"1.12.1 made everything easy"

[GongBaoChicken]

You know this is a lie.
You know damn well those bosses would have been tanked and spanked into oblivion within hours of being released by the more devoted groups/guilds.
You know damn well the saying "it was hard because we didn't know what we were doing" is at least partially true.

Not sure why so many toxic, elitist myths persisted within the Classic community.

[ZazuuPriest]

it wasnt the classic community it was the retail kids stroking each other off using shitty outdated information and bro-knowledge. It got us gems like: Druids cant tank

[Fisher557]

I mean it really did make it easier lol. I get that early raids are easy no matter how you cut it, but that doesn’t mean 1.12 didn’t make it easier.

[The Oblivion]

I mean it really did make it easier lol. I get that early raids are easy no matter how you cut it, but that doesn’t mean 1.12 didn’t make it easier.

yeah it factually made it easier.

but the thing is, its like stepping on 1 ant vs stepping on 3 ants, you hardly notice the difference lol

[Echocho]

You know this is a lie.
You know damn well those bosses would have been tanked and spanked into oblivion within hours of being released by the more devoted groups/guilds.
You know damn well the saying "it was hard because we didn't know what we were doing" is at least partially true.

Not sure why so many toxic, elitist myths persisted within the Classic community.

Classic is ridiculously easy. Naxxramas definitely proved that, delusional people could no longer blame the patch version.

[Kathandira]

You know this is a lie.
You know damn well those bosses would have been tanked and spanked into oblivion within hours of being released by the more devoted groups/guilds.
You know damn well the saying "it was hard because we didn't know what we were doing" is at least partially true.

Not sure why so many toxic, elitist myths persisted within the Classic community.

It's a combination of a few things. We are more experienced players. These basic encounters that at one time felt complicated, are now elementary. And as well, the later patch made earlier content a bit easier. And as icing on the cake, the access to resources is way better today than it was 15 years ago. Rather than 1 site that ruled them all, there are various sites that provide all of the Gear, Rotation, Consumable, and Strategy information you could ever need to be 100% prepared for the encounters.

[anon5123]

1.12 made things easier, but is not the largest contribution to easiness.

15 years of experience, raid comps, raid strats, consumes, buffs, specs, PCs that can get 60fps, stable low-latency connections...THESE are what make vanilla "easy" in modern times. And yet still, despite people crying how "easy" the game is, the majority of guilds are stuck at 11 or 12 out of 15 in naxx, lul

Even if we got 100% accurate "patch 1.1" vanilla, Rag would still die in less than 2 weeks after launch, and people would be speedrunning 45-minute MC runs.

[Velerios]

People don't can understand that classic-raids were easier than LFR and hard back then because we were worse than LFR-Raiders nowadays, it's as simple as that.

Also we can't have an vanilla-experience, because PC and the Internet is nowadays simply too fast. Back then people raided with a 56k modem. Later i got 2-4 mbit and that was lightning fast, and my ping was around 200 back then. My landline sadly even nowadays can only bring up to 13 mbit, but with LTE nowadays i can play and have a decent ping in a decent range.

5G (yes, the thing that Bill gates and the reptiloid shadow government from the hollow flat earth will use with the covid vaccine and their integrated 5g chips to enslave all of us ) will make things even faster, and make games play even more smoothly. The shitty pcs and internet-connection we had back then: that's something you can't recreate nowadays with the fast pcs we have nowadays.

Except if you use AT&T

So nope, classic was never really hard, we were simply bad back then!

[anon5123]

People don't can understand that classic-raids were easier than LFR

"Easier"...if you don't account for the fact that in vanilla, fucking up a raid mechanic can domino into a wipe very quickly.

In LFR you can completely ignore mechanics and just tunnel the boss and still win through raw DPS/HPS.

[Echocho]

1.12 made things easier, but is not the largest contribution to easiness.

15 years of experience, raid comps, raid strats, consumes, buffs, specs, PCs that can get 60fps, stable low-latency connections...THESE are what make vanilla "easy" in modern times. And yet still, despite people crying how "easy" the game is, the majority of guilds are stuck at 11 or 12 out of 15 in naxx, lul

Even if we got 100% accurate "patch 1.1" vanilla, Rag would still die in less than 2 weeks after launch, and people would be speedrunning 45-minute MC runs.

You forgot lack of boss mechanics and brain dead rotations. Those are the biggest factors imo

[Ryzeth]

"Easier"...if you don't account for the fact that in vanilla, fucking up a raid mechanic can domino into a wipe very quickly.

In LFR you can completely ignore mechanics and just tunnel the boss and still win through raw DPS/HPS.

LFR wiped on Gul'dan, N'zoth, Garrosh, Elisande (among a number of others) very, very frequently.

[Kralljin]

People can deny it all they want, but it had a reasonable impact.

Classic is less mechanical based but numerical, thus anything that boosts playerpower massively impacts the difficulty.
1.12 Itemization & 1.12 talents really boosted playerpower.

And no, speedrunning guilds also aren't the benchmark, those cleared Naxx under 2h, whereas the vast majority didn't even manage to clear it within the first week.

Especially the itemization gets completely underestimated, people say Classic itemization was bad, but *early* Vanilla Itemization is on another level.
https://classicdb.ch/?item=16844-0

https://classicdb.ch/?item=17103-0

https://classicdb.ch/?item=13178-0

Compare them to the 1.12 Itemization

[Fisher557]

yeah it factually made it easier.

but the thing is, its like stepping on 1 ant vs stepping on 3 ants, you hardly notice the difference lol

I’m not disagreeing, early classic raids are easy as hell no matter how you cut it. That’s doesn’t negate the argument against releasing it with 1.12 because if it’s already easy you might not want it be to even easier.

[Kehego]

it wasnt the classic community it was the retail kids stroking each other off using shitty outdated information and bro-knowledge. It got us gems like: Druids cant tank

can they, though? They don't exist in the meta. After people finished farming HoJ, what use did they have?

[Daymanmb]

LFR wiped on Gul'dan, N'zoth, Garrosh, Elisande (among a number of others) very, very frequently.

And people still wipe in naxx. We dont use either as a benchmark for difficulty, do we?

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can they, though? They don't exist in the meta. After people finished farming HoJ, what use did they have?

Druid tanks are sick. Idk what youre talking about...

[hulkgor]

Would it still be easy before 1.12? Yes.
Did 1.12 made everything easier, regardless? Yes.

What's the point of this thread really?

[durenas]

yeah it factually made it easier.

but the thing is, its like stepping on 1 ant vs stepping on 3 ants, you hardly notice the difference lol

I wish we had started with 1.01 or whatever was the launch patch. So people can see what shit we had to work with.

[BananaHandsB]

Would it still be easy before 1.12? Yes.
Did 1.12 made everything easier, regardless? Yes.

What's the point of this thread really?

Well I think the point he's making by the title of the thread is that 1.12 didn't MAKE everything easy, as some ppl tried to push. It already was easy. Sure it made it, even easier, yes. But his point was it was already easy to begin with, despite what many people said. The fact that it made it even easier is the irrelevant part.

[Kehego]

And people still wipe in naxx. We dont use either as a benchmark for difficulty, do we?

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Druid tanks are sick. Idk what youre talking about...

ok show me one in a speed run comp.
so they are playable yes, viable in the current meta (something i explicitly stated)?

[The Oblivion]

I wish we had started with 1.01 or whatever was the launch patch. So people can see what shit we had to work with.

it really would not have made a difference high end raiding wise.