Now that its been proven min maxes are the majority will content change?

[Electric Lighter]

There are, dont you know? the vast majority of wow players just log in to do some pet battles so they dont partake in absolutely any content that this data registers, or at least thats what some people believe here.

I mean the data I linked just scans the armory. Even if they only pet battle it will show what covenant they are in.

[A Chozo]

He seemed like a reasonable and pleasant fella

Yeah, if Blizzard listened to those type of players we would soon only have 4 specs - if everyone min maxes (as in, copies the icy-veins info) there's no point into designing anything else.

People here live in some weird bubble were the only thing that exists is... instanced content.

[Frozenbro]

Yeah, if Blizzard listened to those type of players we would soon only have 4 specs - if everyone min maxes (as in, copies the icy-veins info) there's no point into designing anything else.

People here live in some weird bubble were the only thing that exists is... instanced content.

Im sure the rather often balance changes are aimed towards the top world quest clearing specs /s

[Advent]

In other news, Azeroth is flat, Garrosh was an American hero, Kil'Jaeden was just hangry, Sylvannas just wants to be loved, Arthas only wanted to cuddle, and my little pony created the cosmos. See, I can make unsubstantiated, wild claims too!

[Tyris Flare]

There are, dont you know? the vast majority of wow players just log in to do some pet battles so they dont partake in absolutely any content that this data registers, or at least thats what some people believe here.

Some people do believe this, but it doesn't add up. Again, if the API has registered millions of distinct players who have run m+, raided, done arena, etc...that would mean that in order for a "Silent Majority" of pet battlers to exist, WoW would need to have like 100 million players. it obviously does not.

Basically, it's very believable that a quarter or *maybe* a third of players don't show up on this stuff because they do absolutely nothing. That's a lot of players! And Blizzard should care about them. But it is not 90% of wow players, and it's not enough to invalidate any of the conclusions drawn by the data here.

And really, as always, this is almost putting the cart before the wagon. I would argue that attaching power to Covenants doesn't benefit casual players either - it's literally a raw deal for everyone involved. They will have less identity and less customization because they aren't purely cosmetic.

A lot of people here just have a "trigger the libs" mentality where something that irritates high-end players is always "Good" even if it's bad for them, too.

[Frozenbro]

A lot of people here just have a "trigger the libs" mentality where something that irritates high-end players is always "Good" even if it's bad for them, too.

Actually true, ive legit seen people on the official wow forums being glad that covenants were coming cause they were gonna be annoying to high end players, literal spite lmao, theres 2 types of casuals for me, the self proclaimed casual that bashes on high end players all the time, which is just a trash player in my eyes, and the actual casual that doesnt care about anything at all since most changes dont drastically affect them and they just go with the flow.

[Electric Lighter]

In other news, Azeroth is flat, Garrosh was an American hero, Kil'Jaeden was just hangry, Sylvannas just wants to be loved, Arthas only wanted to cuddle, and my little pony created the cosmos. See, I can make unsubstantiated, wild claims too!

Alright does yours come with data from every active character( not player) in the game?

[Kralljin]

Actually true, ive legit seen people on the official wow forums being glad that covenants were coming cause they were gonna be annoying to high end players, literal spite lmao, theres 2 types of casuals for me, the self proclaimed casual that bashes on high end players all the time, which is just a trash player in my eyes, and the actual casual that doesnt care about anything at all since most changes dont drastically affect them and they just go with the flow.

I'd add a 3rd group, the one who uses their "casual status" as a proof of legitimacy.

"I am a casual, therefore i represent the majority, if you disagree with me, you disagree with the majority, thus you are wrong".

[Tyris Flare]

I'd add a 3rd group, the one who uses their "casual status" as a proof of legitimacy.

"I am a casual, therefore i represent the majority, if you disagree with me, you disagree with the majority, thus you are wrong".

100% and very overrepresented on these forums.

Also a lot of players used to be "good" but are now kinda washed out for whatever reason, and they've turned incredibly bitter and spiteful about the game rather than unplugging completely. They have to "not care" to shield themselves against the reality that they aren't as good as they used to be, which is pretty wild.

[Frozenbro]

100% and very overrepresented on these forums.

Also a lot of players used to be "good" but are now kinda washed out for whatever reason, and they've turned incredibly bitter and spiteful about the game rather than unplugging completely. They have to "not care" to shield themselves against the reality that they aren't as good as they used to be, which is pretty wild.

Sadly yeah, and a lot of them appeared thanks to BFA, BFA inflated the ego of a lot of players in a fake way thanks to corruption, now with corruption gone, nothing carries them now so they do subpar dps, so one could say that right now with CN being harder + no titanforging or corruption, how you play now is how you actually perform, not past BFA fake glory, some guys are actually proud of their Nyalotha parses.

I'd add a 3rd group, the one who uses their "casual status" as a proof of legitimacy.

"I am a casual, therefore i represent the majority, if you disagree with me, you disagree with the majority, thus you are wrong".

Big agree, cant believe i missed them when those guys are in this very same thread, thanks for the heads up.

[Shiekyerbooty]

Sadly yeah, and a lot of them appeared thanks to BFA, BFA inflated the ego of a lot of players in a fake way thanks to corruption, now with corruption gone, nothing carries them now so they do subpar dps, so one could say that right now with CN being harder + no titanforging or corruption, how you play now is how you actually perform, not past BFA fake glory, some guys are actually proud of their Nyalotha parses.



Big agree, cant believe i missed them when those guys are in this very same thread, thanks for the heads up.

You act like WoW is brain surgery..

A player that used to raid heroic Firelands, doesn't forget how to do interrupts... they don't forget how to do raid mechanics. Perhaps they just don't enjoy grinding mythic dungeons over and over.... when dungeons used to simply be a stepping stone or a daily quest

[Frozenbro]

You act like WoW is brain surgery..

A player that used to raid heroic Firelands, doesn't forget how to do interrupts... they don't forget how to do raid mechanics. Perhaps they just don't enjoy grinding mythic dungeons over and over.... when dungeons used to simply be a stepping stone or a daily quest

Those same players that used to be good in the past, in the case of your example heroic Firelands, dont always keep their good play, what you say is just fake since in my core some of those players were benched in recent tiers and they eventually left the guild cause they turned to be plain bad nowadays, and i dont speak out of my ass since im 10/10M for more than a month already so ive seen those players come and go over and over again, being a good player in the past =/= being a good player in the present, cause this may be shocking for you but content nowadays is harder.

[Shiekyerbooty]

Those same players that used to be good in the past, in the case of your example heroic Firelands, dont always keep their good play, what you say is just fake since in my core some of those players were benched in recent tiers and they eventually left the guild cause they turned to be plain bad nowadays, and i dont speak out of my ass since im 10/10M for more than a month already so ive seen those players come and go over and over again, being a good player in the past =/= being a good player in the present, cause this may be shocking for you but content nowadays is harder.

I hate to break it to you bro... it's not any harder, in fact that's part of the reason I personally feel resent for being funneled through this easy tedious content just for upgrades

I do mythic dungeons... not because I like them, but because the guild vault sucks, and I want more options to progress my character strength

I'd say today's M2 is equal to Wod's regular heroics that's not a stretch

Try 10 manning heroic Ragnaros, or Spine of Deathwing, better yet... defeat Mythic Siegemaster in less than 200 pulls

Today's content is not harder, it's just more tedious and repetitive... anyone can interrupt a mender or a mage add

[Frozenbro]

I hate to break it to you bro... it's not any harder, in fact that's part of the reason I personally feel resent for being funneled through this easy tedious content just for upgrades

I do mythic dungeons... not because I like them, but because the guild vault sucks, and I want more options to progress my character strength

I'd say today's M2 is equal to Wod's regular heroics that's not a stretch

Try 10 manning heroic Ragnaros, or Spine of Deathwing, better yet... defeat Mythic Siegemaster in less than 200 pulls

Today's content is not harder, it's just more tedious and repetitive... anyone can interrupt a mender or a mage add

Why even bring mythic dungeons to the argument when you used heroic Firelands as an example? XD makes no sense, and again, you arent breaking it for me, i just told you ive seen players like you come and go in my guild cause they live in their past glory, they fail the trial and they leave, wanna know why? cause they are terrible in the present, plain and simple, some of these players actually are still good nowadays and they arent just words, but you claiming that they dont exist and if you were good in the past you are always good is just completely fake and i see it in every single tier, but go on, you can keep trying to break it for me, my content is done so be my guest i guess.

Edit: Amazing that you say that content isnt harder nowadays, imagine being so delusional to downplay Mythic Stone Legion Generals, or past fights like the Mythic Avatar + Mythic KJ combo, hilarious.

[Shiekyerbooty]

Why even bring mythic dungeons to the argument when you used heroic Firelands as an example? XD makes no sense, and again, you arent breaking it for me, i just told you ive seen players like you come and go in my guild cause they live in their past glory, they fail the trail and they leave, wanna know why? cause they are terrible in the present, plain and simple, some of these players actually are still good nowadays and they arent just words, but you claiming that they dont exist and if you were good in the past you are always good is just completely fake and i see it in every single tier, but go on, you can keep trying to break it for me, my content is done so be my guest i guess.

Edit: Amazing that you say that content isnt harder nowadays, imagine being so delusional to downplay Mythic Stone Legion Generals, or past fights like the Mythic Avatar + Mythic KJ combo, hilarious.

You are totally hardcore bro... you are rocking it... you are a far superior player than I am, I will sit back and be content in my stagnation

[bowchikabow]

Precisely. Is NF my best choice from a min-max perspective as a balance druid? Yes. Is it also the most obvious choice thematically? Also yes. Same for Pallies and Kyrian, etc.

This might shock the OP and others, but Blizzard seems to have worked to make the obvious thematic choice for a class also very good choices for character power for those same classes.

Then explain what is thematically appropriate for my hunter having ridiculous faerie wings instead of the absolute brutal (and amazing) Venthyr mail set. Whole classes and specs got jipped by a large amount of the day to day things that matter for them as individuals because the raw numbers of one covenant are that much a difference. Before 9.1 drops I am going venthyr and taking the hit.. I raid for a total of 6hrs per week.. and I am done worrying about 13% delta of top performance keeping me from enjoying the other 40 to 50hrs a week I am NOT raiding.

[Doffen]

Yes, I so enjoy being a night fae Warlock ...........

Then change.

[Shyning]

With covenants we finally found a way to put to the old argument to rest. Min maxing is what matters to the vast majority of players. Most specs have upwards of 90% of the active player base picking the covenant that offers them the best performance. (There are some exceptions like havoc but that specs dead and its abysmal numbers seem to point towards min maxing rather then against.)

Now that the old argument has been put to rest do you think in the future we will see blizzard moving away from meaningless systems like covenants and relics now that it has been shown players only care about what gives the best performance barring a tiny minority?

Go check io and filter it by demon hunters. Some of the top in the world are fucking around with completely sub optimal covenants. 100% min maxing doesn’t exist outside of world first race and you aren’t involved in that and neither am I so just play the game

Thanks for ur time

[Swnem]

I think the backlash will teach them not to tie cosmetics and fantasy to power choices.
But, i don't see them stopping the dumb borrowed power stuff.

I just want them to focus on classes and class progression. It's one of the few things Legion did right.

[Doffen]

I mean I think they were using the numbers taken from the armory that includes everything.

Yeah but that's a really inconvenient fact for some people

Ignoring what fact?

As of now wowranks.io got:

Total: 6,992,964 characters. Which is a third of the whole base.

Besides all that, if you check the covenant:
Kyrian got 1.9mill. Paladins are 600k of that. Monks 300k.

Necrolord: 1.1mill
Necrolords got 327k, Shamans 300k, priests and warlocks are 220k together. Warlocks and to some extent Shadow Priests as an example fits themeattically.

Night Fae. 2.5mill. Half of that are druids and hunters. Then mage with 400k which does not really have a strong themeatic presence in Shadowlands.

Venthyr: 1.5mill. Now we get to the Covenant that doesn't have a strong theme towards anyone, except priests(which is funny maybe because of vampires, but Venthyr is a mix of that and priests in many ways) which do got 270k of those 1.5mill, almost 1/5, then we got Warriors with 307k and from I have seen, Condemn isn't only good, it's also a fun ability.

Looking at all that, is it really outside the expectations when it comes to themes and power? Sure, many DO pick the best. But when I read those numbers many of them looks really natural when it comes to themes and choices. And look, I am not arguing that people DO pick whats best. But there is still the choice for most of the player base.