Will the 9th expansion finally be fresh and not Legon 3.0?

[justandulas]

Luckily, TBC classic is coming, so you can experience raidlogging all over again.

Raid logging is healthy. It means you enjoy life and other games regularly

You know what isn’t healthy? Forcing high end raiders to do weekly activities they dislike in order to play the game they like. I can raid naxxramas in classic with less time in game than I can mythic retail raids.

Forcing people into activities like torghast, m+, rbg... just to raid effectively is bad game design and it feels even worse because this is the 3rd expac in a row where it’s all seasonal throw away content. Like a Diablo 3 season. Gear has never meant less than it does in WoW the last few expacs.

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May God bless you. I've been preaching this for years and was always labeled as an idiot that this would not be true. This game is litteraly World of Diablocraft since Legion.

It is you are 100% right and the reasoning is simple... the d3 team is legit on the current WoW team.

After legion launched and was settled, Blizz brought in jay wilson and some of the people in charge of the worst parts of d3.. over to WoW legion where they have since implemented and designed horrible seasonal or expansion borrowed power. It’s not even really expansions anymore, it’s “seasons”. There’s no ladder of beating raid A to get to B, B to C, C to D, etc.. now everyone just plays A at different skill levels for the same gear. And next patch doesn’t introduce B, it erases A and renames the new content “A” and the process repeats.

Where’s the progression? Where’s the feeling of getting more powerful? Where’s the world of have and have nots? These are all essential to a proper mmorpg and it’s why WoW feels so naked as an mmorpg and feels more like Diablo 3 seasons with raids

[Nubulous]

Now change it from PVP to "Raid". Is your statement still true?

Yes? You dont need to do WQ to raid lol

[Nerovar]

WoW devs are creatively bankrupt as is the rest of this rotten company. Legion was probably their biggest success compared to other expansions in recent years. They'll milk this formular dry until people gouge out their own eyeballs at the sight of Ion showing us the Blizzcon 2023 presentation with WQ™ 5.0, M+™ 5.0, AP™ 5.0 and borrowed power™ 5.0.

[Zka]

Every activity in Shadowlands can be done as a group. This includes Torghast.

/facepalm
This forum is really not worth reading/posting.
According to your definition browsing the AH is a group activity because you can do it in a group.
FYI: group activity means it has been tuned and designed to require cooperating groups. TG is not like that, it's solo content.

Maybe it's just that you really just want your purples

Fuck purples, I want to have fun. And that definitely excludes having to do timegated and artificially slowed down solo content continously.

[clevin]

And this is exactly what i call "blizzard fooled people prime example". Anima behaves like AP for first 1000 a week. Literally cap azerite acquisition to 1000 per week, convert rest of rewards for that week once you reach 1000 to resources = same system. With the exception you get measly amounts from dungeons and raids now.

Are you stupid? You can skip anima ENTIRELY and the game offers you a catchup quest next week. You will not miss any renown. And renown unlocks power.

The first week of the expansion? Yeah, if you wanted 3 renown *at the end of that week* you had to farm 1000 anima. But a) even then you could have simply waited and b) who gives a flying fuck about the first week now?

[rhorle]

FYI: group activity means it has been tuned and designed to require cooperating groups. TG is not like that, it's solo content.

That isn't entirely true though because Torghast has specific design and tuning elements for group play. It is as much group content as it is solo content. It also ignores the fact that all raid and dungeon encounters can be done solo if you can do enough damage or mitigation. This is evident when people like Rextroy solo encounters. https://www.wowhead.com/news=313226/...-nyalotha-raid

Check that link out if you are unfamiliar of his achievements and note how that was done with ilgynoth was "current" content rather then outdated an expansion or two. Obviously with current content people make use of gimmicks and what not in order to do it but that shows that group content isn't really different then solo content in design. It is all how things are tuned.

[Asaliah]

There is absolutely NOTHING new with SL.

Covenants are class halls, soulbinds are artefacts, anima is artefact/azerite power, the maw is the turd you were exploring to get a key in BC, borefast is awfully too long like levelling on vanilla and the 50 new currencies are the same as the old currencies with a different name.

You can clearly see that the budget has become super tight.

[pewpmeiser]

Yes, 1K anima is still anima farming.

And Yes, it is same as AP in Legion/BFA, very easy to catch up.

You aren't farming anima if you just play the game naturally. You get anima from everything, so just by playing the game each week you'll easily hit that 1k. And if you dont want to, you don't have to! Nothing important comes from renown anymore that requires you to do the weekly quests for your covenant, as you get renown just through other means to catch up.

[msdos]

People defending World Quests just shows you how jacked up this game is. There literally is nothing for casuals to do but world quests lmao, someone literally just said on page 1 or 2 that they wouldn't be subbed without them lmao.

Bahahahahahahahahaha. I've seen all I need to see. Game is definitely not for casuals. It may look like it is with the 999 pets and toys, but that stuff is actually for neurotic, OCD compleitionist and collectors, high rated and mythic raiders don't care about any of that completionist stuff.

[rhorle]

People defending World Quests just shows you how jacked up this game is. There literally is nothing for casuals to do but world quests lmao, someone literally just said on page 1 or 2 that they wouldn't be subbed without them lmao.

But how is that any different then in the past?What else was there to do other then dailies? The game isn't jacked up the perception of content in the game is as your argument indicates. There is literally a bunch of stuff for casuals to do in the world other then the actual world quests.

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One of the main reasons i didn't paid for Shadowlands, is because i started to see the same crap all over again. Nothing new, no new class or race. Just another zone with the same system we have been using since Legion. Not even the lore is good enough to read.

That is like saying the game is bad because raids have been around since Vanilla. A basic system showing up over and over isn't bad. The entire game is made up of the same stuff with different colors. Raids, dungeons, zones etc are all just "different colors" when compared to past expansions.

[rhorle]

Wrong!. Every new WoW Expansion brings something new (Nothing new after Legion), some examples:

Races, professions, classes, Wintergrasp (open world battleground), Bonus rep (just rep 2.0) etc are just the same systems with "different colors". The difference here is your perception. It is your bias against the current game rather then the systems only suddenly being repeats. The is evident how you include something like Wintergrap for WotLK but do not include Torghast, Warfronts, or Island Expeditions from Shadowlands and Battle for Azeroth.

[Argorwal]

Hard disagree.
I never cared about grinding gear in wow, especially not in vanilla/tbc/wotlk.
Raiding community was small back in those days and the majority of players played for fun and did not give any serious damn about grinding more powerful gear to do more difficult content.

Purpose of the game is to have fun.
The majority of the players had tons of fun without ever having to grind gear or even entering raids.
Developing your characters is a stable of every RPG but doing it by grinding ilvl/AP is the lamest most unimaginative way of doing it.

As a game gets older there are less and less people who are new or just trying out a game and enjoying the low level aspects of it.

It’s a natural maturing of a game.

Classic wasnt filled with people barely raiding, doing low level dungeons, etc. like vanilla. Its a mature playerbase and it’s focused on getting to 60 ASAP and raiding end game stuff for BiS gear. It was filled with meta raid group stacking, honor grinding pre-makes with low level “pool parties” for bracket inflation, world buff stacking and consume stacking hardcore play styles which were a norm now.

Players have matured and the game isn’t new anymore.

[LordVargK]

Yea, super recycled content to the point that is more of the same, just painted with different colors. But try to make these people see that and they will get mad and defend the game like they defend a country against invasion.

One of the main reasons i didn't paid for Shadowlands, is because i started to see the same crap all over again. Nothing new, no new class or race. Just another zone with the same system we have been using since Legion. Not even the lore is good enough to read.

You're blinded by your hate. Else statements like "there's nothing new" followed by "no new race" and "recycled content painted with new colors" would trigger your inner bullshit sense. "New" races offer literally no new content at all. Each patch containing one dungeon has more new things than every race put into the game after TBC. You ignore actually new innovations like Torghast (which is new, like it or not) and demand things that offer nothing to players who want to stick to their established characters.

[Akibaboy]

World Quests were great and exciting in Legion, then ok BfA, but now totally suck in SL. What happened to the kill one boss WQ's, instead we get these tedious and boring fill the XP bar WQ's and now they seem to take longer, one kill only gives you 1% or 2%, meaning it takes FOREVER to complete it, and by the time I hit 100% and complete the World Quest I am so freaking bored and frustrated.[/B]

I can only really agree with World Quests, but for different reasons. I personally don't want the 1 boss WQs back, because all those ever were was rushing to that mob and hoping to get a tag in the 6 seconds it was alive. I never engaged those elites as unique or engaging encounters that I had to use a little of my class's special sauce to complete. So basically WQ Emissaries boiled down to "fly around and tag easy elites". About the absolute bare minimum of gameplay imo.

My problem with the current quests is how OFTEN you are pulled away from playing your toon. You're a moth, a dredger, a gargoyle, an owlkin running around doing chores. It's the same thing that frustrated me about the Cataclysm leveling revamp, and a lot of MoP's leveling quest design - constantly yanking me out of playing the character I loved to play. WoD (for all its woes) actually refocused quests by having it revolve around a lot of you playing your class and using your skills while events and developments happened around you while you played. It was a total breath of fresh air at the time.

Shadowlands World Quests make that mistake of either having you doing something foreign to you, or if you are playing your toon you're running around trying to tag enemies before they evaporate in the atomic cloud of player abilities. Beyond that, they're terrible at putting the objectives on the map - There's a stealth WQ in Maldraxxus where from the location of where you start the WQ, the objectives are on the complete other side of the fortress to the point where the map cannot display them at any zoom level and you just have to run around for 3-4 minutes to get there.

[rhorle]

Name something that looks the same for Wintergrasp before WOTLK?

Any battleground. The difference with Wintergrasp came from Vehicle combat rather then being a pvp zone. It is entirely an issue of perception which is yet again proved by you saying Torghast is just a MoP scenario. Same thing with Islands simply being called scenarios. They each added unique things to the system that wasn't done before.

New models for races did not suddenly make some races playable. They were always playable you just didn't have an interest in playing them. Which again reinforces the perception issue with yourself and accepting repeats of systems when you like the content and disliking repeats when you hate the content. More then recolors is semantics because the difference between all the stuff you called "recolors" includes things on the same level as new skins, models, and whatever else you arbitrary use for "new feature".

[kaminaris]

Well define doing mythic... Did you clear the raid in two months?

There is a lot a wiggle room between mythic progression and if you arrived to the expansion or even patch cycle late odds are you grinded ap through trivial content.

Longer than 2months, im not interested in playing so long anymore. Needless to say that is still less than 1% of top of playerbase. And if that was enough, it was enough for everyone else.

I played entire bfa from start to finish. Stopped doing emissaries 2-3 months into expansion and didn't do them for entire 2 years (with a small exception of 2 weeks when flying came around). I was never ever forced or even feel forced to farm AP. Nobody said any bar, nobody checked, nobody cared, there was no "curve" to stick with.

SL i quit 2 months ago, absolutely no desire to play.

[Steelangel]

/facepalm
This forum is really not worth reading/posting.
According to your definition browsing the AH is a group activity because you can do it in a group.
FYI: group activity means it has been tuned and designed to require cooperating groups. TG is not like that, it's solo content.

Well, considering that your previous post wanted no solo activities that could give player power that was otherwise unobtainable, the auction house would be a bad example to throw into the "solo activity" bundle, since playing the auction house can lead to massive gold gains and that provides player power not obtainable by Joe Scrub.

Also, Torghast is way more fun in a group.

Fuck purples, I want to have fun. And that definitely excludes having to do timegated and artificially slowed down solo content continously.

Well, what is fun for you may not be fun for others. So respect that---the world does not revolve around Zka.

[Aggressive]

I agree with your concept that we are still in a continued state of systems (3.0), but your examples need work or even more constructive criticism to be taken more seriously.

You created a very long post without really saying anything, honestly, outside of you're bored and tired of grinding.

You ain't the only one feeling this way. And even though people will try and troll you for how you feel, especially the top wow fanboys, their are many who are in the boat with you. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. The fact that blizz timegates almost everything is a fucking nuisance, making world some world quests take forever to complete is boring and dumb, and also making the maw the way it is is also dumb as shit. I am with you when I say we also need a new development team....preferably one that really really listens to people when they have issues about their class and the game.

[Pratt]

There's too much money at stake for them to try anything fresh and new.

[TheFirstOnes]

The issue with WQ's are not the WQ's themselves, but it's the fact that outside of Anima, there really is no reason to do them. They just feel like a worthless, repetitive system.

Gearing in PVE is ass. PVP gear is easy to get, only because mf's carry and shit like that. Tho, people use this to their advantage and ask people for gold in return. Just not worth it. Mythic+ gear maxes at 210, which is horseshit. And the only good factor of it is the fact that, well, after doing 1 or 4 +8's and shit like that, THEN you have a chance to get 216 gear, which is only Heroic Nathria tier. All the high end content is in Mythic Raiding, and the drop rates suck for that

Azerite is better than AP. I'm sorry. It is. It's not something I have to constantly check up on every fucking day or everytime I log off. I complete the 1 Anima quest, I get the fuckin Renown, and I am fine for the rest of the week. It's not repetitive, and it's not game breaking. Soul Binds and Conduits ARE, though. But they're...kinda balanced? But also not really, ya know? Idk what expansion you guys are playing, but Anima is the least of SL's issues.