Bwomsamdi isn't a Zandalari troll

[Syegfryed]

I think they retconned him. First he was this creepy Loa that Vol'jin (and other trolls) often called upon in rituals, and now he's this friendly Ryuk troll dude who loves to make deals with anyone who'll listen to him. Also, I think he might not be as powerful as he thinks if Mueh'zala can just trap him.

Could've sworn there's a quest where a Broker asks you to bring him a mask that can from an 'older civillization who worshipped Mueh'zala'. Not 100% what that even means, but it *could* hint at 'Proto-trolls' existing at some point

i think it is more expanding his lore due to the fan recepetion and less about retcon.

They said mueh'zala was the loa of dead to all trolls, but when he raised bwosandi the other tribes prefer him, and only after a time they all forgot mueh'zala except the sandfury.

Since it take a heck of time to forget something like this, Bwosandi ascension is either by the time the zandalari empire was being formed or before that, so he could not be from any of the other trolls subraces.

[huth]

i think it is more expanding his lore due to the fan recepetion and less about retcon.

They said mueh'zala was the loa of dead to all trolls, but when he raised bwosandi the other tribes prefer him, and only after a time they all forgot mueh'zala except the sandfury.

Since it take a heck of time to forget something like this, Bwosandi ascension is either by the time the zandalari empire was being formed or before that, so he could not be from any of the other trolls subraces.

How much do you know about common beliefs at the start of the 20th century? Bwonsamdi's ascension could have been in the last millenium based on that alone.

[Nathreim]

Bwonsamdi isnt even a Troll. He was whatever Trolls were before they became Trolls. He is far older than the Troll people he just takes their form as a Loa.

[LemonDemonGirl]

I think you should look more into his real world inspiration... i mean, they didn't even bother changing the name. The Ryuk similarities are likely to be more coincidental actually.

Also, i think that should be "not as powerful as he would like you to think he is". At least part of which is down to him having traded away a large part of his power for bargains.

Well, he should have a wife, yet still 'meet' other women then lol

And yeah, his name is basically Baron Samedi but with a diffrence pronociation

[Syegfryed]

How much do you know about common beliefs at the start of the 20th century? Bwonsamdi's ascension could have been in the last millenium based on that alone.

hum? we do know about common beliefs of people from a millennium before.

Like, forgetting the prime Loa of death? this should take a lot of time, so yeah, make sense that his ascension was before the trolls empires, and as the empires rose bwosandi became more prominent and they forget muezala

[huth]

hum? we do know about common beliefs of people from a millennium before.

Like, forgetting the prime Loa of death? this should take a lot of time, so yeah, make sense that his ascension was before the trolls empires, and as the empires rose bwosandi became more prominent and they forget muezala

We have some very spotty knowledge of things they didn't actively try to get away from, and very little of that is common knowledge. People are already forgetting the horrors of WW2.

No, forgetting a guy they didn't want to remember wouldn't need anywhere near as long, and the time you're talking about would be before Azshara became the Queen of the Night Elves. You're off by a few orders of magnitude.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Well if you think of it this way The Lich King is a name or rather a title the actual entity can be Arthus or Bolvar etc.

SO I think it's important unless evidence to the contrary to consider the same thing when it comes to Bwonsamdi.

Also going by his looks could be a mistake as well.


Personally I understand the question but I think it's misguided, because whatever Bwonsamdi was if he ever was anything isn't really relevant in terms to what Bwonsamdi is an agent.


However just for the fun of theory crafting, I would imagine, Bwonsamdi actually being part of some failed easily conquered tribe. The reason I say this is because if Bwonsamdi had a good or great life, I don't think he would be an agent of death. Something most likely happened tragic to his tribe, but left him as significant because maybe he was a great shaman or something as such similar to say like Sylvannas he was approached with the opportunity to serve death.


Bottom line if we are looking for the origins of Bwonsamdi I think it would make sense to forget which specific tribe, because in all likelihood due to his age and the factors I mentioned they are extinct. Probably why he was so eager to help the Zandalari because he has no people.

Look at the Pattern Death uses to choose his agents as far as him specifically if he ever. I would also look into whatever prejudices or likes he seems to have as a Loa that is likely to have carried over from his previous life as I said if he had one.

[Syegfryed]

We have some very spotty knowledge of things they didn't actively try to get away from, and very little of that is common knowledge. People are already forgetting the horrors of WW2.

we are not talking about things or events, we are talking about their literally real gods

No, forgetting a guy they didn't want to remember wouldn't need anywhere near as long, and the time you're talking about would be before Azshara became the Queen of the Night Elves. You're off by a few orders of magnitude.

Again, if we get the hints of Bwosandi ascension, by the time he became loa, and how the troll tribes were arose, it points towards him being someone from the proto troll tribes or the first trolls who formed the zandalari.

[huth]

we are not talking about things or events, we are talking about their literally real gods

So? That doesn't make much of a difference for memory. Doesn't really seem like Mueh'zala was doing much of anything publicly, unlike the rather active Bwonsamdi, either.

Again, if we get the hints of Bwosandi ascension, by the time he became loa, and how the troll tribes were arose, it points towards him being someone from the proto troll tribes or the first trolls who formed the zandalari.

You haven't really provided any evidence for that. Bwonsamdi could have ascended anywhere between the first (proto)trolls to have some form of organised religion and somewhere in the last few millenia, post War of the Ancients. Forgetting about Mueh'zala doesn't limit it to more than the most recent few centuries, especially since he's still remembered enough to have active worshippers.

[Kufell]

Most likely Zandalari, Proto-Zandalari or whatever Trolls were before they were Trolls, it seems likely that at one point most Trolls, if not all worshipped Mueh'zala, though since his raising Bwonsamdi to a Loa in his own right, most switched, as he wasn't so demanding of his followers, and seems to actually be interested in offering them an afterlife rather than consuming them, thus in modern times, only Farraki were left following Mueh'zala as it seems Bwonsamdi doesn't deal with Farraki souls, for some reason.

There's a lot of speculation that Bwonsamdi must be older than Troll-kind as he makes reference to what Trolls evolved from in a question to Vol'jin, but technically he makes no statement of knowing the answer himself, just that there was something, and even if he does know, still doesn't mean it's from first hand experience, we don't know for sure just yet, and whether we ever will learn more in relation to early Troll history is another question entirely.

In any case though, as others have stated, Zul is a Zandalari that hunches due to his age, so based solely on the fact Bwonsamdi also hunches isn't an indication of anything.

[------------------------]

Bwonsamdi isnt even a Troll. He was whatever Trolls were before they became Trolls. He is far older than the Troll people he just takes their form as a Loa.

yeah, i remember reading something like this before. A member from a previous stage, like the ogron to ogres.

good bye everyone, these were some good 10 years playing wow

[LemonDemonGirl]

Most likely Zandalari, Proto-Zandalari or whatever Trolls were before they were Trolls, it seems likely that at one point most Trolls, if not all worshipped Mueh'zala, though since his raising Bwonsamdi to a Loa in his own right, most switched, as he wasn't so demanding of his followers, and seems to actually be interested in offering them an afterlife rather than consuming them, thus in modern times, only Farraki were left following Mueh'zala as it seems Bwonsamdi doesn't deal with Farraki souls, for some reason.

There's a lot of speculation that Bwonsamdi must be older than Troll-kind as he makes reference to what Trolls evolved from in a question to Vol'jin, but technically he makes no statement of knowing the answer himself, just that there was something, and even if he does know, still doesn't mean it's from first hand experience, we don't know for sure just yet, and whether we ever will learn more in relation to early Troll history is another question entirely.

In any case though, as others have stated, Zul is a Zandalari that hunches due to his age, so based solely on the fact Bwonsamdi also hunches isn't an indication of anything.

I'm leaning to him probably being a Pre-troll tbh. He dosen't have the scales that Zandalari do, and has a completely diffrent accent then they do lol

He could be a 'mixed' troll though.Might explain his blaclk hair that no other troll tribe has

[Alanar]

I believe somewhere it was stated, could be wrong, that he's not a troll but took the form of one.

How did get the accent then?

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I'm leaning to him probably being a Pre-troll tbh. He dosen't have the scales that Zandalari do, and has a completely diffrent accent then they do lol

He could be a 'mixed' troll though.Might explain his blaclk hair that no other troll tribe has

Yea this, idk if we ever will find out.

[huth]

How did get the accent then?

Constantly talking to Trolls. Given his position, the most likely accent would be a composite of all tribes but the Farraki.

[cparle87]

How much do you know about common beliefs at the start of the 20th century? Bwonsamdi's ascension could have been in the last millenium based on that alone.

Considering the trolls all remember Hakkar who was also into the whole blood sacrifice thing, but have completely forgotten about Mueh'zala, who seemed to have done it even worse to the point he pissed off every troll race but the most desperate. And before you mention Hakkar was recent don't forget he tried for the Zandalari way back before they had kings when the huge plague was going on.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

He doesn’t look like Zandalari Troll. Looks to me more like a regular troll or some sort of a dark troll.

[Alanar]

Constantly talking to Trolls. Given his position, the most likely accent would be a composite of all tribes but the Farraki.

It does make sense ye.. this happens alot actually, not rly wow related even.

People take over accents eventually.

[huth]

Considering the trolls all remember Hakkar who was also into the whole blood sacrifice thing, but have completely forgotten about Mueh'zala, who seemed to have done it even worse to the point he pissed off every troll race but the most desperate. And before you mention Hakkar was recent don't forget he tried for the Zandalari way back before they had kings when the huge plague was going on.

The Zandalari made huge monuments to that event. They made an active effort to remember it. Nobody made an effort to remember Mueh'zala, and they might actually have made one to forget him, given that it's been noted to weaken him.

[Syegfryed]

So? That doesn't make much of a difference for memory. Doesn't really seem like Mueh'zala was doing much of anything publicly, unlike the rather active Bwonsamdi, either.

you think a past event, make no difference to a literal god who interact with then?

they went for bwosamdi because he didn't require life sacrifices, not because mueh'zala was not a public figure.

You haven't really provided any evidence for that. Bwonsamdi could have ascended anywhere between the first (proto)trolls to have some form of organised religion and somewhere in the last few millenia, post War of the Ancients. Forgetting about Mueh'zala doesn't limit it to more than the most recent few centuries, especially since he's still remembered enough to have active worshippers.

being forgotenand replaces by all but one troll tribe is not something you do in centuries, again, he was not just put aside, he was forgotten

Plus, zandalari worship Bwosandi a lot more than mue'zala, prideful how they are, they would not worship a troll raised from the smaller tribes, plus, if he was raised from a sand troll it does not make sense they preferring muezala, and dark trolls have little to none relation to mu'ezala or bwosandi at all, in fact he was majorly worshiped by the zandalari and the darkspear.

[Deneios]

Or bwomsandi is just a image of death to trolls. As they get older they hunch back as a mark of old age. Motled skin and showing bone as a mark of decay and death. Loa of life would be polar opposite of bwomsandi with upright posture and perfect and healthy skin