The First Ones are not objects of a paradigm, though. In fact, it's implied they literally made the Warcraft paradigm to begin with. So, no, it's not hard to assume they exist outside of the Paradigm, especially since they don't fit anywhere in it to begin with. Nothing implies they are objects at all either, since nothing seems to assume they're physical, or anything akin to that. Besides, concepts can in fact be made, and beings that embody concepts aren't the top of the food chain. Read a Marvel or DC comic, or the Bible. There are legit powers that exist which surpass concepts and reach the realms of platonic nature, or have even made said platonism to begin with. You can actually argue this for the First Ones.
"The very concept of all things possible encompasses literally all things possible." And those concepts are the cosmic powers, which represent the concepts of all things that are and will be within the Warcraft verse. If anything, you're downplaying the First Ones as if they're apart of the Cosmic Chart, and not straight up above it, which while possible, is probably not the case.
"The Void Lords came about by clashing with the Light? Being pure void? Huh?" The Void Lords are NOT the Void itself. They are embodiments of the Void made by shards of its power.
"Creator gods don't exist in a space of opposing forces. They classically exist in realms of nothingness." The Void Lords live in realms of nothingness, and yes they can. It's why the Titans are able to shape entire planetary systems, and create worlds, etc despite being bound to the chart of opposing forces.
- - - Updated - - -
We already know that the First Ones scale above the other Cosmic Pantheons. The Void Lords are the Cosmic Pantheon of Shadow. Stop these baseless theories. They serve nothing but fuel your headcanon.
- - - Updated - - -
Well, it has. What you say doesn't go against my point, that the Titans are a fallible, unreliable narrator.
Hence my very obvious sarcasm of the whole "TITANS POV IS BS" Like people never heard of the concept of sometimes people have false information despite being honest.Well, it has. What you say doesn't go against my point, that the Titans are a fallible, unreliable narrator.
#TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde
Warrior-Magi
I mean, the door still would've been expanded either way, but sure.
Like I said multiple times now, the Chronicle did nothing but give us the base of the Warcraft Cosmos. That's it. SL's, the Grimoire, and future develops merely serve to expand upon what's already been established. We knew absolutely nothing of the Warcraft Cosmos outside of the Titans, Sargeras (The Dark TITAN), and the Old Gods (Which aren't even Cosmic beings all too much anymore, more like parasites of Cosmic beings such as the Void Lords, which are more comparable to Titans, and the other Cosmic Pantheons).
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
If they introduced them back in like WOTLK, you'd be saying it's an ass pull that hasn't been established back then too. How do you establish and introduce something, without you know... introducing and establishing it first? They're doing it now and it's completely fine.
The writing has certainly taken a... dive. How far it's fallen is up for personal interpretation but I agree that it has.
Bad writing is almost always a love letter addressed by the self to the self. The person who will admire it first and last the most is the writer themselves. Writing is more than a matter of shit syntax and faulty observation; bad writing usually arises from a stubborn refusal to tell stories about what people actually do and what is believable.
look at the titan ruins all around classic, they don't just say oh ya Titans made the planet they show you things that connect to them but leave it a mystery that gets fleshed out when you go to uldaman and then again further with ulduar and so on.
wow already has examples of how to be build up right and it just show cases how horribly this is being done.
I vote for:
The Zeros (as a pun on the first ONE, zero coming before one)
Then the Zeros were created by the Mathematics (who also wrote all the laws of the universe)
And the Mathematics were created by either Einstonians or a big bang type event (but who caused the big bang type event? :O )
But yeh, the lore has been going downhill since TBC with Illidan's story there.
WoW characters that need/deserve to get killed/punished/otherwise removed from the story: Tirion(dead now), Thrall, Malfurion, Sylvanas(soon?), Jaina, Tyrande
Yeah thats called build up, the First Ones are being added for world building the same way as you pointed out Titans got more attention then just manuals from old games and over time we learned more. Nothing different is being done here. The Scourge came out of nowhere in WCIII but thats why they were introduced and built up.
No matter how many times its said, no thats not true. People just have blinders on.
But yeh, the lore has been going downhill since TBC with Illidan's story there.
Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2021-02-24 at 11:25 PM.
#TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde
Warrior-Magi
People tend to ignore all the little spots of build up blizzard places all over. Even the big build ups.
I have notice first one/orbios style small ruins all over the shadow land zones and in the maw.
Now they are adding a new piece of land more directly related to the first ones.
Titans were introduced together with WoW, with dungeons like Uldaman and several quests around the world. The lore was expanded later, with all the Titan-themed stuff in WotLK. There was, y'know, a large, consistent buildup for them.
But now they've introduced something which predates even the previously called primordial forces of the Warcraft mythos without any buildup whatsoever, aka asspull. Did someone ever bother showing or mentioning something, anything, about these First Ones in previous xpacs? No? In the RTSs? Maybe in !@#$ing Hearthstone? Yeah, that's what I thought.
The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.
From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.
He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.
Shadowlands is the build up of the First Ones.
They created shadowlands and made maldraxxus as its defense force.
Just cause Blizz did not build them up before shadowlands does not mean it is an ass pull.
You might as well call most of the stuff that came out of MoP an ass pull if you want to think that way