken fit into the Horde. A good DM will not require that every player in the party has the same alignment- all that is needed is that they are able to put aside their differences and work together towards a common goal. As long as any characters with a more divergent morality keep their extremities to themselves and work with the rest of the group then it can work. And thats exactly what the Forsaken have always done with the Horde- uniting around a common goal of mutual defence against the Alliance and world-ending threats, while keeping their atrocities firmly in-house against the remaining humans of Lordaeron.

Now is such a race ever going to be able to reconcile with the humans of Stormwind or the Alliance in general? No of course not. But in a bipolar world that should be ok- they're not supposed to be on good terms with the Alliance or humanity. I would argue that the push to make every race a carbon-copy alignment wise for which you seem to advocating is exactly what is causing major damage to Warcraft Lore in general and moving the story away from consistency and realism towards writing of the same quality as a cheesy comic book. There is no need for the Forsaken to renounce their resentment towards humanity in order be reconciled to the Alliance, or indeed to Anduin's vision of the Alliance in particular. Just as there is no need for Tyrande to forgive the Horde for the atrocity of Teldrassil or for Genn to accept the Forsaken that destroyed his home and killed his son. Moving beyond the faction conflict, there is also no reason why Thunder Bluff shouldn't be able to host both Grimtotem supremcists and Baine-like pacifists, or for the Night Elves to be led by both Tyrande and Staghelm, or for the Blood Elves to remain tolerant of dark magics. This push to smoothen every edge just creates a more boring 2-dimensional world that becomes less interesting and engaging by the day.

Because as i said many times before they are not ready... and able i suppose to write such narrative. In the end Alliance always forgives the horde, no matter what atrocities they inflicted upon races of the Alliance. So better not to try and cram anything “extreme” into such plot because it becomes more ridiculous with every another act of extreme cruelty or genocide/extermination wars.

[Soon-TM]

@Tharivor completely agree. I mean, if someone asked me what is the difference between the Alliance and today's Horde, I'd be in quite a problem to give a proper answer. Both factions have Lawful Good™ leaders (or rather Blizzard's take on lawful good ), both adhere to a vague af concept of "honour", and the few outliers from either side (Tyrande, Genn, Talanji) are easily brought back into the fold or depicted as crazy/unreasonable/edgy.

In other words, we have all the disadvantages of the Unifaction, but without any of the benefits.

[Raisei]

Yep. Inventing such bs as Blue Horde is pure demagogy.

And your Red Alliance obviously is not, right? Not to mention that I did not even remotely invent this meme. The "Blue Warchief" is as old as the title High King.

Learn some lore. Jaina was just the head of bunch of Lordaeron refugees, they were not official successors of Lordaeron (no one was). And Kul Tiras was member of Alliance since WC2 (as well as Stormwind), with Daelin as its rightful king. Him being madman(?) doesn't mean him somehow not being a king of official Alliance nation anymore. This is just your imagination.

1) Of course Kul'Tiras was part of the Alliance, BUT Daelins expedition wasn't sanctioned by the rest of the Alliance and if you read what I wrote then you will realize that is what I said.
2) Jaina was the inofficial leader of what was left of the Alliance (of Lordaeron) because King Terenas was dead and Stormwind was not yet in the picture.

Care to provide a proof of Sylvanas saying/thinking so? From book or in game dialogue. Or is it another of your hatred fantasies about her?

Sylvanas digusted with the Forsaken only able to stand their presence because they give her power:

"Before her waited a grotesque, quivering mass of corpses, their armor piecemeal, their bodies broken, the stench unimaginable. Their plaintive, desperate gazes reminded her suddenly of children. They disgusted her. But their need empowered her" - Edge of Night, Page 3

Sylvanas on how she really feels about the Forsaken after Arthas was dead:

"They had been honed into the perfect weapon. Her weapon. And they had struck the killing blow for which she had built them. She cared nothing for their fate.

"Let them perish!" Sylvanas cried. "I am finished with them!"", Edge of Night, Page 4

Sylvanas musing on how the Forsaken are there for her personal protection:

"The army of undead that surrounded and protected the Dark Lady was still hers, body and soul. But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore. They were a bulwark against the infinite. They were to be used wisely, and no fool orc would squander them while she still walked the world of the living." - Edge of Night, Page 7

Here the link to the full story, if this was not enough: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/st...nas-windrunner

You saying that lore is good is not a fact at all - it is just your opinion. But in your head it is a fact to you, because you think so. That's the point.

I never claimed it is a fact, because it is just my opinion.

[Tharivor]

Because as i said many times before they are not ready... and able i suppose to write such narrative. In the end Alliance always forgives the horde, no matter what atrocities they inflicted upon races of the Alliance. So better not to try and cram anything “extreme” into such plot because it becomes more ridiculous with every another act of extreme cruelty or genocide/extermination wars.

I agree and I think Blizzard has actually pushed the recent extremes precisely because they want an excuse to smoothen out the factions. If Sylvanas had remained simply Forsaken leader in Lordaeron its the kind of localised conflict the lore can tolerate (and in fact contrary to recent Anduin nonsense, the old lore never had Lordaeron humans or even Cata Gilneans wanting to forgive the Forsaken- it was a battle to the end on both sides). Leading the whole Horde into an atrocity like Teldrassil however is of such a magnitude and narrative significance it creates a "Horde problem" that needs "solving" for the narrative to advance, which inevitably means Anduin-isation on the Horde side and mindless forgiveness on the Alliance since Blizz can't destroy a player faction. It would be like putting the Scarlet Crusade in charge of the Alliance- extremists only work if they remain on the fringes, not if they take over.

[VladlTutushkin]

I agree and I think Blizzard has actually pushed the recent extremes precisely because they want an excuse to smoothen out the factions. If Sylvanas had remained simply Forsaken leader in Lordaeron its the kind of localised conflict the lore can tolerate (and in fact contrary to recent Anduin nonsense, the old lore never had Lordaeron humans or even Cata Gilneans wanting to forgive the Forsaken- it was a battle to the end on both sides). Leading the whole Horde into an atrocity like Teldrassil however is of such a magnitude and narrative significance it creates a "Horde problem" that needs "solving" for the narrative to advance, which inevitably means Anduin-isation on the Horde side and mindless forgiveness on the Alliance since Blizz can't destroy a player faction. It would be like putting the Scarlet Crusade in charge of the Alliance- extremists only work if they remain on the fringes, not if they take over.

I mostly agree with that aside from the fact thats Scarlett Scrudaers never were part of the Alliance to begin with. They had one ambassador in Stormwind hut only because Stomrwind Church of Light had no idea what Scarletts were and just treated them as another paladin order like Silver Hand which were scattered in Plaguelands.

[Raisei]

I wonder, have you ever actually played a Forsaken character? Because they are not a Chaotic evil "murder hobo some random npc because they feel like it" race. Certainly they have a proclivity to spite, but for the most part their evil is very specifically targeted against the remaining living humans of Lordaeron.

And what did these farmers do to deserve being abducted and used in funny Blight experiments? People here say that it was such suffering for the Forsaken to be forced to turn on their families and kill them, but if they are attacking and killing the few Lordaeronians that still live is that not the same thing, done with complete free will? Or does it only count if you attack your own blood and not your neighbours? Did they swap around when that problem arose?
Nathanos for example did not object in any way to his own nephew being murdered in front of his eyes but we are supposed to believe that when they were forced to do it, it was traumatic?

Their evil has for the most part been channelled specifically towards this goal of securing and maintaining their complete control of the land which they view as rightfully theirs-

Which it is not, nor ever was. Since it was a kingdom the land belonged to their king and his heirs, not the peasants living on it. But I digress.

they are not maniacs who desire to conquer the whole of Azeroth or wipe out all life. In fact thats exactly why player Forsaken help drive Putress out of the Undercity; because his desire to wipe out all the living is not the stance of the majority of the race. They are evil, hateful, spiteful, and jealous, but they are not stupid or mindless- they are perfectly able to know when and where to act to reserve their wickedness for their enemies and to maintain their relationship with their more moral allies.

Yet they are fully capabale of destruction just for destructions sake. Take the Forsaken at Darkshore. They blighted the place just because they could. They had no need of it being blighted, they just enjoyed it.

[Tharivor]

And what did these farmers do to deserve being abducted and used in funny Blight experiments? People here say that it was such suffering for the Forsaken to be forced to turn on their families and kill them, but if they are attacking and killing the few Lordaeronians that still live is that not the same thing, done with complete free will? Or does it only count if you attack your own blood and not your neighbours? Did they swap around when that problem arose?
Nathanos for example did not object in any way to his own nephew being murdered in front of his eyes but we are supposed to believe that when they were forced to do it, it was traumatic?

Morally? Nothing. The Forsaken however view it as their land and will strive to wipe out anyone else living (or un-living) there. Again, I'm not arguing the Forsaken aren't evil- my point is that they have very clear local boundaries for their evilness that are only really unacceptable to the Alliance. They are not a world-ending threat, they are not a problem for the rest of the Horde (who might object to their methods, but in realpolitik terms would rather turn a blind eye and keep Lordaeron out of Alliance hands), and they are not a problem for the narrative. There is no pressing reason why they need to be rewritten for the world to make sense. You might like them to be rewritten because you prefer a narrative where all races/nations/factions have a homogenised identical alignment and motivation, but the lore makes perfect sense with them as they are.

Which it is not, nor ever was. Since it was a kingdom the land belonged to their king and his heirs, not the peasants living on it. But I digress.

Leaving aside the question as to whether or not Lordaeron even operated on the same kind of feudal basis we see in Medieval Europe (We see more independent farmers than indentured serfs, and the idea that Calia is campaigning to reinstall such a morally abhorrent political system would certainly dim her halo), the Kingdom of Lordaeron is destroyed. The Forsaken base their claim on the far more simple and less legalistic fact that its their land because they lived there and now they still un-live there. They are no longer citizens of a kingdom that no longer exists anymore and they have no obligation to obey Calia anymore than Queen Azshara can walk into Darnassus and expect Tyrande to bow before her.

Yet they are fully capabale of destruction just for destructions sake. Take the Forsaken at Darkshore. They blighted the place just because they could. They had no need of it being blighted, they just enjoyed it.

Capable certainly. But practically they have little interest to do so outside of Lordaeron. They only ended up in Darkshore because Sylvanas ordered them to march there, otherwise they would just be happily blighting to their hearts content in Lordaeron instead.

[VladlTutushkin]

Morally? Nothing. The Forsaken however view it as their land and will strive to wipe out anyone else living (or un-living) there. Again, I'm not arguing the Forsaken aren't evil- my point is that they have very clear local boundaries for their evilness that are only really unacceptable to the Alliance. They are not a world-ending threat, they are not a problem for the rest of the Horde (who might object to their methods, but in realpolitik terms would rather turn a blind eye and keep Lordaeron out of Alliance hands), and they are not a problem for the narrative. There is no pressing reason why they need to be rewritten for the world to make sense. You might like them to be rewritten because you prefer a narrative where all races/nations/factions have a homogenised identical alignment and motivation, but the lore makes perfect sense with them as they are.



Leaving aside the question as to whether or not Lordaeron even operated on the same kind of feudal basis we see in Medieval Europe (We see more independent farmers than indentured serfs, and the idea that Calia is campaigning to reinstall such a morally abhorrent political system would certainly dim her halo), the Kingdom of Lordaeron is destroyed. The Forsaken base their claim on the far more simple and less legalistic fact that its their land because they lived there and now they still un-live there. They are no longer citizens of a kingdom that no longer exists anymore and they have no obligation to obey Calia anymore than Queen Azshara can walk into Darnassus and expect Tyrande to bow before her.



Capable certainly. But practically they have little interest to do so outside of Lordaeron. They only ended up in Darkshore because Sylvanas ordered them to march there, otherwise they would just be happily blighting to their hearts content in Lordaeron instead.

Just had that thought - what if Alliance offers to secede all land in Arathi (and essentially everywhere in Northern EK all the way until Tandol’s Span) and forever withdrew all claims to Lordaeron and nearby lands in return for Horde’s abandonment of Forsaken and wipeout of all undead there, be they Forsaken or Scourge? Sort of “i rather see orcs live there then undead” type of deal? Also, for faction that whines about “honor” so much horde allows “realpolitik” to affect them when it really shouldnt.

Forsaken in the Horde was and IS a titanic mistake. Same as night elves in the Alliance.