What problems do you have with Final Fantasy 14?

[Wangming]

It's not really odd at all.

They're completely different games run by completely different teams. FFXIV has nothing to do with FFXI and vice versa, they're just owned and operated by the same company, that doesn't mean they're run by the same people.

FFXIV is not FFXI.

THIS. They don't share a single dev member.

[Necromantic]

It's not really odd at all.

They're completely different games run by completely different teams. FFXIV has nothing to do with FFXI and vice versa, they're just owned and operated by the same company, that doesn't mean they're run by the same people.

It's odd to me because they're the same organization. Why would you allow people to do something that violates the rules in 1 of your games, sweeping it under the rug for a decade but enforce it hardcore in another? That shows a lack of standardization, competency, organizational structure or a mixture of the 3.

I don't understand why that doesn't seem odd.

FFXIV is not FFXI.

Well of course it isn't. If they were not owned and operated by the same exact company, nobody would ever question or wonder this. Why was that comment even necessary?

[Katchii]

It's odd to me because they're the same organization. Why would you allow people to do something that violates the rules in 1 of your games, sweeping it under the rug for a decade but enforce it hardcore in another? That shows a lack of standardization, competency, organizational structure or a mixture of the 3.

I don't understand why that doesn't seem odd.

See below.

Well of course it isn't. If they were not owned and operated by the same exact company, nobody would ever question or wonder this. Why was that comment even necessary?

You seem to be confused as to what "they're two completely different games, with different teams" actually means. They even have different EULA and TOS, because AGAIN, they're different games.

[Necromantic]

See below.



You seem to be confused as to what "they're two completely different games, with different teams" actually means. They even have different EULA and TOS, because AGAIN, they're different games.

I'm not confused at all.

They're clearly two different games and of course they have different teams. My point (again and hopefully the last time) is that they're the exact same company with the exact same leadership. They're both Final Fantasy MMOs. It's not like they're Overwatch vs WoW which are completely different IPs.

I think my point went over your head or something.

[akaTheDude]

Slow combat and its too easy.

[Katchii]

I'm not confused at all.

They're clearly two different games and of course they have different teams. My point (again and hopefully the last time) is that they're the exact same company with the exact same leadership. They're both Final Fantasy MMOs. It's not like they're Overwatch vs WoW which are completely different IPs.

I think my point went over your head or something.

You're conflating same company with same team.

You're also confusing IP and Franchise. Just because they're both Final Fantasy games doesn't mean they have anything to do with each other in any way shape or form.

They work off different rules, different EULA, different TOS, different teams, different community managers, etc...

The only thing being in the same company means is that their money is coming from the same place. They don't have the same leadership. If you think the actual head of SE is giving development, community management, or any other specific feedback, and affecting the way each game is specifically run you're delusional.

You ARE confused.

[Necromantic]

You're conflating same company with same team.

You're also confusing IP and Franchise. Just because they're both Final Fantasy games doesn't mean they have anything to do with each other in any way shape or form.

They work off different rules, different EULA, different TOS, different teams, different community managers, etc...

The only thing being in the same company means is that their money is coming from the same place. They don't have the same leadership. If you think the actual head of SE is giving development, community management, or any other specific feedback, and affecting the way each game is specifically run you're delusional.

You ARE confused.

Ugh...

*wooooooosh*

Just drop it, buddy. You're just not getting it.

[Katchii]

Ugh...

*wooooooosh*

Just drop it, buddy. You're just not getting it.

Then you are the one that needs to a better job communicating what you mean. But I'm fine dropping it.

[infinitemeridian]

Some little things I don't like:

1) Tab targetting is..not great
2) Can't swim, at least not in ARR realms
3) Can't hide / move the notifications that appear in the middle of the screen (Achievements, boss text, etc.) - always gets in the way of my hotbars.
4) Can't initiate combat / abilities from mounted
5) Way too many menus - why can't the chocobo inventory be combined with regular? Or the chocobo with character profile?
6) When you're filling out a quest that has you collect things, it always pauses right after you fulfill an objective. Like I had to place 8 things for a beast tribe quest, as soon as you place one, the game freezes for a second while it tells you you're now 4/8.
7) The map ui is unintuitive and hard to navigate.
8) Have to manually change the chat window when you want to talk to party, NN, etc. In wow, you just type /e and it remembers.

[Necromantic]

Why does it seem so strange to you when they're separate games but share an IP, but not when they're separate games with different titles?

Everyone else seems fine with the concept of XI and XIV being entirely different games with different teams, different management, different moderation habits, and so on. It's not something you should be having trouble with.

I'm not having trouble with anything.

I just think it's weird that they will fully allow people to cheat in one of their MMOs but ban you for the exact same thing in another one.

People like to say "SE will ban you" when in that case, it should be "the FFXIV team will ban you".

[Nenavn]

While I enjoy it and still put hours into FFXIV, overcoming the painfully weeb aesthetic and restricted character customization was the biggest hurdle. I still struggle to find it enjoyable when every other player I look at it is a Second Life/Deviantart OC. I don't think Square does enough with the combo system, as some classes feel bloated and clunky (thinking of Dragoon in particular). This isn't helped by how slow the combat is paced with attacks having flashy, choreographed animations but only dealing damage at the very end once the little song and dance is concluded.
These are minor points, however, as I've found the rest of the game to be quite redeemable, especially as a longtime WoW Player.

[Heartlessnobody]

I would like it if the Limit Breaks were made personal instead of group use only. meaning when in a group you get your own LB depending on group size and mob and boss values need to be adjusted.
also when soloing out in the world id like a smaller yet powerful LB that takes awhile to fill

[Necromantic]

The dungeons.....
They have the exact same formula
Each wing is broken into 3 or 4 areas separated by a line where the boss is.
Run into an area, mobs auto pull, gather mobs, aoe down, repeat until boss.
If you op or gud, pull all areas, mass aoe, go boss.
Between each boss is the same formula.

It's the one thing about the game they just don't do well.

I love this formula for dungeons but I do wish some were a little less 100% linear like running in a tunnel. The first dungeons in SB are like walking through a tunnel. ARR had some very cool dungeons that gave (even if a slight illusion) of exploration such as the first 6 dungeons.

[T-34]

Art, story etc. don't have influence on gameplay so that is irrelevant for me personally.
Gameplay is what matters and therefore my problems are as follows:

Big flaws:

Lack of co-operative competitive element
Ability bloat

Major flaw (from my point of view):

That the game to a very big extent is made for and caters to the toxic entitled player-types who are encouraged by the devs to bully and harass players that care about performance.
It creates a game where mediocrity is deemed normal and nurtures a snitch-culture that would make any leader in a totalitarian state proud.

[Katchii]

Lack of co-operative competitive element

Can you elaborate on what you mean here?

Because PvP and high end raiding do exist and are very co-operative. I'm just not sure what you mean specifically by "competitive."

That the game to a very big extent is made for and caters to the toxic entitled player-types who are encouraged by the devs to bully and harass players that care about performance.

Can you provide examples of what you mean here? Because I honestly can't wrap my head around what you're talking about here and I've been playing since before 2.0 (the base game available now) launched.

It creates a game where mediocrity is deemed normal and nurtures a snitch-culture that would make any leader in a totalitarian state proud.

Again, what specifically are you talking about here? This seems like an extreme exaggeration. Granted, I understand that hurting anyone's feelings can cause WAY more drama than it should, but that doesn't mean you can't hold people accountable for things at all. For the most part, just don't be a dick about it and you'll be fine.

[Echo of Soul]

That the game to a very big extent is made for and caters to the toxic entitled player-types who are encouraged by the devs to bully and harass players that care about performance.

Please show me a single instance of a developer encouraging the players to bully and harass anyone. If you bully or harass someone for any reason you run a very high risk of getting banned.

[TheRevenantHero]

Raw real-world time investment is a pretty fucking bizarre way of defining competitiveness. You could make an old school elitist MMO to end all MMOs that requires dozens of hours of material farming for just one night's worth of attempts and that would pad out the effective amount of time spent raiding by an impressive amount, but it wouldn't necessarily make it "more competitive" than another game with fights that are equally challenging. It would simply make it so that the only people that can realistically compete for server first/week one clears are people that either literally play games for a living (streamers etc) or who are so fortunate that they can take a week+ off every time a new raid comes out and no-life the game for 20 hours a day.

I'd argue that while it's fresh and there are no guides, plugins, and other cheating tools available, XIV is at least as challenging as equivalent WoW content. Savages are probably not equivalent to Mythics - they are very much "if you have the patience and willingness to learn, you can do this" content. The hardest content in XIV are ultimates, and those are probably *at least* as challenging as the toughest fights in mythic raids.

Likely even moreso because you don't get to have the game literally fucking play itself for you in XIV, you don't have WeakAuras basically putting your finger on each button as it needs to be pressed, you don't have BigWigs/DBM making it so that you damn near don't even need to be able to see the screen, etc.

I really struggle to take WoW seriously as a "competitive game" when even the biggest and baddest streamers and players are wholly reliant on mods playing the game for them.



Reciprocation would probably break the PG-13/Teen rating they're courting, not to mention that they either have to go full Stardew and everyone wants to bang everyone else (which does limit the ability to write your characters, it basically means you can't ever make their sexuality a facet of their personality because their sexuality in this case is simply "yes"), or different NPCs have different tastes and that will *inevitably* cause an unending tirade of caterwauling and whining when "my favorite waifu isn't into my gender/race/whatever!!!!" I think it would be pretty funny if they made Y'shtola asexual or something just to piss off as many fanboys as possible, though.

Not gonna lie, I'd laugh REAL HARD if they did that to Y'shtola.

- - - Updated - - -

Art, story etc. don't have influence on gameplay so that is irrelevant for me personally.
Gameplay is what matters and therefore my problems are as follows:

Big flaws:

Lack of co-operative competitive element
Ability bloat

Major flaw (from my point of view):

That the game to a very big extent is made for and caters to the toxic entitled player-types who are encouraged by the devs to bully and harass players that care about performance.
It creates a game where mediocrity is deemed normal and nurtures a snitch-culture that would make any leader in a totalitarian state proud.

That's not even remotely accurate wtf? lol. So because elitist number crunchers can't use meters to bully and shame players, that means the game encourages mediocrity? That is the shittiest of shit takes. There is plenty of content that pushes for players to be on top of their game with raids and higher end difficulty trials/duties. Nobody bullies or harasses people who care about performance because the people who are constantly hard up about performance are the actual bullies. Just look at WoW. In FFXIV, you get banned if you shame people because you think they're playing the game wrong. In WoW, it's pretty much encouraged.

The fact that you're comparing it to a totalitarian state purely because you're not allowed to post damage meters and call other players bad as a result is so utterly asinine and overdramatic.

[Wrecktangle]

The fact that you're comparing it to a totalitarian state purely because you're not allowed to post damage meters and call other players bad as a result is so utterly asinine and overdramatic.

It's not about calling players bad, and just to make it abundantly clear, it NEVER has been. We don't WANT to call anyone bad. I promise you we don't. I 100% SUPPORT PUNISHING AND BANNING ANYONE WHO HARASSES OVER DPS PERFORMANCE.

With that said though, what we want is for people to see that they're not pulling their weight and then let them decide if it's worth it to change it or not.

I have dozens of scenarios over the years where I've helped players who didn't have ACT with their DPS because they genuinely had no idea they weren't up to snuff. They genuinely and incorrectly thought they were doing well and we can all agree FF14 doesn't do a great job teaching optimal gameplay.

This goes back to the screenshots I posted last week. There are IME nearly 20-35% of players I get matched with who do less damage than simply mashing their 1 key over and over. That should not be OK. I've never once joined a WoW party where I had a player who literally did SO little damage that they did less damage than me spamming a single key over and over. The reason for that is because they would be excluded or called out.

Even if we pivot to real world, any time you collaborate are you happy to have someone half ass it or phone it in? Work? Sports
? School? Projects? Customer Service? Why encourage it here?

[TheRevenantHero]

It's not about calling players bad, and just to make it abundantly clear, it NEVER has been. We don't WANT to call anyone bad. I promise you we don't. I 100% SUPPORT PUNISHING AND BANNING ANYONE WHO HARASSES OVER DPS PERFORMANCE.

With that said though, what we want is for people to see that they're not pulling their weight and then let them decide if it's worth it to change it or not.

I have dozens of scenarios over the years where I've helped players who didn't have ACT with their DPS because they genuinely had no idea they weren't up to snuff. They genuinely and incorrectly thought they were doing well and we can all agree FF14 doesn't do a great job teaching optimal gameplay.

This goes back to the screenshots I posted last week. There are IME nearly 20-35% of players I get matched with who do less damage than simply mashing their 1 key over and over. That should not be OK. I've never once joined a WoW party where I had a player who literally did SO little damage that they did less damage than me spamming a single key over and over. The reason for that is because they would be excluded or called out.

Even if we pivot to real world, any time you collaborate are you happy to have someone half ass it or phone it in? Work? School? Projects? Customer Service? Why encourage it here?

You're talking to someone who is a WoW diehard. They're used to toxic elitists crucifying anyone who doesn't play 100% optimally. And that's why I love FFXIV. That kind of shit is not only frowned upon but can net you a suspension. As a result, the game pretty much only has helpful players who are willing to give people pointers and be patient with them about getting better. When I first started tanking in FFXIV, pretty much every group I got into would tell me wipes were ok when I told them at the start I was new. They also gave me pointers about what CDs to use when, how best to maintain aggro, and would say things like "No worries, you're learning " if I died and still said it even if it resulted in a wipe. It's been an odd culture shock going from the toxicity of WoW to the wonderful community of FFXIV.

[T-34]

Please show me a single instance of a developer encouraging the players to bully and harass anyone. If you bully or harass someone for any reason you run a very high risk of getting banned.

Players that care about their performance are being persecuted in the game by the developers and they encourage the entitled players to snitch on them.
It can quite obvious be seen by the fact that players that are competitive and care about their performance have to go "underground" in order to play with like-minded people.

- - - Updated - - -

Can you elaborate on what you mean here?

Because PvP and high end raiding do exist and are very co-operative. I'm just not sure what you mean specifically by "competitive."

WoW has, in regards to PVE, an official ladders for M+, you also have a thriving out-of-game ladder-tool in the shape of raider.io that is going to be implemented in-game. In regards for raiding you also have an official ladder.
You also have very well developed performance measuring tools from dps-meters to logs, not "underground freedom tools" like in FFXIV.

All that means that you can compare yourself to your peers on an individual level to a group level. There can be no competition and competitiveness without a robust system for measuring performance.
The developers of WoW supports the use of such tools, both in-game and out of game. The developers of FFXIV do nothing of such sort, they actually persecute and encourage those that wont' do their best to snitch and harass those that want to be the best they can be.