PvP gearing without doing Rated Arena/RBG = trash gear?

[Trend]

lucky enough to do rated PvP

How exactly is luck involved?

[Tadkins]

How exactly is luck involved?

Having the right people willing to play with you.

[Trend]

Having the right people willing to play with you.

That's not luck. That's putting in the effort to find groups. You think some people go to queue rated PvP and ready-made friends magically fall from the sky? You've been on this forum for eleven years, you should know how an MMO works.

[Tadkins]

That's not luck. That's putting in the effort to find groups. You think some people go to queue rated PvP and ready-made friends magically fall from the sky? You've been on this forum for eleven years, you should know how an MMO works.

It is luck, when other folks seem to be able to get into stable groups where my attempts always fall apart.

[Rucati]

Having the right people willing to play with you.

I went from 0cr to 2100cr on my Holy Paladin this season entirely through LFG with different random players. Got to 1400 pretty fast, joined a group that was pushing 1600 and played with them til about 1700, then joined a group to push towards 1800. Got kind of lucky and found a really good Ret/War to push 2k with, then ran Fire/War with two other random players to get 2100. It took maybe 3 weeks of queueing, and yeah sometimes the games were trash and we only played 2 games and it fell apart, but other sessions went for hours and we gained a lot of rating. And yeah I ended up grouping back up with friends to get Gladiator, but I think if I had kept queueing LFG I'd have gotten 2400 eventually, I just kind of got bored of waiting around for high rated groups in LFG. But if your only goal is 1800 there's a ton of groups for people in that range and below.

So I really don't get the excuse of you don't have the right people to play with. You just find people to play with, there's a tool in the game designed to do just that and it works fairly well. I highly recommend trying it out and seeing how it goes.

[LedZeppelin]

you want gear but dont wanna play the game? lmao

[Tadkins]

So I really don't get the excuse of you don't have the right people to play with. You just find people to play with, there's a tool in the game designed to do just that and it works fairly well. I highly recommend trying it out and seeing how it goes.

It is hard to find people to play with when you're trying to find a good, non-toxic, stable partnership to learn arenas together with. I'm not that great of a player and I don't play a meta class. People don't stick around when you can't promise them an easy 1800 or whatever.

[Trend]

It is luck, when other folks seem to be able to get into stable groups where my attempts always fall apart.

I think you're just lazy and it's easier to pretend that other people have some advantage than it is to admit you just have not put in effort. And then it's a self fulfilling prophecy because instead of taking the bull by the horns and forming your own groups you spend your time crying about it and nobody wants to be around that.

[potis]

It is luck, when other folks seem to be able to get into stable groups where my attempts always fall apart.

Or you guys can accept that this is a game thats supposed to be played with 5-10 others and not solo.

And it can become solo when you have something to show for it that separates you from the masses, you people simply dont get it, that WoW even when on its "dying" period still hits insane amount of players online at the same time.

What do you have to show for the RBG to pick you over someone else? Rating? No, some sort of other , gear? No.

Instead, refuse to do the other PvP content and complain about it instead, because somehow YOU in particular have to get invited into someone elses group.

This is the same argument with raider.io, it was literally made for the 500-1000 people pushing the irrelevant difficulty keys just for fun progression like +25s, and every little billy is using it because he doesnt understand who it is for, and the only thing that is happening, is the 99% hate each other, while the 1% keeps doing their thing.

PvP aint any different, you never put in the effort or stuck around with people, and you complain no one will accept you.

[Rucati]

It is hard to find people to play with when you're trying to find a good, non-toxic, stable partnership to learn arenas together with. I'm not that great of a player and I don't play a meta class. People don't stick around when you can't promise them an easy 1800 or whatever.

I mean I started queueing when I was like 170 ilvl, I definitely couldn't promise people anything either, but the games still went fine. Most people are actually pretty chill, it's fairly rare you come across someone toxic. Most people will just leave if they get angry, and if they do you just queue up again, not a huge deal honestly.

And I don't know which class you play, but unless you're a MW Monk basically every class is solid right now in arenas. If you do play MW Monk then... yeah I mean good luck lol.

[Tadkins]

Or you guys can accept that this is a game thats supposed to be played with 5-10 others and not solo.

And it can become solo when you have something to show for it that separates you from the masses, you people simply dont get it, that WoW even when on its "dying" period still hits insane amount of players online at the same time.

What do you have to show for the RBG to pick you over someone else? Rating? No, some sort of other , gear? No.

Instead, refuse to do the other PvP content and complain about it instead, because somehow YOU in particular have to get invited into someone elses group.

This is the same argument with raider.io, it was literally made for the 500-1000 people pushing the irrelevant difficulty keys just for fun progression like +25s, and every little billy is using it because he doesnt understand who it is for, and the only thing that is happening, is the 99% hate each other, while the 1% keeps doing their thing.

PvP aint any different, you never put in the effort or stuck around with people, and you complain no one will accept you.

Except I'm not trying to jump into a +15 or a 2400 rated group or whatnot. I'm trying to start at the bottom, with a group full of fellow learning players, and learn together. All I'm trying to do is find a non-raging, non-toxic learning group to learn with.

[potis]

Except I'm not trying to jump into a +15 or a 2400 rated group or whatnot. I'm trying to start at the bottom, with a group full of fellow learning players, and learn together. All I'm trying to do is find a non-raging, non-toxic learning group to learn with.

Yes, and there is no such thing, never was.

There might be a few magical groups out there, but they are probably long established, my point stands, if you never dedicate yourself to a few people and tolerate some problems, you will simply end up in the endless cycle of what you are experiencing.

Its the same reasoning why some better players despite not being part of a guild, rush leveling and things at the start of an expansion, they know what happens if they dont, no one wants to play with second week levelers, they can clear all 8 mythic dungeons the first day in a few hours with 150 ilvl, or wipe with 170 after 50 heroic dungeons because they didnt do what they knew they should have done.

You have to do some sacrifices to get the result you want, it was always like this, will always be like this, personally i sacrifice like 20 hours/month to keep my guild running by always raiding, despite knowing its pointless during the end of the patch, no one really wants to be there 1 month before the next patch is releasing because we have been farming it for 4-5 months already, but they know if we stop, we might never restart.

Thats why, alt runs, glory runs, sometimes a Mythic boss or two (rarely), just to not let our little community/guild die, until we reach the end of the expansion and call it a day for a few months because we all know we are coming back in the launch of the expansion either way.

[Echocho]

Blizzard is sending a very clear message to their casual playerbase, if you don't do premade group content you're not welcome in their game.

I wonder how they will feel about that message when they realize that the casual playerbase make up the bulk of the subscribers and they are now quitting your game because you're catering to the vocal elitist minority.

[Dristereau]

Even if you get full conquest gear, you are so far behind due to upgrades that you'll get stomped. Gear feels like everything to me, having done Arena and Rated Battlegrounds and seeing the difference myself it's crazy. 200 ilvl is practically nothing compared to 213/226.

You need Rating to be able to gear well due to upgrades. Even the best players would flop from the gear difference.

[Tadkins]

I mean I started queueing when I was like 170 ilvl, I definitely couldn't promise people anything either, but the games still went fine. Most people are actually pretty chill, it's fairly rare you come across someone toxic. Most people will just leave if they get angry, and if they do you just queue up again, not a huge deal honestly.

And I don't know which class you play, but unless you're a MW Monk basically every class is solid right now in arenas. If you do play MW Monk then... yeah I mean good luck lol.

My main is a frost mage, but if I come back I'm giving serious thought to either being a shadow priest or a demo warlock.

if you never dedicate yourself to a few people and tolerate some problems, you will simply end up in the endless cycle of what you are experiencing.

That is precisely what I'm trying to do, find myself into a regular group or guild to run and learn together with. I try my best, and I wish I were more socially adept, but it always falls apart for one reason or another.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard is sending a very clear message to their casual playerbase, if you don't do premade group content you're not welcome in their game.

I wonder how they will feel about that message when they realize that the casual playerbase make up the bulk of the subscribers and they are now quitting your game because you're catering to the vocal elitist minority.

This is basically what I'm feeling like right now. I'm not subbed, but it's clear that they don't really want my sub anyway.

[Luxeley]

The pvp gearing system is trash, but not for the reasons you state. I do agree upgrading to 197 then 200 is very stupid, 3 i-lvls is ridiculous and meaningless. Conquest gear should start somewhere in the ballpark of 204-206 then scale from there.

RBGs aren't much different from BGs and since you enjoy BGs I'd imagine you'd enjoy RBGs if you gave them a fair shot. Depending on the class/ spec you play, if you start on the bottom rung and work your way up ladder, groups below 1400, you should be able to find a group. Melee are a preferred choice, but they are a dime a dozen, in other words the demand is there but so is the endless supply. If you play a ranged dps, particularly a Boomkin or Fire Mage you should be able to find a group with a little bit of persistence and patience. If you're a healer you're in demand especially if you're Disc Priest/ Holy Paly or even Resto Shaman then you write your own tkt.

Here's the big issue with gearing for pvp. Right now, 10 i-lvls makes a big difference and if you're punching up in your weight class, you're at a significant disadvantage. In other words, if you're knocking on the door of 1400, 1600, 1800 you're facing players 10-15 i-lvls higher than you more than 75% of the time. Not only that, there are a lot of carry groups out there with one or two players who broke through 2200 and they are truly GODS among men and boys with 225 i-lvl gear. Plus there are a lot of geared pve heroes doing RBGs and Arena with little or no Versat with gear around 213 or higher. Versat is "HIGHLY" overrated in RBGs because players assume very good healers will compensate for the lack of defenses and depending on your class/ spec mastery may act like a primary stat so the dmg is significantly better. Basically, to be competitive in pvp, you need to either raid on a heroic lvl or do M+ north of 10.

[Trend]

Blizzard is sending a very clear message to their casual playerbase, if you don't do premade group content you're not welcome in their game.

I wonder how they will feel about that message when they realize that the casual playerbase make up the bulk of the subscribers and they are now quitting your game because you're catering to the vocal elitist minority.

You're using the term casual incorrectly. There are many casual players who still play an MMO as an MMO and not as a single player game. The people who you're talking about who want a single player game are always going to be unhappy with WoW and are the most likely to stop playing a few months into each expansion.

There is no evidence this expansion cycle is any different. There is no evidence that turning WoW into a single player game would increase its popularity.

Personally, I think it is unlikely that the people crying would ever be happy with this game. There is so much for players to do who are casual and don't ever want to talk to other human beings in the game.

- - - Updated - - -

if you're knocking on the door of 1400, 1600, 1800 you're facing players 10-15 i-lvls higher than you more than 75% of the time

It's 6-7 ilvl, not 10-15. And normally if you're at the breakpoint both teams are a mix with some people partially/fully upgraded and some not. Each gear breakpoint is a hump but it's not as bad as you're saying.

[Luxeley]

It's 6-7 ilvl, not 10-15. And normally if you're at the breakpoint both teams are a mix with some people partially/fully upgraded and some not. Each gear breakpoint is a hump but it's not as bad as you're saying.

I disagree. Maybe right now the difference is 5 i-lvls, but my frame of reference is 1-2 months ago and the difference was definitely 10 i-lvls. Its exceptionally hard in 2s and RBGs if you don't play a certain class/spec. I've had more trouble reaching 1600 Shadowlands than I did reaching 2k in Cata, Mop or WOD. Didn't Rbg much in Legion or BFA, the opportunities to find a group weren't plentiful in Legion and I despised pvp in BFA. The cold hard fact is there wouldn't be so many carry groups out there if the hump wasn't really a mountain.

Perhaps "hard" isn't the right word, a better encapsulation would be that it's pathetically and unacceptably time-consuming. I do admit, it's possible I made the mistake of not gearing up through M+ Everyone said Pvp is the best way to gear and that proved to be untrue. A M+ 7 gives you 213 gear in the vault and one notch higher gives you 216 gear. If I did a combo of both, I'd gear faster than if I simply did competitive pvp and probably get more Opts as well with extra gear.

[Argorwal]

Blizzard is sending a very clear message to their casual playerbase, if you don't do premade group content you're not welcome in their game.

I wonder how they will feel about that message when they realize that the casual playerbase make up the bulk of the subscribers and they are now quitting your game because you're catering to the vocal elitist minority.

Well, they followed that path of from vanilla-Wrath 3.3 and created the most successful MMO of all time.

Not really correlation = causation, but after 3.3 subs hit a plateau and started to decrease.

[Tadkins]

Well, they followed that path of from vanilla-Wrath 3.3 and created the most successful MMO of all time.

Not really correlation = causation, but after 3.3 subs hit a plateau and started to decrease.

BC and Wrath had resilience gear. And late Vanilla also had good grindable honor gear.

Clearly that's what we need to have return.