N'Zoth is being underestimated

[Pawpurr]

No old god is dead, they just return to the void.

But, Wrathion has a piece of N'Zoth in crystal in the heart chamber. Then there's the Xala'tath (Blade) angle. .. Then there's the Xala'tath (Person) angle.

Given's Blizz penchant for cashing in on nostalgia, I expect that one day we will see "the void expansion" where each of the old gods we know comes back in some fashion. If it goes that way, I'm hoping they get a patch/tier each, and not just 3 side bosses in some new big bad's dungeon.

[TheFirstOnes]

Says who? We'd have to know what he was even intending to do with it to judge that.

Was probably going to be used to aid N'Zoth's will, instead of what Azshara intended (AKA her using it to kill N'Zoth)?

Not like it matters anyway, since the blade broke in Ny'alotha VIA Wrathion using it on N'Zoth's body. Hell, once that occurs, N'Zoth gets pissed, Wrathion taunts him some more, and N'Zoth fucking screams like a little bitch.

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I just find it hard to believe how some of y'all think we didn't beat N'Zoth. Multiple Interviews, as well as the lore itself, has confirmed that Old Gods are literal chumps, and that the Void Lords are the true lads of Shadow.

[Delano]

We're literally on Kael'thas coming back for the fourth time, so yeah, don't think that Old God is dead... haven't finished beating that dead horse yet.

[Queen of Hamsters]

"cUt CoNtEnT MaDe hIm BaD!"

No, realizing a foe that should be in the shadows and mysterious into something you smack for loot made him a disappointing villain.
Same as how they had to turn yet another humanoid foe into a Dudebro with the Jailer.

May he stay dead and may they, if they ever bring Old Gods back, let the damned Old God use shadowplay and deception, cloak and dagger and not become a boss we fight directly.

[TheFirstOnes]

We're literally on Kael'thas coming back for the fourth time, so yeah, don't think that Old God is dead... haven't finished beating that dead horse yet.

Kael'thas never really...died prior to 2.4 though. His body collapsed at Tempest Keep, and Kil'Jaeden basically put it back together in 2.4 until he killed him, once and for all. And Kael'thas is dead in SL.

The Old Gods are another story. We killed them, but they're not really...gone, ya know?

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Let's be real tho, even if y'all are wrong, 8.3 at least gave us some amazing music.

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Fury of N'Zoth D, E, and F are a vibe.

[Accendor]

Na man, face it. They just needed a monster-of-the-patch and he fit the bill. They just ignored his lore and threw him under bus.

[TheFirstOnes]

Na man, face it. They just needed a monster-of-the-patch and he fit the bill. They just ignored his lore and threw him under bus.

I mean, this is Blizzard we're talking about here. They fucked up Lovecraftian lore, handled the entire Burning Legion plot in a single expansion, threw 3 expansions into 1...

And now we have like...at most, 3 remaining threats to deal with. The Light (Yrel, Lothraxion, the Scarlet Crusade, possibly Elune, and Turalyon), the Void (Infinite Dragonflight, Void Lords, Wrathion and the Dragon Isles, more Old Gods, Azshara, Sargeras, the potential Plane of Order, Azeroth, etc), and forces of Death (The Shadowlands, the Plane of Life, etc). Granted, we don't know if the First Ones are gonna be foes in the future. Hell, we don't even know if Light and Shadow are gonna be 1 expansion...

Hell, for all we know, Blizzard's gonna fucking condense the Light and Void plot into 1 expansion aswell. I mean, fuck it, am I right? -.- I give up with them, at this point.

I wouldn't really expect anything rather clever of them tbh. The Enemy Infiltration thing only worked cause...well...of course the Dreadlords would do that. But that's about it. The Light and Shadow are just going to be thrown away like garbage, the players and a select few of famous lore character's will beat up the Void Lords, and yady yady yada...

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Remember what N'Zoth taught us: "Everything you see exists together in a delicate balance. As king, you need to understand that balance and respect all the creatures, from the crawling ant to the leaping antelope."


N'Zoth still lives.


He lives on inside of you, inside of me.


He lives on inside of all of us.

[shoc]

Old God is dead is paradoxical because they are never truly alive in the first place. “They do not die; they do not live. They are outside the cycle.”

[huth]

Was probably going to be used to aid N'Zoth's will, instead of what Azshara intended (AKA her using it to kill N'Zoth)?

Not like it matters anyway, since the blade broke in Ny'alotha VIA Wrathion using it on N'Zoth's body. Hell, once that occurs, N'Zoth gets pissed, Wrathion taunts him some more, and N'Zoth fucking screams like a little bitch.

That's just you making assumptions, though. Not something actually stated anywhere.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Yeah, right. I doubt he even has those.

Don't forget that he then let's Azshara keep the dagger for absolutely no reason as well, despite being fully aware that she meant to betray him at his most vulnerable.

Yeah, forgot to mention that. Old Gods do have sincere servants though. The aqir and the like, and the assorted cultists are very much devoted to their God.

[TheFirstOnes]

That's just you making assumptions, though. Not something actually stated anywhere.

I mean, yeah? Pretty neat assumption to assume that N'Zoth would probably want to use the blade for his own merits...

Not like he's trying to win or anything.

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"Don't forget that he then let's Azshara keep the dagger for absolutely no reason as well" I...never really got that tbh. Did he think "Maybe I can put myself inside that dagger like Xal'atath" or some shit like that? If that's the case, then where tf is the dagger post Ny'alotha, and if it is destroyed, then wtf was the point of even trying to keep the blade in the enemy's hands?

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I'd believe the whole "N'Zoth played us in a vision thing" IF the Wrathion Legendary cloak thing didn't exist. Cause, there's a reason we have that cloak...and there's a reason we went through those visions.

It was to literally train our minds against N'Zoth's madness, visions, etc. So, in a way, we were immune to N'Zoth's tricks by the time we invaded Ny'alotha, cause we trained both ourselves, as well as upgraded our cloak, to stand against this shit.

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(Doesn't help that there's a quest, as well as an achievement that literally says "The Corrupter's End" on em)

[loras]

No i didn't forget i just think there's not much there to expand until if and when Blizz decides to continue it. There's a massive fan following of the Old gods and extra lore or w/e but in general they aren't as impressive as many want them to be. He's dead, the dagger doesn't change his status. If he comes back he comes back, not sure what Nigh Unkillable means. I can apply that to illidan or Kael or so many others that should have died multiple times but keep coming back.

Nigh unkillable means that unlike Kael or Illidan there is no need for an asspull to resurrect them / show them to have survived things that the audience thought would have killed them. It's usually signalled in foreshadowing, varying from the blatantly obvious like with N'zoth and C'thun, to the slightly more subtle like with Yogg-Saron.

And mind you that i do not dispute that we "killed" them, i just point out it's obvious that they will be back. No idea when that is of course, perhaps WoW itself will die before the moment arrives, but in any credible continuation of WoW's story they'll be back.

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For that matter, he effectively handed us the dagger, and ensured it was even around in the first place. If anything, it would make less sense if he hadn't planned for his defeat.

Yeah, i'm still surprised that people can't or won't see what is handed to them on a silver plate.

[Varodoc]

I think it's so obvious that N'Zoth intended to be stabbed by the Blade of the Black Empire.

Let's review the facts.

N'Zoth and Xal'atath (the entity inside the Blade) had a bargain. N'Zoth would free Xal'atath from the Blade in exchange for the Blade itself.

So clearly N'Zoth wanted the Blade, EMPTY, for some mysterious reason.

Fast-forward to the end of 8.2, and N'Zoth decides to take Azshara captive to Ny'alotha, where he has her tortured by his minions. However, he decides NOT to strip her of her possessions, as you would do with any prisoner, and let her keep the Blade instead.

Azshara then gives the Blade, still emptied, to Wrathion, which he then uses to stab N'Zoth himself.

Then here's another fact: Azshara had a bargain with Sylvanas (who serves the Jailer, whom N'Zoth knew about) against N'Zoth. Azshara wanted to free N'Zoth so that she could kill him herself. N'Zoth was aware of this betrayal, it did not elude him, as demonstrated by when he reveals this bargain to the unsuspecting players.

So let's review everything:

N'Zoth wanted to keep the emptied Blade for some reason, knew that Azshara and Sylvanas wanted to betray him and the Blade was the crux for their plan, yet still let Azshara keep the Blade even after imprisoning her in his domain.

So that when he touches the Blade of the Black Empire, as he did against Wrathion, he can send a fraction of himself inside the Blade and be reborn. Thus making sure he has a contingency plan in case he was defeated in Ny'alotha.

The timing was not coincidental either. N'Zoth waited for the precise moment when he knew the Jailer and Sylvanas would set their plans in motion, thus luring the heroes away from Azeroth, and giving N'Zoth free reign to do whatever he wants to the defenceless world (aside from the aforementioned Ren'dorei and Wrathion). The timing wouldn't be suspect if N'Zoth didn't know about Sylvanas and the Jailer. But he did. And he clearly factored them into his plans.

And once again, even defeat benefit the Corruptor God.

This was clearly all planned and set-up by N'Zoth. Just look at him, he is a literal 5head, and this shouldn't surprise anyone. N'Zoth has always been one step ahead of his opponents. Only a few select mortals can truly defy the whispers and manipulations of the Old Gods.

[huth]

I mean, yeah? Pretty neat assumption to assume that N'Zoth would probably want to use the blade for his own merits...

You're assuming that he failed. Without even knowing what his plan was in the first place. That he went all "raaargh" after getting stabbed isn't conclusive since he'd have to pretend anyway if he wanted to fool us.

And one thing should be kept in mind: Succeeding at corrupting Azeroth isn't all that positive an outcome for him. It'd likely lead straight to cessation of existence since the Void Lords would have no more use for him.

I'd believe the whole "N'Zoth played us in a vision thing" IF the Wrathion Legendary cloak thing didn't exist. Cause, there's a reason we have that cloak...and there's a reason we went through those visions.

Yes, there's a reason... specificially, to prevent the visions from driving us mad. It does not at all prevent us from encountering the visions, as shown by the very first encounter in Ny'alotha.

[Engal]

Yes, it's all interconnected.

Via Xavius, N'Zoth corrupted the Arbiter with Void/Nightmare energy, thus indirectly starting the events of Shadowlands. This benefits the master manipulator in two ways: 1) The heroes are lured away from Azeroth 2) The heroes destroy the Jailer and his forces while fighting to protect the Shadowlands, thus removing the Jailer, whom N'Zoth knew about and acknowledged as his greatest enemy.

Then N'Zoth swoops in for the kill against the defenceless Azeroth, while the heroes are too battered and weakened from their fight with the Jailer to reclaim Azeroth.

N'Zoth was watching the events of the Emerald Nightmare raid unfold all along, via the remnant of the Void found in the Dream. It was all part of his plan.

I really, really don't think its Xavius.

The breaking of the Arbiter was a Jailer plan, not an old god one.

The Jailer needed souls to fuel its army and began his move once he's on the verge of being freed.

So the breaking of the Arbiter needed to be a switch he had in store , and he could remotely activate with his agents

Which means this should have been a plan that he was certain would suceed, relying on a mob of nobody infiltrating the nightmare and managing to kill Xavius seems random at best, and far from certain. I wouldn't trust a pivotal part of my plan on something this uncertain.

Manipulating Argus Energy, who was surrounded by the Legion infiltrated with his Nathrezim buddy, though, could be ....

Moreover, if something in the SL is old god related, it's Thros and the Drust.

Emerald Nightmare => Thros => Shadowlands, the connexion should be here, even the mask, Gorak' Tul's face smelled Old Gods, they looked awfully like Azshara's face

[lozza]

Ide love to see a full on Old Gods / Void expansion in the future.

We may have canonically killed the old gods but maybe they are just sent back to the void, waiting for the opportune moment to invade.

I heard a pretty cool theory somewhere that as soon as we entered Ny'alotha, N'Zoth invaded our minds and from that moment on projected exactly what he wanted us to see, up to and including his demise (kind of makes sense when you think about it as our first encounter with Wrathion is proven to just be a vision). Then when we went on our merry way he just stopped his invasion to keep up the illusion that he was defeated

[tommyhil622]

If i'm not mistaken Xavius is still tied to the twisting nether, having a demon soul, he would not go to the shadowlands, but the twisting nether.

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Nigh unkillable means that unlike Kael or Illidan there is no need for an asspull to resurrect them / show them to have survived things that the audience thought would have killed them. It's usually signalled in foreshadowing, varying from the blatantly obvious like with N'zoth and C'thun, to the slightly more subtle like with Yogg-Saron.

And mind you that i do not dispute that we "killed" them, i just point out it's obvious that they will be back. No idea when that is of course, perhaps WoW itself will die before the moment arrives, but in any credible continuation of WoW's story they'll be back.

I think we're on the same page in the end.

[Quaade]

Reading this the only thing I could think was "this is exactly like the followers of Q who make up things to keep their subjective reality stay intact."

[qwerty123456]

Old gods are just disposable parasites meant to corrupt a titan. Just because people want them to have Lovecraft levels of power and mystery doesn't mean they do.