Is the GOP in a Civil War?

[PC2]

Civil war is a bit dramatic. Parties are always changing and shifting around to see what works and what doesn't. The GOP and Democrats basically just turn some knobs every 4-8 years so it doesn't matter that much anyways.

[cubby]

Probably will happen soonish. Like I've said for a long time since I've been here. The GoP lacks leadership. Trump wasnt a leader. He reminded me of dubbya. Had 2 years to pass anything he wanted to (didn't have a super majority in the senate but you get the idea). Yet did next to nothing

Super secret better than obamacare health plan? Nope, immigration reform? Nope, curtailed china, very little. The list goes on and on. The GoP have to start from the ground up with their policy. Tickle down doesn't work. Helping large corporate entities doesn't pass it down to the worker. Ignoring the working class isn't working. Etc, etc you get the idea. Then the GoP gots people like cruz who flee trouble. Cruz who almost got beat by a liberal in freaking texas


Tldr: the GoP needs a come to Jesus intervention

I agree that Trump wasn't a leader, but he certainly took control of the GOP like no other in a generation. And retains that figurehead status even now, with Insurrection & Rape & Financial felony charges bearing down on him. So while objectively he did nothing, the blithering masses who follow him believe he's done everything - if that makes sense.

And I hope this blind appear to idiocy creates that splintered faction, dividing the GOP votes across the country.

- - - Updated - - -

The populism is inherent in both parties, but until Trump, the dichotomy was different. The success Trump had is in muddying the waters between the populism of democrats, which in my history been about middle income and working class, with the military industrial complex and patriotism associated with the military of GOP.

Look at the language used... Before Trump, it’s fossil fuels and big oil. Now it’s “mineral extraction” and “big tech”... I don’t even understand how Trump, the man who increased bombing and arm sales beyond any previous president... literally campaigning on ‘bomb the shit out of them, then give their oil to Exxon’... Is now defending “mineral extraction”...

That’s what I meant by no clear division line between Trump and establishment. One supports the military complex and fossil fuels, while the other support jobs that are exclusive to “mineral extraction” and patriotism of spending on the military. It’s very difficult to reason with people who support an oligarch and establishment that goes back to Rockefeller oil monopoly, but considers people who made it in the last 20 years through “Big Tech” to be oligarchs.

In the end... is the dividing GOP line a real policy issue, or is it vernacular?

The big divide is blatant white supremacy along with populism on a scale we haven't seen in at least a generation. And I fundamentally disagree with your "both sides" argument on populism - it's entirely NOT part of the Democrats. Perhaps we are disagreeing on the definition of populism though....

The language being used is, imo, irrelevant. In Trump we see racism and violence and party-above-country in stunning starkness. And that's what we're fighting against here - and what we say defeat that, to a point, in Nov 2020.

The divide we're seeing in the GOP right now is between those more historical GOP members and the Party of Trump.

[SirBeef]

Is the GOP really in a civil war? I thought it was more like Conservatives in Disarray. But NRSC Chair Rick Scott releases lenghty memo: “REPUBLICAN CIVIL WAR HAS BEEN CANCELLED.”

So upper level leadership feels like they are indeed in some sort of intra-party conflict. What are the various factions vying for control?

Maybe this is the civil war our resident civil war conspiracy theorist really meant.

[Paranoid Android]

Oh this is juicy!!

Q: Do you believe former President Trump should speaking at CPAC?

GOPLeader
: "Yes he should."

RepLizCheney
: "That's up to CPAC....I don't believe that he should be playing a role in the future of the party or the country."

McCarthy: "On that high note, thank you very much."

But this is great here.

Hey Liz- Trump got 74 million votes; you 186,000. A lot of us think Trump has a role but you don’t.

Hmm? So Mike Huckabee is making a big deal over state population and how many votes you get. I think Mike wants to revamp Congressional Representatives and possible Electoral College.

[Breccia]

Mike Huckabee is making a big deal over state population\

How many votes did Huckabee get? I think it was zero.

Oh fine, I'll check how many he got in governor elections. Let's see...500,000 or fewer. People in Arkansas houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Xyonai]

If there's anything I've learned from the last two decades of Republican Legislating is that staying in control comes far before believing in any cohesive type of policy that they don't just pay lip service too (remember Trump's bloated deficit the next time a deficit hawk starts crying about democrat spending).

So the old-school/classic GOPers will pay lip service to moderates about not supporting extremists, but they'll continue to not actually do anything about it until enough voting cycles pass and replace them all with more folks like Hawley or Greene or Boebert and effectively repeats the Tea Party takeover of '09. Just stocked up with more violent psychopaths and r/conspiracy regulars.

[Felya]

The big divide is blatant white supremacy along with populism on a scale we haven't seen in at least a generation.

But, the issue there is the blatant... as in... vernacular...

And I fundamentally disagree with your "both sides" argument on populism - it's entirely NOT part of the Democrats. Perhaps we are disagreeing on the definition of populism though....

It’s not both sides, but politics are always populist.

The language being used is, imo, irrelevant. In Trump we see racism and violence and party-above-country in stunning starkness. And that's what we're fighting against here - and what we say defeat that, to a point, in Nov 2020.

The divide we're seeing in the GOP right now is between those more historical GOP members and the Party of Trump.

What policy would a Trump Republican vote for, that an establishment republicans wouldn’t?

[Logwyn]

The unemployment part is why the comparison looks so skewed. When people talk about the stimulus, they don’t include the fact that you also can collect over 3600 in unemployment.

What state is that??

[Felya]

What state is that??

At least WA... 900 per week... 1200 per week in summer, during first stimulus.

[cubby]

Trump will have a following since " he's not a politician". There's really not a one reason why for others that choose to follow trump or the GoP. Everything from the media to culture wars. Now when/if trump gets nailed by the law. Will his followers leave is yet to be seen. That's assuming stress and debt don't get to him first.

His current followers are likely never to leave. We do have some people who "always vote 'Publican" no matter what, of course. Even if/when Trump is jailed, they will continue to follow him.

And that kind of cult-of-personality is exactly the kind of thing that can splinter a political party. Especially when we have moderate Republicans looking to "save" the party. The only question is whether Trump can retain control of the GOP or if he will have to form his own party.

[Draco-Onis]

The big divide is blatant white supremacy along with populism on a scale we haven't seen in at least a generation. And I fundamentally disagree with your "both sides" argument on populism - it's entirely NOT part of the Democrats. Perhaps we are disagreeing on the definition of populism though....

The language being used is, imo, irrelevant. In Trump we see racism and violence and party-above-country in stunning starkness. And that's what we're fighting against here - and what we say defeat that, to a point, in Nov 2020.

The divide we're seeing in the GOP right now is between those more historical GOP members and the Party of Trump.

Populism is actually a both side things so to speak it's more of a package you can use to wrap anything historically speaking. As for the divide in the GOP I honestly don't think there is one look at the past this is the party of the southern strategy, Richard Nixon the list goes on and on. This has always been in their DNA all Trump did was say the quiet part out loud. They didn't just wake up the party of Trump they have been appealing to that part of the country for decades and wrapping it up in "conservative values".

The only good thing from Trump's 4 years is that he exposed the GOP for what it is the fascism party. The family values and fiscal conservatism pitch went out the window and they all took out their klan robes or pretended to see nothing for judges.

[cubby]

What policy would a Trump Republican vote for, that an establishment republicans wouldn’t?

An establishment Republican might vote for a Democratic initiative, whereas a Trum-publi-kin would NEVER cross party lines.

[Felya]

An establishment Republican might vote for a Democratic initiative, whereas a Trum-publi-kin would NEVER cross party lines.

Trump saving face with 2k stimulus vs Mitch blocking everything... establishment republicans blocked Violence Against Women act funding, while #MeToo was everywhere...

[cubby]

Populism is actually a both side things so to speak it's more of a package you can use to wrap anything historically speaking. As for the divide in the GOP I honestly don't think there is one look at the past this is the party of the southern strategy, Richard Nixon the list goes on and on. This has always been in their DNA all Trump did was say the quiet part out loud. They didn't just wake up the party of Trump they have been appealing to that part of the country for decades and wrapping it up in "conservative values".

The only good thing from Trump's 4 years is that he exposed the GOP for what it is the fascism party. The family values and fiscal conservatism pitch went out the window and they all took out their klan robes or pretended to see nothing for judges.

It also doesn't help that I was misunderstanding populism. My bad to all in that particular conversation.

Agree re Trump's 4 years. Horrifying how close we came to losing the entire country. And we're not out of the fire yet.

[Theodarzna]

Populism is actually a both side things so to speak it's more of a package you can use to wrap anything historically speaking. As for the divide in the GOP I honestly don't think there is one look at the past this is the party of the southern strategy, Richard Nixon the list goes on and on. This has always been in their DNA all Trump did was say the quiet part out loud. They didn't just wake up the party of Trump they have been appealing to that part of the country for decades and wrapping it up in "conservative values".

The only good thing from Trump's 4 years is that he exposed the GOP for what it is the fascism party. The family values and fiscal conservatism pitch went out the window and they all took out their klan robes or pretended to see nothing for judges.

I mean there KINDA is or was a Left Populism but the DNC crushed that quick. More over got all of you to vote for more or less the last living Dixiecrat who isn't going to close down the kids in cages, won't be raising that wages, won't cancel a dime of debt, isn't going to give you health care and already waffled down from 2k to 1.4k on checks which have no arrival date.

Left Populism functionally doesn't exist.

[Machismo]

The GOP isn't in a civil war.

In reality, it's a bunch of Trumpsters crapping all over the place, and a few semi-sane people trying to lie to the world that it doesn't smell like shit. They are simply hoping that the Trumpsters vote as enthusiastically as they shit on the floor.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean there KINDA is or was a Left Populism but the DNC crushed that quick. More over got all of you to vote for more or less the last living Dixiecrat who isn't going to close down the kids in cages, won't be raising that wages, won't cancel a dime of debt, isn't going to give you health care and already waffled down from 2k to 1.4k on checks which have no arrival date.

Left Populism functionally doesn't exist.

The DNC didn't crush anything, that is a lie perpetuated by you Trumpsters.

Bernie lost, get over it.

[Felya]

Bernie lost, get over it.

It’s not about Bernie... the rising had a segment titled... “what did Bernie get for supporting Biden’s nominees”... they can’t figure out why Bernie would side with Biden, instead of GOP... it must have been some sort of plan, where Bernie gets new mittens.

[Draco-Onis]

I mean there KINDA is or was a Left Populism but the DNC crushed that quick. More over got all of you to vote for more or less the last living Dixiecrat who isn't going to close down the kids in cages, won't be raising that wages, won't cancel a dime of debt, isn't going to give you health care and already waffled down from 2k to 1.4k on checks which have no arrival date.

Left Populism functionally doesn't exist.

What are you even on about populism isn't about any policy or side you can use it to push whatever agenda you want that is my point. Trump was against all the things you listed yet you defended him, no amount of whining is going to change the fact that Trump would be worse than almost any democrat that ran on the primary.

- - - Updated - - -

It also doesn't help that I was misunderstanding populism. My bad to all in that particular conversation.

Agree re Trump's 4 years. Horrifying how close we came to losing the entire country. And we're not out of the fire yet.

Unless Trump is unable to do so it looks like he will be the nominee in 2024 and will continue to funnel money from his victims until then. The right wing of this country has taken the masks off and we need to accept it, the press wants to weave a narrative of a civil war but the numbers don't bear it out. If you look at the impeachment the supposed "principled" conservatives are a small minority, let's not forget they were all complicit for four years.

The fact that even after the insurrection the right wing supports this guy is damming.

[Logwyn]

At least WA... 900 per week... 1200 per week in summer, during first stimulus.

3600 a week? month?

[cubby]

Unless Trump is unable to do so it looks like he will be the nominee in 2024 and will continue to funnel money from his victims until then. The right wing of this country has taken the masks off and we need to accept it, the press wants to weave a narrative of a civil war but the numbers don't bear it out. If you look at the impeachment the supposed "principled" conservatives are a small minority, let's not forget they were all complicit for four years.

The fact that even after the insurrection the right wing supports this guy is damming.

It looks like it now, but that is still 3.5+ years away. And a LOT can happen in those three years.

The press can do whatever it wants, but they are not where I'm drawing my conclusions and opinion from. I see GOP leaders (McConnell, Romney, Cheney) wanting to be done with Trump - and they are speaking freely about it. Which means there is already a large rift in the GOP. And there is nothing currently going on to make that rift an issue (no election, etc). Only CPAC is going on now, and lines are being drawn even there. One major aspect in examining the lack of GOP'ers speaking out against Trump during the Trump Residency is that to do so was political suicide. So they didn't. Now, however, they can without the same repercussions - and they are.

Obviously we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out. If Trump can hold onto the reigns (I spelled the purposefully) of GOP power, then he does. But if he can't, and he still wants and needs power (which he does, obviously), then the Party of Trump might be borne. And if it is, the GOP is fucked. Seriously and catastrophically FUCKED. Because a solidly backed neo-con third party will split the "Republican" vote and put the Democrats in a very good position to gain serious ground in the Senate and House, along with retaining the White House.

It's one of the reasons I think McConnell is pushing for Trump investigation/prosecution. It's also one of the reasons I think the Democrats should not attempt to bar Trump from future office with an obscure Constitutional provision.