TOP 3 DPS in BC ?

[stevenho]

Maybe not 9k dps, but 4k dps yes. This discussion began because somebody claimed it was not possible to hold threat on 4300 dps when I posted my log from Shade of Akama doing 4300 dps. I also did over 4k dps on Fathom Lord as Arms in a T5/Hyjal geared raid and the tanks held on (albeit that's cleave so the damage is split but so is the tank threat), and Arms doesn't have the 10% threat reduction of Fury.

You can gear for threat, give tanks good group setup and proper use of MD and hold on to way more threat than was the norm in your average guild in 2008.

I'm not just a 2008 guy, I played TBC a lot.
No you cannot hold threat agains 4k DPS ST (even in Sunwell, have to make use of threat dumps) and I'm not sure why you mention Akama that is tanked by a NPC.
Having said that, there is just one ST threat capped spec in TBC - destro locks - and I'm really curious whether that will go away with TPS meta that will 100% emerge in high end runs.

[Atherions]

People said waiting for 5 sunders and aggro would be a big thing in classic too. But aggro, outside of literally the first two seconds, doesn't matter in classic.

[stevenho]

It's because of the fury/prot tps meta.
It won't be like that in TBC, but how exactly it will turn out no one knows.

[Perrito]

i can talk about my experience during TBC, threat was an issue, specially for melee, tanks will often say, 3 sunders go out loud, no tank will spec for threat, they will barelly get their def cap and then stack something else like stam.

even i could pull from some tanks after MDing, remember that MD in TBC was the 1st 3 shots, this mean that 1 was an autoshot and probably an aimshot, that wasnt a lot of threat.

melee also will get increased threat so i dont see any warrior doing 6k dps outside of gimmicks and GCD hack that will probably be imposible to pull off now.

[Bigbazz]

i can talk about my experience during TBC, threat was an issue, specially for melee, tanks will often say, 3 sunders go out loud, no tank will spec for threat, they will barelly get their def cap and then stack something else like stam.

even i could pull from some tanks after MDing, remember that MD in TBC was the 1st 3 shots, this mean that 1 was an autoshot and probably an aimshot, that wasnt a lot of threat.

melee also will get increased threat so i dont see any warrior doing 6k dps outside of gimmicks and GCD hack that will probably be imposible to pull off now.

Getting defense cap is easy already in dungeon/quest blues + preraid crafting gear so I have no idea where you get this idea from. And gearing for threat already was a thing in 2008 for Sunwell guilds, with private server players in recent years taking that a step further and using that mentality from T4 onwards. And melee don't get increased threat, they just pull at 110% instead of 130% (ranged), but melee specs have threat reduction built into them. Enhance, Fury and Ret have passive threat reduction via talents, Rogues effectively have no threat cap due to feint + vanish.

The stack effective health at all costs strategy of 2007 is long, long behind us and is completely unnecessary when you have skilled players tanking/healing. Now people focus on maximising raid dps and that means tanks that gear around threat. And sure you won't do 6k dps single target unless it's Hyjal with Unholy Frenzy, Akama in BT, maybe Curator in Kara. But 6k on cleave is possible, speed kills on Illihoof or Fathom Lord for example.

[Perrito]

like i said, i can talk for my experience, threat was an issue back then, tanks didnt gear for hit gear, they would def try to hit their cap and then stack either armor or stamina as far as i remember.

nobody cares on bosses where you can pad and inflate numbers, single target aka brutallus a warrior wont be pulling 5k dps. heck, you had to had a perfect group comp with drums rotations in brut to even hit 4k, while this guys is comming here saying that he can effectivly put out 6k dps.

warriors thing was GCD hack but thats taking care of, i dont think they would allow the same things as they did back then, i doubt a warrior could pull 5k dps outside of a gimmik fight.

[Gratlim]

]

I remember having huge threat issues as a warlock in TBC (i was often top 3 dps along with 2 crazy hunters) as fire destro. Threat really was the limiting factor for us. We could pump more.
I wonder if the Fury DW taking will be a thing in BC. It shouldn't as Bosses hit much much harder than in Classic, but you never know.

Plus i can already see all those greedy protwar GMs wanting to prio dual glaives because "DW tanking baby!" :'). And crying rogues on the sideline.

[evermynd]

Fury warrior is a top 3 dps. People are sleeping on how powerful it is right now. It's even a number 1 cleave dps in all of tbc. When people start competing for clear times on entire raids warriors are gonna be sought after for their superior trash clearing ability mixed with their competitive single target dps.

also in terms of threat, bear tanks are the new fury prot. Bears don't have the same issues that warriors do. The top end meta is looking to be double bear tank atm.

[Bigbazz]

like i said, i can talk for my experience, threat was an issue back then, tanks didnt gear for hit gear, they would def try to hit their cap and then stack either armor or stamina as far as i remember.

nobody cares on bosses where you can pad and inflate numbers, single target aka brutallus a warrior wont be pulling 5k dps. heck, you had to had a perfect group comp with drums rotations in brut to even hit 4k, while this guys is comming here saying that he can effectivly put out 6k dps.

warriors thing was GCD hack but thats taking care of, i dont think they would allow the same things as they did back then, i doubt a warrior could pull 5k dps outside of a gimmik fight.

Nobody is remotely even hinting at the idea that you can do anywhere near 6k single target on brutallus or similar, you've pulled that out of your imagination because you're probably skim-reading, missing half the posts in multi-post discussions, missing all context and jumping to conclusions. And also, you're using your memory of 13 years ago against people who have been studying and playing TBC in recent years/months.

There was no GCD hack involved in the 6k dps, it's just the result of cc'ing necromancers in hyjal and keeping them for the boss where you mind control them to apply unholy frenzy buff to the target player, in the case of the video a Fury Warrior. Since it's a Fury Warrior he has 15 seconds of 100% crit stacked with bloodlust and unholy frenzy for extremely fast attack speed giving him infinite rage which he's putting into heroic strike spam (which hits on every single main hand hit). Bloodthirst/Whirlwind/Execute damage is almost insignificant by comparison to the Heroic Strike damage, there is no "GCD hack", his GCD is 1.5s but Heroic Strike isn't on the GCD.

]

I remember having huge threat issues as a warlock in TBC (i was often top 3 dps along with 2 crazy hunters) as fire destro. Threat really was the limiting factor for us. We could pump more.
I wonder if the Fury DW taking will be a thing in BC. It shouldn't as Bosses hit much much harder than in Classic, but you never know.

Plus i can already see all those greedy protwar GMs wanting to prio dual glaives because "DW tanking baby!" :'). And crying rogues on the sideline.

DW tanking makes no sense in TBC because bosses hit hard (unlike in Vanilla), shield block is pretty much required (well it's 100% required for some bosses) and Prot Warriors do massive threat with shield slam + the deep Prot talents allow you to generate threat with less rage. Meanwhile Fury is like a disabled class trying to tank without those rage cost reductions, it's effectively useless.

So nope, Warrior tanks will be Sword + Board.

[Gaidax]

From my experience back in the day, later patches:

1. Glaives Rogue
2. Warlock Shadowbolt spam

Now, that was then, but if you want to be smart - would go to see what happens in the private server logs. What we had back then when we barely knew wtf is going on, compared to what will be now with a decade of private server knowhow - it will be whole other game.

They guy saying warriors is not wrong, but they were massively crippled by threat cap back in TBC - if private server tanks found ways to up that cap, I expect Warriors to rock hard. Warlocks would benefit a ton too, I vividly remember often being limited by threat, as you pretty much had no passive threat reduction as shadowbolt lock aside from blessing and Soulshatter was a pretty meh solution compared to other tools there were.

[stevenho]

DW tanking makes no sense in TBC because bosses hit hard (unlike in Vanilla), shield block is pretty much required (well it's 100% required for some bosses)

It's gonna be interesting how classic turns out. Buffed priv Illidan for example does not require shield block contrary to what you can read from "back in the day people"

[Bigbazz]

It's gonna be interesting how classic turns out. Buffed priv Illidan for example does not require shield block contrary to what you can read from "back in the day people"

Not sure what this is meant to be showing, Paladins have block, I was talking about Warriors. Show me a druid tanking it and then you have my attention, my guild Pala tanked Illidan regularly back in the day.

[stevenho]

"Illidan for example does not require shield block contrary to what you can read from "back in the day people"

This^
Warriors are not needed to tank all bosses, which is something that pops up here pretty often.

[Bigbazz]

"Illidan for example does not require shield block contrary to what you can read from "back in the day people"

This^
Warriors are not needed to tank all bosses, which is something that pops up here pretty often.

I was replying to a post specifically asking about Warriors dualweilding so your reply is out of context.

[Millyraynge]

Maybe not 9k dps, but 4k dps yes. This discussion began because somebody claimed it was not possible to hold threat on 4300 dps when I posted my log from Shade of Akama doing 4300 dps. I also did over 4k dps on Fathom Lord as Arms in a T5/Hyjal geared raid and the tanks held on (albeit that's cleave so the damage is split but so is the tank threat), and Arms doesn't have the 10% threat reduction of Fury.

You can gear for threat, give tanks good group setup and proper use of MD and hold on to way more threat than was the norm in your average guild in 2008.

problem is that TBCC will start with 2.4.3. At this point pretty much any beneficial melee mechanic got nerfed. Stuff like making extra hit procs white damage instead of yellow, windfury totem nerf, dst nerf etc.

[ifrah]

Maybe someone had done the math back then and today, but the "gem all stamina" meta in TBC (was reigning in LK too) sort of puzzled me. The amount of health that all those gems pumped out wasn't even close of getting the player to survive 1 extra hit from some stronger bosses whereas you had locks for instance being threatcapped quite frequently. I would not see this being the thing any more as soon as people get at least somewhat civilized gear to not get 1shot.

[Nite92]

Maybe someone had done the math back then and today, but the "gem all stamina" meta in TBC (was reigning in LK too) sort of puzzled me. The amount of health that all those gems pumped out wasn't even close of getting the player to survive 1 extra hit from some stronger bosses whereas you had locks for instance being threatcapped quite frequently. I would not see this being the thing any more as soon as people get at least somewhat civilized gear to not get 1shot.

It is not binary like that lol.

Stamina is gemmed to give healers more flexibility. Sure you could gem DR/Dodge/Threat, but gemming stamina does something other def stats cannot.
Dodge and DR reduces overall damage, but stamina decreases the amount you need to healed inbetween swings.
If you have 15k hp on a 10k hitting boss, healers need to heal 5k between each boss swings, but a 18k hp tank only needs 2k, and the healer knows, the tank will live the next hit, even if the 15k hp tank has 10% more dodge/parry.

[Chrno]

This is a fury warrior doing 6k dps in a fight in Hyjal at level 70. He peaks at OVER 9000 DPS. He can do that because of a buff a MCed mob has which increase the haste by 100%. Enjoy !!

so yeah, why we dont give that haste to a hunter and see what he can do? you are claiming here that you could def hit 6k dps in any boss and so far all you show here is gimick bosses that favor physical damage.

a warrior with a perfect group made for him can do a lot of dmg, meanwhile a hunter without other than just a ret paladin or even in the caster group with the SP to never go viper will do more damage from range.

warriors were tanks, thats about it, because of content and because of sunders. is like saying Survival hunter will be a must with improve HM and agi gear......

I raided as fury warrior back in the day doing like 2000dps single target

[CatakidWoW]

Hunter, Warlock, Mage

[ifrah]

It is not binary like that lol.

Stamina is gemmed to give healers more flexibility. Sure you could gem DR/Dodge/Threat, but gemming stamina does something other def stats cannot.
Dodge and DR reduces overall damage, but stamina decreases the amount you need to healed inbetween swings.
If you have 15k hp on a 10k hitting boss, healers need to heal 5k between each boss swings, but a 18k hp tank only needs 2k, and the healer knows, the tank will live the next hit, even if the 15k hp tank has 10% more dodge/parry.

Yep, slow brains are slow. Stand corrected.