Warcraft lore vs Warhammer fantasy lore

[Triceron]

Their lore is similar, Lord Kroak may have died in the World That Was, but that doesn't mean he's not still slinging spells from his corpse. When the old world blew up, the Slann loaded all the Lizardmen into Zigurats and took off into space. Now they're back to keep fighting chaos just like they used to.

Well.. yeah.... that's pretty much exactly how I figured it to be. Space marine fan fic invading WFB.

I mean I totally get it, because Space Marines are GW's bread and butter. Like an absurd percentage of 40k players are all Space Marine players, with Chaos coming in a close second. WFB was not even on the map in their sales in comparison, even if I preferred the universe over 40k.

But what they've done to lore with the death of gods and the rebirth of new or different ones and tying that all with new technology and space travel and stuff is just too much.

As much as Warcraft has gone beyond the traditional 'high fantasy' tropes and delved into cosmic and space stuff, it still does so as a part of the fantasy universe. What Age of Sigmar does seems a lot more like trying to retrofit the best attributes of 40k in a Fantasy setting. I find it really odd, considering 40k itself had roots in fantasy (Orcs in space, Elves in space, Space undead etc) and Age of Sigmar has come full circle.

[Soon-TM]

Warhammer races seem even more one-note than Warcraft races. All orks are dumb gits, all dwarfs are grudge-obsessed grumps, all Asur are arrogant prima donnas, all Druchii are 14 yr old internet edgelords.

Even then, that's still more variety than the entirety of the Alliance and ~80% (and growing) of the nu-Horde, who are nothing but the same boring, stereotypical Lawful Good™ folks to the point of masochism. Only the envelope differs in WoW.

[ro9ue]

Warcraft is to Warhammer what Domino's is to an authentic homemade Italian pizza.

[Nork]

I only recently got into Warhammer (back in Ye Olden Days, I was a Battletech guy), but as I mentioned above the main thing is that all the Warhammer lines right now have so many books, it's probably easy to find something you like (or, dislike) fiction wise. Game wise, while the Stormcast Eternals may have seemed like Space Marines, I don't think they're anywhere near as popular. Space Marines dominate the sales, but Age of Sigmar spread it's influence out more. Hell, I started with Seraphon because I wanted to paint dinosaurs. Most of the models are literally WFB models (half of them finecast!), but the army is still picked up and played and competitive.
Their lore is similar, Lord Kroak may have died in the World That Was, but that doesn't mean he's not still slinging spells from his corpse. When the old world blew up, the Slann loaded all the Lizardmen into Zigurats and took off into space. Now they're back to keep fighting chaos just like they used to.

Age of Sigmar's lore is terrible and makes no sense. It's not attractive anymore. Warhammer Fantasy had many amazing things, interesting stories you wanna read more about. Age of Sigmar is a joke.

[Dhrizzle]

Well.. yeah.... that's pretty much exactly how I figured it to be. Space marine fan fic invading WFB.

I mean I totally get it, because Space Marines are GW's bread and butter. Like an absurd percentage of 40k players are all Space Marine players, with Chaos coming in a close second. WFB was not even on the map in their sales in comparison, even if I preferred the universe over 40k.

But what they've done to lore with the death of gods and the rebirth of new or different ones and tying that all with new technology and space travel and stuff is just too much.

As much as Warcraft has gone beyond the traditional 'high fantasy' tropes and delved into cosmic and space stuff, it still does so as a part of the fantasy universe. What Age of Sigmar does seems a lot more like trying to retrofit the best attributes of 40k in a Fantasy setting. I find it really odd, considering 40k itself had roots in fantasy (Orcs in space, Elves in space, Space undead etc) and Age of Sigmar has come full circle.

It's not really space travel - the Mortal Realms are more like celestial spheres than planets,and only the Seraphon (Lizardmen) move between the realms freely. Everyone else gets around by Realmgates which are muchmore of a fantasy construct. The only other "high-tech" race is the Kharadron Overlords, steampunk dwarves in a sort of power armour who fly through the atmospheres in huge airships, and really those and the Seraphon feel like evolutions of their original Old World races. Even the Stormcast or "Sigmarines" are more like angels than genetically engineered supermen, in fact they're very similar to the Kirians in Shadowlands, while the way the realms are connected and themed are close to the Shadowlands themselves. It's not traditional Tolkien fantasy but it's also not like they've gone Burning Crusade or Starjammer. Really the whole thing is delightfully nuts.

[ParanoiD84]

It's not really space travel - the Mortal Realms are more like celestial spheres than planets,and only the Seraphon (Lizardmen) move between the realms freely. Everyone else gets around by Realmgates which are muchmore of a fantasy construct. The only other "high-tech" race is the Kharadron Overlords, steampunk dwarves in a sort of power armour who fly through the atmospheres in huge airships, and really those and the Seraphon feel like evolutions of their original Old World races. Even the Stormcast or "Sigmarines" are more like angels than genetically engineered supermen, in fact they're very similar to the Kirians in Shadowlands, while the way the realms are connected and themed are close to the Shadowlands themselves. It's not traditional Tolkien fantasy but it's also not like they've gone Burning Crusade or Starjammer. Really the whole thing is delightfully nuts.

And if there is one thing Games Workshop keeps delivering is amazing art for all warhammer settings and they still deliver in AoS.

The setting is still pretty young too only at second edition so far.

Just a few goodies as examples from AoS.

[Soimu]

Which franchise has got better lore and why?

None. Both are silly and for kids.
Warcraft used to have a good lore but WOW ruined it and now it makes absolutely no sense.

[Nork]

None. Both are silly and for kids.
Warcraft used to have a good lore but WOW ruined it and now it makes absolutely no sense.

For kids? Could you tell us why both are for kids?

[Soimu]

For kids? Could you tell us why both are for kids?

Am not that good english speaker to explain in details but in short it's missing the level of maturity LOTR has in storytelling and character development. But it's understandable i guess since those are books.

[Northem]

Which franchise has got better lore and why?

Warcraft has lore? LOL Don't you dare compare those franchises please...

For many years now, everything related to Warcraft has been nothing more than a parody

[Nerovar]

There used to be a time where this question was a bit harder to answer. These days I can immediately tell you that I prefer Warhammer. The problem with Warcraft lore is its lack of continuity. It started with TBC and then quickly spiraled out of control. Establishing a long-standing fictional setting doesn't work without sticking to your own rules.

Blizzard's approach is perfectly encapsulated in this quote by Sean Copeland:
"My team believes that continuity exists to enhance a story, not to tie the hands of creators"

A story that can go anywhere due to the whims of a new writer taking over is bound to ultimately go nowhere. You can't expect people stay invested in something that drastically changes its identity every couple of years. Warhammer understood this and did it right for years. Stories in Warhammer usually aren't about the world, the universe or even just nations; they're stories about people first and foremost and the world is (for the most part) as indifferent to them as our world is to us and our personal stories.

Therefor the overall tempo by which these fictional worlds change is completely different. If you look at the history of the Warcraft setting, big conflicts like the War of the Ancients, the Troll Wars, War of Three Hammers, First/Second/Third War used to be hundreds if not thousands of years apart. Ever since WoW however we see potentially world ending threats on Azeroth every one to two years effectively causing us to burn through old lore more quickly than new lore can be established. It's a form of self-cannibalization that is rooted in the short-sightedness of Blizzard's writers (or whoever makes these decisions) who always want to one-up the previous expansion.

Age of Sigmar's lore is terrible and makes no sense. It's not attractive anymore. Warhammer Fantasy had many amazing things, interesting stories you wanna read more about. Age of Sigmar is a joke.

I agree. If you enjoyed Warhammer due to its lore Age of Sigmar is practically worthless.

[Beastiel]

AOS lore has gotten a lot better and less generic than WHFB. The recent Broken Realms: Morathi has been amazing in terms of being a well-written piece that actually moves the story forward

Well.. yeah.... that's pretty much exactly how I figured it to be. Space marine fan fic invading WFB.

Stormcast really don't resemble space marines in any logical way except arguably aesthetically in that they have a big clunky silhouette. The best part is that, even if that comparison is true, stormcast would still be less annoying than space marines because the entire story and release schedule doesn't revolve around them, they're just a well-supported faction. Whereas spacemarines feel like literally half of 40k at the very least.

Age of Sigmar's lore is terrible and makes no sense. It's not attractive anymore. Warhammer Fantasy had many amazing things, interesting stories you wanna read more about. Age of Sigmar is a joke.

How was WHFB's lore not a joke? the dwarves had a legal system based on insults, there's a faction of pirate zombies that literally came into existence because one of the writers thought pirates of the Caribbean kicked ass. There are multiple major lore events that existed just to be stupid and funny.

[ParanoiD84]

Also for those unaware Warhammer Fantasy will be returning in the so called The Old World in a couple years or so with fully fleshed out factions/races and novels with new lore.

Age of Sigmar will continue though as it's been a huge sucess for GW in terms of sales so there will be 3 settings 40K, AoS and the old world to keep everyone happy.

Personaly i cant wait for the old world as i grew up with it with novels like Gotrek and Felix. Though not sure they will be in that as Gotrek is in AoS atm kicking ass and Felix i reckon will find his way there too. But still i got into warhammer because of the stories and the characters so pretty sure there will be plenty more of that.

And if you have not read the Gotrek and Felix novels yet i highly recommend that you do if you want well writen fantasy adventures.

[LemonDemonGirl]

And if there is one thing Games Workshop keeps delivering is amazing art for all warhammer settings and they still deliver in AoS.

The setting is still pretty young too only at second edition so far.

Just a few goodies as examples from AoS.
]

If only Maldraxxus was cool-looking like that

[ParanoiD84]

If only Maldraxxus was cool-looking like that

It's the lovely Flesh-Eater Courts hehe GW have yet to add proper vampires to the setting but they will come soon.

[LordVargK]

Warcraft lore (since WC3) is basically humans, green humans, purple humans with long ears, undead humans, blue humans, short humans, furry humans and goblins.
Before it was a Warhammer copy. So, without knowing the lore of Warhammer all too well, I know that WC is heavily inspired by it. So I choose Warhammer. Shadowlands lore is pretty interesting, though, but BfA kinda killed my interest in WoW lore.

[Nork]

AOS lore has gotten a lot better and less generic than WHFB. The recent Broken Realms: Morathi has been amazing in terms of being a well-written piece that actually moves the story forward



Stormcast really don't resemble space marines in any logical way except arguably aesthetically in that they have a big clunky silhouette. The best part is that, even if that comparison is true, stormcast would still be less annoying than space marines because the entire story and release schedule doesn't revolve around them, they're just a well-supported faction. Whereas spacemarines feel like literally half of 40k at the very least.



How was WHFB's lore not a joke? the dwarves had a legal system based on insults, there's a faction of pirate zombies that literally came into existence because one of the writers thought pirates of the Caribbean kicked ass. There are multiple major lore events that existed just to be stupid and funny.

Luthor Harkon is a joke? What are you talking about? His story added an interesting character to explore. You're using a simple fallacy to scorn Warhammer Fantasy's lore. It's like saying LOTRO's lore is a joke because the hobbits are silly and they walk barefoot.

Age of Sigmar's got a universe nobody really cares about. Its story is simple and its characters are a shadow of what they were in Warhammer Fantasy.

[Svifnymr]

Well.. yeah.... that's pretty much exactly how I figured it to be. Space marine fan fic invading WFB.

Seraphon are the lizardmen. They were always closely linked to the Old Ones and had tech they didn't understand and the Slaan have always been what they are now. The fact they rode out the destruction of the old world by throwing their ziggurats into space isn't really space marine-y at all.

I mean I totally get it, because Space Marines are GW's bread and butter. Like an absurd percentage of 40k players are all Space Marine players, with Chaos coming in a close second. WFB was not even on the map in their sales in comparison, even if I preferred the universe over 40k.

As I said though, I don't think the Stormcast Eternals are as much of a game leader as Space Marines. They certainly don't get the steady stream of updates. Their similarities are visually there, but Stormcast don't have the broad variances of Space Marine chapters. They're dead heroes reforged into magic armor that travel by lightning bolt.

Meanwhile, Cities of Sigmar have a very diverse spread, though a lot of old models. Elves seem to be well loved, and the dwarves are the current top of the power level I think.

But what they've done to lore with the death of gods and the rebirth of new or different ones and tying that all with new technology and space travel and stuff is just too much.

As much as Warcraft has gone beyond the traditional 'high fantasy' tropes and delved into cosmic and space stuff, it still does so as a part of the fantasy universe. What Age of Sigmar does seems a lot more like trying to retrofit the best attributes of 40k in a Fantasy setting. I find it really odd, considering 40k itself had roots in fantasy (Orcs in space, Elves in space, Space undead etc) and Age of Sigmar has come full circle.

It's perfectly fine that folks prefer something else, obviously. But, a lot of the hate I see for Age of Sigmar is because it's not Warhammer Fantasy. As a person that didn't follow Warhammer Fantasy though, what I see is pretty goofy and not something that I really care about. Slight variations of earth nations doesn't really drive me that much.

I'm not invested much into Age of Sigmar, so I'm not really defending the writing/ setting by any means. It's a high fantasy setting set among various elemental planes though, and labeling that as "just like sci-fi" doesn't fit for me.

[Ilookfly]

I love Warcraft, read or listened to all the books etc. But even I must admit that Warhammer has a much bigger, richer and expansive lore. Its not really even up for discussion. Warhammer is much older and more developed. The characters stories and universe as a whole is so much bigger that I dont really consider them in the same league. A big factor that we even have the Warcraft universe is cus of Metzens love for Warhammer amongst other things.

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Yeah, but the cringe of Chaos and the Druchii keep me from ever being able to take Warhammer very seriously. Same for WH40k. It's even more into the cringe grimdark stuff. The villains aren't compelling at all, for the most part. For me at least. One-note villains who are just out to torture, destroy, and wear dark eyeliner aren't interesting.

I like some aspects of both Warhammer (Lizardmen) and Warhammer 40k (Tau), but for the most part it's really just pulp fantasy like Conan was before. Which has its place, though.

Imagine summing up an ip as big as warhammer with hundreds upon hundreds of books like that. The blatant lack of information or knowledge about the subject is next level cringe.

Warhammer has characters that are so fleshed out that they make Warcrafts main characters look like a random npc mob that you kill on your way to Stormwind.

[elmoe420]

End Times/Age of Sigmar is the single most ridiculous thing I've witnessed since Fonzie put on those water-skiis and literally jumped a shark. What an absolute travesty.

OT: Warhammer has decades of lore development through novels and WFRP source books that Warcraft just can't hope to match. The latter's storylines being advanced almost exclusively by the needs of WoW as a game makes it really not a fair comparison.