{TV} The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[Logwyn]

The Tuskegee experiment literally happened. I understand it makes some racists uncomfortable to have to face the reality of...you know...racism, but you're going to have to fucking deal with it.

You are talking about the Syphilis experiment out of Tuskegee from 1932 to 1972? That's more an example of classism than overt racism. Many of the higher-ups at Tuskegee and involved were African-American. There is some debate as to what some of the nurses and doctors knew was going on. Eugene Dibble certainly knew what was going on. Eunice Rivers knew that some patients weren't getting treatment but continued to recruit for the study over its 40 years.

The case here is more about the African-American doctors (upper class) not being able to relate to the lower class African-Americans. If we are going to tell the stories we need to tell them as a whole and not leave out the parts that make things worse than they are or inaccurate.

[Stardrift]

Just because people deal with social issues in their art doesn’t mean everything deals with social issues. Get over it.

It has made its way into everything. It's fucking hard to find something that isn't lecturing me on shit I already know and agree with. It's done to keep people like you clapping and eating and shitting and eating, regurgitating the same shit over and over and over again. What's the point? It isn't doing anything positive. The most it is doing is turning people against your cause.

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Explain to me how anything in TFATWS is creating more hate and division. Provide examples.

Look at the amount of people speaking out against the social politics in it. People are sick of it. Anytime it appears in something, people rightfully get pissed off. It's tiring.

Why do you defend this? People want escapism, not something yanking them right back to reality. What is with this "you're with us or you're against us" attitude?

[Volardelis]

If you can't tell the difference between social politics and fantasy politics, you're far gone and not worth discussing anything with.

So basically you don't like simple facts about the themes and social commentary the show and the movies it directly follows were about. Movies like Black Panther have already talked about racial and social politics in the MCU, and that movie does tie into this series as well. So again, why are you acting surprised and offended when a show that is a sequel to the two main political franchises in the MCU talks about racial and social politics.

[Endus]

Dude, people were murdered on the streets by rioters, including a black cop trying to intervene with the torching of a building in broad daylight. I saw the video and it was fucking awful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violen..._United_States

If you go through the list, you'll find that nearly every single instance is either a right-wing agitator or a police officer killing a protester. The few exceptions are mostly attempted attacks by the same, in self-defense.

As for the black officer you're talking about, I presume you're talking about David Dorn, who was a retired police captain. That shooting occurred at a burglary miles away from the protests and hours after the protests were over; it's entirely unrelated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_David_Dorn

So, you're pushing racist conspiracy theories that have no basis in reality.

Stretch the truth and make up conspiracy theories all you'd like, it doesn't change the fact that something that was peaceful was turned violent real quickly.

I'm not the one lying, here.

Hell, BLM rioters tried to storm the capitol and people mistook it for the whitehouse and cheered for it being burned down.

Are you so deeply confused that you think the January 6 insurrectionists were BLM members?

If you're referring to the peaceful BLM protests in front of the capitol, you're just lying.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...dc4e9418019eb5

Am I making shit up? Who the fuck knows, the media you worship and deem credible certainly has it all buried thanks to the abuse of the Google search algorithm. Trust me or not, there's vitriol, hatred and violence on both sides and that in of itself is undeniable.

1> You're pushing a conspiracy theory about the media that has no basis in fact or reality, here.
2> "Both sides" is a false equivalence, as demonstrated in the link just up there.

People like me? We're just sick of seeing it everywhere. Learn to keep it in one or two places. Hell, make a ton of places specifically for it. Just don't turn things that aren't about it into social political lecture circlejerk centers.

Or maybe you can just learn to cope.

Can we get back to discussing the show and not the fragility of some viewers who can't handle the themes it's dealing with?

[tyrlaan]

Look at the amount of people speaking out against the social politics in it. People are sick of it. Anytime it appears in something, people rightfully get pissed off. It's tiring.

Why do you defend this? People want escapism, not something yanking them right back to reality. What is with this "you're with us or you're against us" attitude?

Literally no examples. No real explanation. I asked for both and just got whiny vague commentary that you've already made abundantly clear in your previous ranty posts.

If you need your escapism so badly there is a veritable abundance of other media to watch. I mean, if you have an ounce of intelligence, you should have known where this show was going before it even aired or very quickly after, like, one episode. So really, what you're complaining about is that you can't have your cake and eat it to, which is 100% on you.

(Not to mention it makes 10000% for these characters to have these conversations and these experiences. It would be insanely weird to white wash this all away considering the source material and, you know, reality.)

[s_bushido]

Look at the amount of people speaking out against the social politics in it. People are sick of it. Anytime it appears in something, people rightfully get pissed off.

Yes, we're well aware that selling outrage about the evil SJWs is big business on the internet. It means jack shit. Flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers are pretty popular these days as well, and it doesn't mean that producers, writers, and directors are required to cater to their various denials of reality.

[Egomaniac]

Yes, we're well aware that selling outrage about the evil SJWs is big business on the internet. It means jack shit. Flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers are pretty popular these days as well, and it doesn't mean that producers, writers, and directors are required to cater to their various denials of reality.

Guaranteed if the networks started "Cramming" conservative talking points into their programming...they'd be quiet as a mouse.

They could have whole episodes about cop shooting a black kids in traffic stops and justifying it because the kid "resisted arrest"

[Doffen]

Loved the boat scene in the latest episode. When Bucky just came and took off the thing off the truck, that was funny Cozy!

They fit so well together, Stan and Mackie.

[Stardrift]

Literally no examples. No real explanation. I asked for both and just got whiny vague commentary that you've already made abundantly clear in your previous ranty posts.

If you need your escapism so badly there is a veritable abundance of other media to watch. I mean, if you have an ounce of intelligence, you should have known where this show was going before it even aired or very quickly after, like, one episode. So really, what you're complaining about is that you can't have your cake and eat it to, which is 100% on you.

(Not to mention it makes 10000% for these characters to have these conversations and these experiences. It would be insanely weird to white wash this all away considering the source material and, you know, reality.)

Nothing you can say to deny the fact social politics have made its way into everything. Not sure why it pisses you off so much that people don't enjoy it. Clearly you've got some figuring out to do. All of you lol

Enjoy spamming me, I guess.

[Egomaniac]

Nothing you can say to deny the fact social politics have made its way into everything. Not sure why it pisses you off so much that people don't enjoy it. Clearly you've got some figuring out to do. All of you lol

Enjoy spamming me, I guess.

If people didn't enjoy it...it wouldn't be "in everything".

[Polyxo]

So is Selina Meyer the power broker or somebody else, or don't we know?

[Stardrift]

If people didn't enjoy it...it wouldn't be "in everything".

A lot of people do, a lot of people don't. A lot of people don't enjoy wow (for numerous reasons unrelated) yet it is successful.

People part of the social politics crowd tend to buy into anything that caters to their opinions and world view. And if something doesn't, they begin to demand it.

If it isn't the fans, it's the media. NYT recently put out a hitlist of companies that won't bend to politicizing themselves. It's an intimidation tactic. It's being done by force.

[Egomaniac]

A lot of people do, a lot of people don't. A lot of people don't enjoy wow (for numerous reasons unrelated) yet it is successful.

People part of the social politics crowd tend to buy into anything that caters to their opinions and world view. And if something doesn't, they begin to demand it.

If it isn't the fans, it's the media. NYT recently put out a hitlist of companies that won't bend to politicizing themselves. It's an intimidation tactic. It's being done by force.

The broadcasters make TV for the majority. If they are "pushing" anything...it's something the majority is ok with being "pushed". You, personally, may not like it but you are speaking only for your self.

And, if they were "pushing" values that you aligned yourself with...you wouldn't be complaining.

[Stardrift]

Guaranteed if the networks started "Cramming" conservative talking points into their programming...they'd be quiet as a mouse.

They could have whole episodes about cop shooting a black kids in traffic stops and justifying it because the kid "resisted arrest"

So you're assuming I'm a conservative? Is everything so black and white to you? I've stated I agree with the many political messages that pop media pushes. I just don't like how it's crammed into everything. It's constant lecturing and virtue signalling.

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The broadcasters make TV for the majority. If they are "pushing" anything...it's something the majority is ok with being "pushed". You, personally, may not like it but you are speaking only for your self.

And, if they were "pushing" values that you aligned yourself with...you wouldn't be complaining.

It goes over a lot of people's heads, or they simply tolerate it. And then there's the crowd that just wants away from it all, and used these mediums to do so, and now can no longer do so.

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Literally no examples. No real explanation. I asked for both and just got whiny vague commentary that you've already made abundantly clear in your previous ranty posts.

If you need your escapism so badly there is a veritable abundance of other media to watch. I mean, if you have an ounce of intelligence, you should have known where this show was going before it even aired or very quickly after, like, one episode. So really, what you're complaining about is that you can't have your cake and eat it to, which is 100% on you.

(Not to mention it makes 10000% for these characters to have these conversations and these experiences. It would be insanely weird to white wash this all away considering the source material and, you know, reality.)

Yes, you're correct. I knew exactly where it was going the moment Bucky and Sam couldn't shut up about their skin colours.

[Ihavewaffles]

That was never stated. He said he rescued a couple and what did he get in return? *lifts shirt to show scars* he was experimented on for 30 years until someone took pity and helped him fake his own death. They erased him and his history.

that was stated, he said they eventually died off one by one, you are purposely ignoring that line, it was AFTER that he went to jail, seems the usual suspects keep ignoring that, since you are unwilling to have a discussion but push ur bullshit, welcome to ignore list since you can't stop taking the general off-topic bullshit to these forums as well.

[Stardrift]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violen..._United_States

If you go through the list, you'll find that nearly every single instance is either a right-wing agitator or a police officer killing a protester. The few exceptions are mostly attempted attacks by the same, in self-defense.

As for the black officer you're talking about, I presume you're talking about David Dorn, who was a retired police captain. That shooting occurred at a burglary miles away from the protests and hours after the protests were over; it's entirely unrelated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_David_Dorn

So, you're pushing racist conspiracy theories that have no basis in reality.



I'm not the one lying, here.



Are you so deeply confused that you think the January 6 insurrectionists were BLM members?

If you're referring to the peaceful BLM protests in front of the capitol, you're just lying.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...dc4e9418019eb5



1> You're pushing a conspiracy theory about the media that has no basis in fact or reality, here.
2> "Both sides" is a false equivalence, as demonstrated in the link just up there.



Or maybe you can just learn to cope.

Can we get back to discussing the show and not the fragility of some viewers who can't handle the themes it's dealing with?

Everything you're listing off checks out, but the capitol thing. Yes, Trumptards stormed the capitol. But what I'm talking about was during the exact BLM riots. People were attempting to break into the capitol, but were dealt with. People still cheered it on, and incited it.

The thing about the media is entirely true. It's a known issue that media outlets will reiterate search tags over and over and over throughout their articles. Some even being entirely blatant about it. An example being googling a pancake recipe. "How to make pancakes". Click an article, and it starts off with "How to make pancakes"

Then a secondary title at the start of the first paragraph. "How to cook pancakes". Then a third title, at the second paragraph. "Pancake recipe".

The search algorithm is very easy to manipulate. And it is no doubt abused for political purposes. On top of that, wikipedia is often edited by emotional and biased editors for both ends of the political spectrum. Descriptions start off with ""far-right" or "far-left" extremist ____ is a.." Needless labels plastered onto people who are often unaligned or center aligned, just to give you a preconceived idea of the person.

And don't get me started on the whole judging whether or not someone's a conservative/liberal based off of their opinions on social politics, issues that shouldn't even be political in the first place.

There's a massive problem with these topics above. It shouldn't even be political for someone to be trans, black, white, etc.

TL;DR: Listen man. I just wish people would get over the fact that we're all just humans. I just want my hobbies to be about having fun, instead of sending messages. And I know that deep down, just about anyone agrees with that.

[Egomaniac]

S

It goes over a lot of people's heads, or they simply tolerate it. And then there's the crowd that just wants away from it all, and used these mediums to do so, and now can no longer do so.

If it's going over peoples heads...then they obviously can't be pushing it very hard...

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TL;DR: Listen man. I just wish people would get over the fact that we're all just humans. I just want my hobbies to be about having fun, instead of sending messages. And I know that deep down, just about anyone agrees with that.

Television has always sent messages. You just aren't comfortable with the current messaging. That's a "you" problem.

[s_bushido]

So is Selina Meyer the power broker or somebody else, or don't we know?

I never look too deep into this sort of thing, just to avoid inevitable spoilers, but as far as the little I know: She's a separate character entirely. Strange to just introduce another person like that out of the blue when there's already been a "powerful person working behind the scenes" character set up, though. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Polyxo]

I never look too deep into this sort of thing, just to avoid inevitable spoilers, but as far as the little I know: She's a separate character entirely. Strange to just introduce another person like that out of the blue when there's already been a "powerful person working behind the scenes" character set up, though. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Okay, but can we get MCU Jonah and MCU Splett?

[Volardelis]

Nothing you can say to deny the fact social politics have made its way into everything. Not sure why it pisses you off so much that people don't enjoy it. Clearly you've got some figuring out to do. All of you lol

Enjoy spamming me, I guess.

I don't recall seeing nor hearing any social politics in Wandavision.