everyone should type out their definition of casual before they make their post. that would solve like 95% of the back and forth
everyone should type out their definition of casual before they make their post. that would solve like 95% of the back and forth
fucking get in some normal nathria raids and upgrade your shit. stop being bad. if you're ilvl 190+ you shouldnt have a problem putting a normal group together, or even getting invited to a pug run. or just buy a run(with gold, of course ;D) and gear up that way.
you can upgrades mythic 0 items, it's just more efficient to do m+ as you get higher base items.
This system is just a gearing path for those who's end game content (or highest content) is mythic + dungeons.
Raid stream, Dungeon stream, PVP stream
Without any requirements e.g. achievements, you can get base mythic gear up to ilvl 200 so matching unranked PVP
You can't (or rather shouldn't) put more time into a Torghast run, or into any individual world quest.
But you can put more time into Torghast as an activity, by doing multiple runs. And more time into WQs as an activity, by doing more WQs.
Keep in mind the context of the thread: We're talking about valor points - the idea is you would be able to get Valor and use it to buy/improve gear to a level at least closer to high-end gear.
It's not that after spending X minutes doing Torghast or WQs you'd get a mythic raid level drop. It's just that each Torghast run, each WQ, each raid boss kill, each calling, each M+, every first daily heroic dungeon - basically any PvE max level activity, would drop a certain amount of Valor appropriate to the difficulty and duration of the content, and you'd be able to not only upgrade but also buy gear with it.
Last edited by Kolvarg; 2021-03-15 at 11:25 AM.
So then do you think that you should get Valor for running around Oribos? Five valor per lap seems fair. Because running circles around Oribos is literally the exact same amount of effort as Torghast and world quests, so if those two activities give valor than everything else in the agme should as well.
I don't really do world quests unless absolutely forced, I did some on my alt Rogue at 200 ilvl and literally killed every single mob in less than 3 seconds. Why in the world should that reward anything at all? It's entirely brainless and requires virtually no effort.
If they're going to start giving people gear/valor for doing nothing then they should just go the mobile game route and give people gear for every X days they log in. Logged in 7 days in a row? Here's a 220 weapon. Why not? That's literally the equivalent of world quests and torghast.
Not really, it shouldn't. Not because it's "brainless" or "effortless", but for the same reason that killing a raid boss while wearing no gear does not give you any additional or improved loot, despite being much more difficult: it's not a supported endgame activity.
Because effort and difficulty is subjective. What is a brainless task that requires no effort to you might be the hardest thing some players are willing to involve themselves in. Equally, what you consider challenging might be considered by some players better than you to be incredibly easy and brainless.
Because the point is not to get gear to players, but to make content all PvE content rewarding, allowing people to play what they like most and get rewarded by slowly improving their characters as they devote time to playing them.
It really isn't such a complex concept if you're willing to look past that "noobs getting loot" mindset.
Torghast and world quests also aren't "endgame activities", they're just chores you do when you're unable to participate in the actual endgame activities.
And there's a 0% chance anyone considers world quests to not be brainless. I'm not some god tier Rogue, but it literally takes 4 button clicks to kill a mob (Shadowstrike -> Eviscerate -> Marked for Death -> Eviscerate), there's no player in the game that can possibly find that difficult. If someone can't click 4 buttons they couldn't have made it to level 60 in the first place, they probably couldn't even turn their computer on.
All PvE content is currently rewarding. You can get 200 ilvl from just doing world quests and nothing else. How is that not good enough? I genuinely don't understand what purpose gear serves for people only doing world quests/torghast, it is 100% irrelevant and is very obviously not their concern. If someone really cares about gear they'll go do activities that give them gear.
Everything in the game can be seen as "just chores". They are "endgame activities", plain and simple, regardless of what you think about them.
Even if they were just chores, then why not improve them and make them endgame activities worty of anyone's time? Difficulty and mechanical challenge has never been the main focus of MMORPGs, so why should it be so limiting when it comes to progression paths?
Ok, let's go to extreme examples then. Let's say that is true. Are you aware that there are people with physical disabilities that play WoW, for whom clicking 4 buttons might not be as straightforward as it is for you? How is the game any worse if they are able to, eventually, improve their gear ilvl to, let's say, Heroic Raid level?
It's rewarding, until it isn't. It's not a matter of the end result being good enough or not, it's a matter of very quickly no longer providing any meaningful power upgrades when compared to other activities.
As I've said plenty of times in this thread before, gear is nice even if you don't need it. Just like you don't need Mythic raiding gear to clear Mythic raids, but they sure make it a lot more worth it and farming Mythic raids a lot more pleasant and satisfying.
You constantly go on an on about people being obsessed with getting "gear they don't need", when you're doing exactly the same just in reverse, obsessing about what gears others are able to get. If you don't understand it, then try to ask questions that will clarify. You not understanding what other people feel/want is not a good basis for an argument.
Can be implemented in different ways. During WotLK and afaik Cata you couldn't, in MoP you could, if I'm not mistaken.
Of course there should always be a stopping point, we do want new content eventually
Last edited by Kolvarg; 2021-03-15 at 07:29 PM.
Why stop at heroic raid level gear? Let's give everyone 233 gear. It certainly won't make the game any worse, because giving out heroic gear for free doesn't and it's just the same argument there. Why invalidate only 2 raid tiers, when you can do it to all 4? There are people with disabilities or people who just aren't that good at the game, and it would be, like, REALLY unfair for them not to have the best gear in the game. People who enjoy mythic raiding can still raid mythic - their experience won't be worse just because other people get the same gear for free. They're doing it for the challenge, after all.
No offense to people with disabilities, but you get my point
I don't get it, Blizzard doesn't give good rewards for Torghast and world quests specifically because they're just chores and not real content, yet you're here arguing that they're "endgame activities". Literally makes no sense.
And anyone that's disabled to the point where they can't click 4 buttons isn't ever getting level 60 anyway so it hardly matters.
Using that same logic though mythic raiding and PvP is rewarding... until it isn't. I have two characters at 227 ilvl, they will never get higher than that until 9.1. Should I be on the forums bitching that I can't get better gear and I'm done upgrading items? No, of course not, that would be stupid. I hit my cap because I don't raid mythic so I'll never get 233 gear (aside from weapons), just like people who only do world quests hit their cap at 200 ilvl. If I want to get to 229 or 230 I need to do the last two bosses on mythic, if people want to get to 205 or higher they need to do m+ or raid or arenas. It's not a difficult concept.
Is it so hard to understand that grinding Valor over the course of an entire patch is incredibly slower and less time-efficient than just actually doing high end M+ of raiding? No one would be getting "the same gear for free". You're so in love with your idea of your own eliteness of doing difficult content and therefore being better than the regular plebs that you can't even process a simple idea and have a normal conversation.
Funny how you switch between defending that Torghast/WQs are already rewarding and not giving good rewards as it fits whatever you're saying at the moment.
They are activities you can only do at max level, therefore they are endgame activities. That's all
You'd be surprised.
Of course. The difference is someone doing Mythic raiding PvP has had gear upgrades for months, and has only recently started to get close to no upgrades left. Most people probably can still upgrade a slot or two.
Meanwhile Torghast never had meaningful rewards to begin with, and WQs have been close to obsolete for some 2+ months already.
It's not a concept at all, it's just a fact at the moment. I'm not contesting that's what is happening at the moment, what kind of a bullshit argument is that? All I'm saying is it doesn't need to be like that, even arguably it shouldn't be like that. And that in the past it definitely wasn't like that, and it worked quite fine apart from a small minority crying that their leet gear wasn't special enough.
Last edited by Kolvarg; 2021-03-16 at 09:48 AM.
If you're not doing heroic+ raiding or mythic+ dungeons, Blizzard hasn't been interested in giving you a solid and enjoyable endgame since the end of MoP. At best, you're going to get content that gets exhausted in a few weeks. People acting like it's always been this way are weird. Until the last patch of MoP, you pretty much had a long-standing gearing path and pretty obtainable objectives, even as a turbo casual. Right now, almost all content is virtually worthless after a couple of weeks unless you do mythic+ or heroic raiding and up. I don't see how people are okay with this. Heroic dungeons are basically immediately worthless. Mythic 0 is basically ALMOST immediately worthless. WQs are almost immediately worthless. LFR is beyond immediately worthless. Normal dungeons are worthless. Normal raids are quickly worthless. To a casual, about the only thing with a modicum of worth is the covenant gear... And that's just boring. It drains almost all enthusiasm of running most low tier content, which in turn just drains your interest in doing most things. I don't think people like me want the world, or the best gear or whatever. We just want some sort of path to keep doing stuff in our chosen playstyle, the dopamine rush of leveling up some part of our characters. But that ship has sailed. A lot of us just need to quit, and figure out Blizzard doesn't give a shit about us anymore.
I dont really understand people limiting themselves like this.
"We are a normal guild. We only do normal raiding. Once denathrius is on farm and everyone has what they want we are out of content".
Why not just go do hc then?
When has this game ever catered to people who didnt want to raid?
Has it crossed your mind that you can, idk, try the harder content? no one started being a mythic raider, we were all memes once, but some of them actually try to step up their game and now they are hall of fame players, why stay in the easy mode? is there some imaginary gate or guardian that prevents you on tackling harder content?