I7-3770 non K. GPU upgrade ideas

[bdow99]

Just wondering what would be the best GPU I could use with an older processor? (mind you this is a HP Envy pc where i have already upgraded some parts)
System details:
I7-3770
12GB Ram
500Gb Samsung SSD x 2
Seasonic 650 Bronze

[Toybox]

What are you using right now? I had a 3770k paired with a GTX970 until last year & it was rare I found myself CPU bottlenecked.

[bdow99]

What are you using right now? I had a 3770k paired with a GTX970 until last year & it was rare I found myself CPU bottlenecked.

Right now I am using at 1650 Super. Didnt know if upgrading to a 2060 or 3060 (if and when they ever become available)

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Resolution? Frame rate? Games you want to play? What you currently use?

I dont play anything beyond 1080p. I would love to be at 60+fps. I generally only play WOW but do occasionally play GTA V. I would like to be able to run two monitors at once.

[bdow99]

Either one would get the job done for you. The bad news is GPU stock is expected to be spotty at best for at least another couple months.

Awesome thank you very much! Yeah GPU stock is dismal right now.

[Fuiking]

Either one would get the job done for you. The bad news is GPU stock is expected to be spotty at best for at least another couple months.

I can concur, im like placed 380 on a queue for the Ryzen 9 5900X...(reached that spot after people cancelling) which has not moved since early december. Almost no stock has arrived for the 5900X and 5950X so far im aware in Europe. possibly late feb stock will slowly return. With pre-orders slated to be worked away by mid-late march. But its a big *IF*.

(There was, until recently some limited stock in Germany, but the price hikes are insane, ordered/paid mine for 450 euros but current prices are near the 650-750 mark now, combine that with a nice order of other components... yeah im not cancelling mine. Luckily I dont need those parts yet)

[Kagthul]

I would like to be able to run two monitors at once.

Unless you're talking about running the game across two monitors (dont recommend - puts a line in the middle of your view), you can already do that.

Second monitors take almost no GPU resources if you aren't running anything 3D on them. That 1650 should have plenty of outputs.

If for some reason it DOES cause an issue.. you also have a 3770, which has an iGPU - just use the onboard video to run your 2nd monitor (HDMI/DP/DVI port on your MoBo).

[Nuba]

Right now I am using at 1650 Super. Didnt know if upgrading to a 2060 or 3060 (if and when they ever become available)

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I dont play anything beyond 1080p. I would love to be at 60+fps. I generally only play WOW but do occasionally play GTA V. I would like to be able to run two monitors at once.

at two monitors anything above a 1660 super will be fine for 1080 60fps, honestly? I would upgrade my monitor to a 144hz or 240hz at 1080p (use your current monitor as second monitor after you buy a new one) since you'll see a huge increase in image quality compared to what youre playing at right now before buying anything else.
Seriously, the jump in perceived image quality when going from 60hz to 144hz or higher is ridiculous, you'll wonder why you havent done this before.

Then, since 1080p is a lot more cpu bound than gpu bound I would go for a 2060 (or a 5600XT, I recommend the 5600xt) and pair it up with a R5 3600 and good pair of ddr4 memory sticks (2x8 3600mhz). I would buy the R5 3600 and the mobo+ram before the GPU, the increase you'll feel will already be significant
keep the storage and psu, yours are still bis

[Djuntas]

I think a 1060 or 1070 would be an idea OP. See my specs in signature...My CPU is not bottle necked in wow ever. 1080p low/medium.

[Nuba]

I think a 1060 or 1070 would be an idea OP. See my specs in signature...My CPU is not bottle necked in wow ever. 1080p low/medium.

you understand that wow shoots up to 600+ fps in certain zones, including all arenas, right? I can guarantee you that you can barely get 60+ fps on a populated area, let alone in a map like AV. 4590 was good 5 years ago, but right now wow can and will benefit from any cpu upgrade if you intend to play with low latency input.
wow is a very well optimized game and scales with core increase, in both count and ipc, more than most games.

if, with the same gpu, a 5800x can get 650fps on the same zone your 4590 can only get 60, then yeah your cpu is a bottleneck. if it bothers you or not then its another story.

[Kagthul]

you understand that wow shoots up to 600+ fps in certain zones, including all arenas, right?

lolwut. Maybe when no one is doing anything. Even then.. thats because there's only six players at most.

I can guarantee you that you can barely get 60+ fps on a populated area, let alone in a map like AV. 4590 was good 5 years ago, but right now wow can and will benefit from any cpu upgrade if you intend to play with low latency input.
wow is a very well optimized game and scales with core increase, in both count and ipc, more than most games.

.......

no, not it is not. It literally cant be. NOTHING you said there is correct. nothing.

Its still VERY single thread performance bound. Even LN2 cooled rigs at 6+ghz cant produce hundreds of FPS in crowded zones. Because its a single-thread bottleneck as the game waits on the network thread before it can even start issuing draw calls. With the recent multi-core enhancements, which allow draw calls for AoE affects and light sources to be offloaded to separate threads, it helps a lot, but the entire game still has to wait on the main thread to receive the data from the server.

Wow scales EXTREMELY poorly with more cores (after about 6, there's no gain of any kind, really, and even between 6 and 4 (with HT/SMT) there's not a lot of difference. It scales almost ENTIRELY on clock speed and IPC because of being reliantm on the single main thread before it can split things up to issue draw calls.

This topic has been dealt with in extreme detail.

if, with the same gpu, a 5800x can get 650fps on the same zone your 4590 can only get 60, then yeah your cpu is a bottleneck. if it bothers you or not then its another story.

Well it wont be that big no matter what, so.. yeah. The only way you're getting 500fps in WoW is with a very fast, high IPC CPU and a beastly video card (because with the CPU bottleneck removed, which it is in Arena completely as there are only six players and no stress on the network thread - the GPU is what is determining FPS entirely) and a 4590 with the same GPU would still do several hundred fps.

Hell, my HTPC's Ryzen 5 2400G can get over 200fps in Arena because Arena has only 6 people in it. But it cant get 30fps in Org because WoW is bottlenecked by CPU performance and the 2400G is only a quad-core with relatively low clocks and Zen 1 IPC.

if the OP doesn't want to upgrade his CPU (or cant, because whats available right now where he lives? Maybe nothing), then anything that performs in the range of the 2060 would be fine for his CPU.

[Djuntas]

you understand that wow shoots up to 600+ fps in certain zones, including all arenas, right? I can guarantee you that you can barely get 60+ fps on a populated area, let alone in a map like AV. 4590 was good 5 years ago, but right now wow can and will benefit from any cpu upgrade if you intend to play with low latency input.
wow is a very well optimized game and scales with core increase, in both count and ipc, more than most games.

if, with the same gpu, a 5800x can get 650fps on the same zone your 4590 can only get 60, then yeah your cpu is a bottleneck. if it bothers you or not then its another story.

Mate, you know that app's can just tell you the load? I think I can trust those numbers, even if it might not tell the whole picture. Honestly if all you we're doing is gaming a 3600 with a 3090 would be ideal...CPU's has gotten so good now a days its all about the GPU for gaming. Standing still right now zoomed out I have like 70-90% load on GPU and 50-70% on CPU.

If I ever get a new desktop Im done spending money on ram, CPU etc. I want the best GPU possible...Unless I thought Id need the CPU or ram for anything else than gaming...Hardware unboxed showed time and time again that ram speed, ddr3 vs ddr4 even...its not that big difference, but a GPU is.

[Nuba]

Mate, you know that app's can just tell you the load? I think I can trust those numbers, even if it might not tell the whole picture. Honestly if all you we're doing is gaming a 3600 with a 3090 would be ideal...CPU's has gotten so good now a days its all about the GPU for gaming. Standing still right now zoomed out I have like 70-90% load on GPU and 50-70% on CPU.

If I ever get a new desktop Im done spending money on ram, CPU etc. I want the best GPU possible...Unless I thought Id need the CPU or ram for anything else than gaming...Hardware unboxed showed time and time again that ram speed, ddr3 vs ddr4 even...its not that big difference, but a GPU is.

That is not the whole picture, "mate".
A bad CPU can run at low usage and still be a bottleneck, I have at my desk a R5 1600 AF, an i5 4590k and a R5 5600x, in WoW even though the 1600AF only hits 30 to 40% usage it still gives me half the FPS I get with the 5600x in some zones and I am not exagerating - despite common belief, wow is a very well optimized game.
the IPC of these processors can not generate as many frames, its not a usage type of deal here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxfwvT7GH4g

Note that the more GPU-bound a game is, the lower the difference, but when a game is well optimized for GPU then the CPU makes a big difference

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just to add one more thing: you are totally right, a R5 3600 wont bottleneck any game with a 3090.... AT 4k
any resolution below that, yeah you will see a bottleneck and you will gain FPS by switching to a 11600k, 10600k or 5600X

The question is not if a bottleneck exists or not though, it is if it bothers you or not

[Kagthul]

That is not the whole picture, "mate".
A bad CPU can run at low usage and still be a bottleneck, I have at my desk a R5 1600 AF, an i5 4590k and a R5 5600x, in WoW even though the 1600AF only hits 30 to 40% usage

... i just cant even about how uneducated about basic computing this is.

its at 40% usage because its not using all your cores you dingbat.

How do you not understand that?

it still gives me half the FPS I get with the 5600x in some zones and I am not exagerating -

Yeah, it cant POSSIBLY be because the 5600X has almost 30% better IPC and runs between 900mhz and 1.2ghz faster than the 1600AF.

Yep, nothing to do with it.

despite common belief, wow is a very well optimized game.

No, it isn't. Or rather, it is as well optimized as it can be, which just isn't very optimized, because as long as it remains a secure client-server game it will ALWAYS be tied to single-core, single-thread performance.

the IPC of these processors can not generate as many frames, its not a usage type of deal here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxfwvT7GH4g

Note that the more GPU-bound a game is, the lower the difference, but when a game is well optimized for GPU then the CPU makes a big difference

That isnt really what that video is showing since its rolling 1080p and an RTX 2080. None of those game is GPU bound by a 2080 at 1080p.

just to add one more thing: you are totally right, a R5 3600 wont bottleneck any game with a 3090.... AT 4k
any resolution below that, yeah you will see a bottleneck and you will gain FPS by switching to a 11600k, 10600k or 5600X

The question is not if a bottleneck exists or not though, it is if it bothers you or not

Or is meaningful in any way.

Unless you're playing with a high refresh monitor, its all irrelevant since you arent seeing more than 60fps anyway.

Its almost like tons of Tech Tubers have done videos on "bottlenecking" - includin GN - and shown that you have to go FAR down the list to get to a meaningful bottleneck because if you're running high resolutions (1440p or higher) apart from a few types of games that are always CPU bound (secure client-server games, games with bajillions of units like Ashes of the Benchmark) the GPU is always going to be the determinor of performance.

Jay had to go back to like an FX-6300 to get it to meaningfully bottleneck a 2080 at 1440p or higher.

[Nuba]

youre on my ignore list for some reason I decided to click "read", and yeah I remember now I ignored you because you only give missinformation and missinterpret basically anything anyone types in these forums, but I'll bite:
- most if not all gamers will run at high refresh rate monitors, youre stupid if you think we dont.
- I never said there werent reasons why the 5600x is faster than the 1600af, there obviously are and my comment implied there are.
- you cited basic shit to try and "counter argument" me but none of what you said negates what I said. You are probably implying a lot but I guess that is the reason why youre ignored

like your comments are all stupid and angry, you get so many warnings here I dont get why and how you are not banned yet, your inability to understand basic comments is simply too powerful