This loot system has to go.

[huth]

False... wq item level sales with your covenant renown.

No, it's correct. It scales with your iLvl. It is capped based on your Renown.

[Alvito]

I have really enjoyed picking stygia from the weekly vault for the last 3 weeks. The game seems to think all I want or need is rings and back pieces. In my gf raid 4 people haven't picked up a piece of loot from full raid clears this month. This system sucks.

[dispatchcrab]

I have really enjoyed picking stygia from the weekly vault for the last 3 weeks. The game seems to think all I want or need is rings and back pieces. In my gf raid 4 people haven't picked up a piece of loot from full raid clears this month. This system sucks.

Quit then I will be happy to see you go

[Marrilaife]

Why do people want WoW to be a second job?

Vast majority of people who want this are people who either have no job or unsatisfactory menial 9-5 job and sinking excessive amounts of time into WOW is their only strategy to feel better than other people, so they want time sank to be the defining factor who is a "good player".

It's the same situation in many pvp-oriented Asian MMOs with uncapped levelling where the guy who is online 24/7 and maybe even buys xp boosters from the cash shop can roflstomp you in world pvp because he's higher level. Or people who buy p2w packs in mobile games so their character / team can always win over f2p plebs. It's "I have no skill but this 1 other resource, how can I turn it into an illusion I'm more skilled than others?" It's why wow pvp with "templates" failed because people didn't want a fair battle, they wanted to outgear their opponents.

Legion / BFA with its endless grinds for AP, leggos, essences, benthic gear, corruptions, you name it was an endless fiesta of "haves" lording over "have nots", worst part was some of these like legion leggos were luck based originally so you needed both luck and excessive amount of time sank. Guilds broke apart, people burnt out, shit was real. People lost raid spots over "you aren't grinding as much as the others so you're dragging the team down". Worst part is people tend to dismiss these grinds because all they remember is after 3 patches the grind was finally lessened and made casual-friendly and that's the only version that stays in people's heads.

- - - Updated - - -

Quit then I will be happy to see you go

"Quit if you don't like it" is sadly the only way to make devs get their heads out of the asses, the only time they "fix" anything is when they see tragic drop in subs. On the other hand, so far every expansion saw a sharp drop of subs after initial months of excitement and trumpeted success so if I were you I wouldn't be so happy to see people quit left and right...

[Guilford]

The problem is you then. Despite all the mythic raiders constantly clamoring that they play for the "challenge", they are surprisingly gear-obsessed. Just come to terms with the fact that the reason you want BiS gear and don't want others to have good gear is so that you can look down on them and stomp them in random BGs.

Raiders stomping in random BGs lol. Your average 1600 rated player would eat their lunch because they'll have 28% vers amped by the trinkets to the sub 10% someone mythic raid geared will have. You know, unless they put in the work to PvP...which they all are.

[arkanon]

The problem is you then. Despite all the mythic raiders constantly clamoring that they play for the "challenge", they are surprisingly gear-obsessed. Just come to terms with the fact that the reason you want BiS gear and don't want others to have good gear is so that you can look down on them and stomp them in random BGs.

I have never seen or heard a mythic raider say this. Where are you seeing them say this? Do you have some links? I mean you say it's all of them, and make it sound extremely common to see this claim, can you back it up at all? Or is this just your go-to strawman?

Secondly, mythic raid gear isn't what you use to "stomp" ppl in a bg.

[Master Guns]

Or, you have been lucky in comparison to other people.

This is the biggest problem right now. People with good luck believe that everything is fine, and refuse to accept that those with bad luck are starved for gear.

"bad luck" is just that - bad luck. That's a bad luck problem, not a system problem. I don't know ANYONE that I play with, and I play with a LOT of people, who have had any issues getting over 200 ilvl by now, I just don't. I'm in a heroic raiding guild, know lots of people. 5+ RL friends who all play too, we're all 205-213. I'm actually on the LOW end. It isn't hard, dude. Just get out there and play and stop running LFR/M0's. Run some keys boo, high keys. All my friends who actually play more than me, as I said I play VERY CASUALLY, they're all getting into their high teens in the 200's. Just. Play.

[kevincuomo]

Item Levels in this Xpac are TERRIBLE. Raiding heroic feels not fun and the only thing you need to do is PVP. M+ feels like trash.. its all bad. I am already bored and tons of my friends have quit already, mostly melee because melee is junk in M+ due to affix's.

Blizzard needs someone with a brain to start making good decisions.

[Kallisto]

A PvE player does not have to do PVP, you have not once given an argument to why they 'HAVE' too

They don't.

You just have people on this forum that have basically said that if they can't be super BiS within the first few weeks they might as well uninstall because they can't force their epeen on people.

This is the wow community. They don't care about anything apart from making the plebs know their place while they dream of being the next limit/Echo recruit (even though they have as much chance as the southern redneck Republican voter who thinks they're not poor but temporarily embarrassed billionaires who are just one week away from becoming the next Elon)

[Sansnom]

I have never seen or heard a mythic raider say this. Where are you seeing them say this? Do you have some links? I mean you say it's all of them, and make it sound extremely common to see this claim, can you back it up at all? Or is this just your go-to strawman?

Maybe not directly, maybe not mythic raiders specifically but in this forum at least, there has been arguments about people acquiring raid gear or close to equivalent gear outside of raids.

There has been complaints about LFR dropping gear, WF, TF etc. So there is certainly one portion of players that are more interested in what they are getting and what others are getting.

[Argorwal]

"bad luck" is just that - bad luck. That's a bad luck problem, not a system problem. I don't know ANYONE that I play with, and I play with a LOT of people, who have had any issues getting over 200 ilvl by now, I just don't. I'm in a heroic raiding guild, know lots of people. 5+ RL friends who all play too, we're all 205-213. I'm actually on the LOW end. It isn't hard, dude. Just get out there and play and stop running LFR/M0's. Run some keys boo, high keys. All my friends who actually play more than me, as I said I play VERY CASUALLY, they're all getting into their high teens in the 200's. Just. Play.

He already got exposed for lying about his gear, claiming to be in all 197 covenant stuff while his raider.io page has him at 210.

--- snip ---

Another example of why it can be hard to take forum posts seriously when players whine about something but won’t link their character.

[TheRevenantHero]

What does Venari even do for your power? thats the Maw guy right? I literally have done nothing with that outside of whats required to progress convenant. Thats probably a waste of time.

If you want more gear / power, then all of those anima dailies are a waste of time as you get more anima just doing the weekend events / weekly pvp quests.
Calling are useless for anything other than gold and conduits from what i noticed in the first 2 weeks of the expansion before i never did another one.

I don’t like PvP) - thats probly your issue. Youre avoiding a major part of possible player power because "you dont like it".


Sounds like shadowlands gearing would be fine if you prioritized better and didnt skip things because "you dont like them".

PvP SHOULDN'T be a major part of player power. I shouldn't be forced into pvp for pve gear. That's utter garbage game design.

[Thrif]

I have really enjoyed picking stygia from the weekly vault for the last 3 weeks. The game seems to think all I want or need is rings and back pieces. In my gf raid 4 people haven't picked up a piece of loot from full raid clears this month. This system sucks.

Well, it makes me glad I'm not alone. I've only got 4 pieces that's good, 11 that would be upgrades, and over the last 3 weeks, all 7 vault items has decided that they all want to be one of the 4 that I already have. I've gained 1% leech though, so that's good.

[Lurker1]

I love how everyone claims "people are leaving in droves" but where is the proof of this?

O/t I haven't touched a single raid and I'm sitting at 215, I also have only been able to get to 1407 arena rating so gear is able to be obtained. That being said I do think a badge system would be nice and boost pve gearing to be a little more in line with pvp.

They proof is always there butts imho!

[Guilford]

PvP SHOULDN'T be a major part of player power. I shouldn't be forced into pvp for pve gear. That's utter garbage game design.

Weep. If someone does all content they SHOULD have a competitive edge over someone that exclusively does raiding/pvp/m+.

[Thrif]

Weep. If someone does all content they SHOULD have a competitive edge over someone that exclusively does raiding/pvp/m+.

Should a major part of player power come from it though? Since you know, that was actually what he argued, and nobody has said anything about a competitive edge.

[Vasilisa]

They both should give equal amount of power / gear.

[Yarathir]

Man, the denial of the flaws of this system is going to age as poorly as denials of the flaws of Azerite Powers and Corruption.

[Elias01]

Anecdotal, but I have 15 mythic raid kills and have yet to get a single drop, which is definitely just being extremely unlucky, especially with some people having 3-5 drops already in my raid group.

I'm fully aware of the "don't raid if you just want gear" argument but it really sucks being left behind in performance just because of being unlucky.

I checked your profile. You have killed 0 mythic bosses.

[Argorwal]

Should a major part of player power come from it though? Since you know, that was actually what he argued, and nobody has said anything about a competitive edge.

All 3 paths provide 226 gear in every slot.

Maybe an argument for 233 weapons from mythic+ like raids and PvP.