Why doesn't reflect magic last for 5 second regardless of reflects?

[Magical Mudcrab]

being able to outheal healers is also pretty meaningful defensive

For Prot, sure; however, Prot's power is aberrant, though it's not incredibly powerful given how the ladder looks (i.e.: Prot Paladin are relatively rare and become rarer the higher rated you go). That said, we shouldn't be looking at this in terms of a Tank spec. vs. a DPS spec., we should be looking at it in terms of comparing DPS specs, which we already know that Warriors are significantly better than Ret Paladins in 2s, 3s, and RBGs. The reasons for this is because Ret's comparatively low mobility, reliance on CD stacking, and lack of defensive CDs (i.e.: reliance on DS). If Warriors wants buffs to one of their defensives they're obviously going to have to compensate by having another defensive weakened or removed, depending on what effect of Spell Reflect someone would want to last over the 5 second duration. The idea that because Paladin have bubble that means that any and every class should be able to have any form of immunity for any reason, regardless of whether their toolkit is already incredibly performant, does not fly.

[Strawberry]

Easy: Because CASTING 16 spells in 4 seconds is broken, REFLECTING 16 spells in 4 seconds while still doing your own damage is just asinine.

They didn't miss this in the testing phase.

It doesn't last 100% of the time. So how is reflecting those spells being insane? I pop spell reflect, the enemy should adapt, like pvp is supposed to be.

Besides, spell reflect IS broken. How many times have I been hit by a spell after pressing the button 1 second before it hits me.

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I think most people replying here don't even play a warrior.

[Glasse]

Buffing the current FOTM spec doesn't sound smart.

How about buffing the other 2 specs that are actually fun to play so that I'm not forced to play arms?

Spell reflect should 100% last the entire duration, whether it reflects a spell or not. The spell damage reduction should stay after you reflect a spell.

I know this is a PvP post but it should definitely work like that in PvE

[Specialka]

This sounds like an l2p problem tbh. Warriors are doing just fine even in high-level PvP.

Spell Reflect would be ABSURD if it was just 5 seconds of basically being immune to spells.

Cloak of Shadows?

[Th3Scourge]

This is most certainly a L2P problem. Warriors are fine

[Zendhal The Black]

Give Rogues insane armor and health and we'll talk.

It's not like almost all classes have some/most of the damage to be magical so this "insane armor" you're talking about is as usefull as wet toilet paper

[Zeusy]

Warrior is already probably the best melee due to its utility, and probably the best 2s spec overall if they are venthyr.. Please dont ask for buffs based on BGs....

[kukkamies]

Warriors are the best melee by a wide margin already. Why would they need any buffs? More like remove Spell Reflect or nerf it instead. They were already better than sub rogues before sub rogues got hit by nerfbat. Way better than ret paladins that were nerfed too.
I don't see why warrior hasn't got nerfed yet

[Specialka]

Because you're not just reflecting those 16 spells. You're reflecting every other spell as well, given the suggestion.

You become completely immune to spells, with no downside. You become an anti-caster that has extreme defense against melee. Everyone knows people funnel their burst into one window - A single ability to counter an entire subtype of damage, with no downside, is a silly ask, ESPECIALLY when it's meant to be the damage type you defend against the least.



How, exactly, is the caster who just popped his entire load, supposed to "adapt" to the fact that his burst is wasted?

They become a wet noodle, as PvP always happens, which is why this change wasn't made.



That's literally the intended use. That's not "broken."



I think you aren't thinking about the game at large, and are only thinking about what's good for Warrior. Which is a bad take.

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Give Rogues insane armor and health and we'll talk.

A Rogue without Cloak melts to ANY magic user. A Warrior without Spell Reflect has a multitude of tools to survive the incoming damage (both magic and non-magic), including but not limited to lower incoming damage to begin with thanks to higher general defenses.

Well, I remember SL launch where I died in less than 3 sec to any sub rogue. Even now, rogue is still strong against most casters even without cloak. For what 4 or 6 sec?, a caster can't do anything but run when face with cloak of shadow.

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Well, I remember SL launch where I died in less than 3 sec to any sub rogue. Even now, rogue is still strong against most casters even without cloak. For what 4 or 6 sec?, a caster can't do anything but run when face with cloak of shadow.

And obviously a rogue has not other tool to survice a burst , ups did they remove blind ? Or KS ? Or Vanish ?

[Zendhal The Black]

Warriors are the best melee by a wide margin already. Why would they need any buffs? More like remove Spell Reflect or nerf it instead. They were already better than sub rogues before sub rogues got hit by nerfbat. Way better than ret paladins that were nerfed too.
I don't see why warrior hasn't got nerfed yet

They might be really strong in PvP, but any changes for pvp is hindering the PvE part which is at really bad state right now (we're looking at another 5% damage boost for both dps specs)

Spell reflect reflecting everything during 5 sec duration makes sense for prot in PvP and PvE (it was like that in Legion with artifact traits) For Arms and Fury I agree that 1 spell reflected is reasonable

[kukkamies]

They might be really strong in PvP, but any changes for pvp is hindering the PvE part which is at really bad state right now (we're looking at another 5% damage boost for both dps specs)

Spell reflect reflecting everything during 5 sec duration makes sense for prot in PvP and PvE (it was like that in Legion with artifact traits) For Arms and Fury I agree that 1 spell reflected is reasonable

Pve is fine ye, they should make pvp only changed. Like the ret nerf was specifically "In pvp combat heal less", in pve no changes.
It's so strange they buff the best melee in pvp while nerfing the ones that aren't as good. Wonder what are they thinking

[Magical Mudcrab]

Warrior is already probably the best melee due to its utility, and probably the best 2s spec overall if they are venthyr.. Please dont ask for buffs based on BGs....

This has already been brought up in this thread -- Warriors are already the strongest of all melee classes, and is easily one of the top tier damage dealers in general, well represented in 2s, 3s, and RBGs above 2k. The request for the spell reflect change is silly and would either necessitate the removal of or severe reductions to other survivability CDs to balance it out, and would likely also require a rework of spell reflect to become a simple immunity rather than actually reflecting the spells while still having the aforementioned changes. The fact is that this change isn't needed.

[Specialka]

And baiting out a cloak is very simple, because to a caster, a rogue is made of paper. It does not take much, and you intend to do it, knowing that if you can bait it and avoid the rogue long enough, you stand a chance at killing him.

Yes, you as a caster are also squishy - It comes with the job. Kiting is part of your toolkit. If you aren't willing to use it, you're bad at caster. Yes it's difficult - A counter is meant to be difficult to re-counter, and as previously mentioned, the game isn't built to make every 1v1 100% equal and balanced.

So Cloak of Shadow is overkill against a caster, thank you for proving my point.

[Alanar]

paladins get 8 seconds,thats not the issue,the issue would be its short cd

Nah, both would be a disaster.

Warriors are more then fine, this is a l2p thing.

[Specialka]

No, this is a "learn to play" issue at it's finest. Cloak isn't overkill - It's strong, yes, intentionally, because a Rogue is easy to kill without it, as I said before.

"Overkill" is not the right word for that.

So now casters can kill rogues in 1v1 ? Rogues will always have the advantage against casters. If a rogue dies to a caster 1v1, there is a severe l2p issue from the rogue.

[Hellobolis]

This sounds like an l2p problem tbh. Warriors are doing just fine even in high-level PvP.

Spell Reflect would be ABSURD if it was just 5 seconds of basically being immune to spells.

eh monks got that thing where if you attack them they heal too.

also, didnt it work that way with the legion artifact anyways? only for prot i guess.

[Specialka]

I didn't say casters can kill rogues 1v1.

I in fact directly said that wouldn't be the case with:



That doesn't make a cooldown overkill, because the game isn't built around 1v1. Shocking, isn't it?

And in 1v1, Cloak is overkill against a caster. A rogue does not need to use it.

But pvp was, is and will be always a joke in wow anyway.

[Strawberry]

I reflected a pyroblast. Didn't even take the mage's shield off.
So how is a 5 seconds constant spell reflect a problem?
This game is not 1v1, it's never 1v1. And no one cares about 1v1 except Goldshire wankers.
The competitive arena matches last for 10 minutes. Casters can afford not to cast for 5 seconds.

[Cypheo]

Is this a joke? How can the most op/tanky spec complain about survivability? Arms defensive toolkit needs a huge nerf, not buffs lol.

[madcowdy]

The only change I would like to see is that yo can only reflect direct hit from spell instead of randomly reflecting mage shield damage