1.5K Rio 224 ilvl and cant get in +15s... Guess which class ?

[odamienskii]

I think Warlocks are fine in M+. I dont understand these meta hungering idiots.
For example; i play a LazorChickin, very poorly, my good Friend Plays a warrior, good, hè does more dmg then me, all the time, litterly all the time. Hè cannot get into Keys around 15, i can. No problemo. Why, people think we all MDI players, were not.

Note: we bot have KSM and Curver and 3mythic kills, so boring special.

I can tell you what the issue is with the meta hungering idiots is

they collected all there weekly vaults 226
they played all the easy weeks
they had the content nerfed

these 3 things arent enough, they need meta comp too.

The worst thing about these meta comps is ppl get it from mdi, ppl dont know even a quarter of why mdi run that comp they just think its dps, thats the worst thing about it. amount of keys i got declined for last week due to "low ilvl" when i was healing 15s back in december!!! before the tyranical nerf when everyone was 200-205 ilvl.

game is FULL of idiots fully oblivious to how clueless they.

[neescher]

I can tell you what the issue is with the meta hungering idiots is

they collected all there weekly vaults 226
they played all the easy weeks
they had the content nerfed

1) Literally everything you just said applies to non-meta classes as well

amount of keys i got declined for last week due to "low ilvl" when i was healing 15s back in december!!! before the tyranical nerf when everyone was 200-205 ilvl.

game is FULL of idiots fully oblivious to how clueless they.

2) The issue is not that your ilvl is too low, the issue is that 10 other people apply with a higher ilvl/score. Why do you people not understand that? It doesn't matter if it's a +2 or +15. It doesn't matter if your ilvl is 190 or 220. It doesn't matter if your score is 700 or 1400. If someone higher applies, they get the spot, no matter *how* qualified you are.

[ellieg]

1) Literally everything you just said applies to non-meta classes as well





2) The issue is not that your ilvl is too low, the issue is that 10 other people apply with a higher ilvl/score. Why do you people not understand that? It doesn't matter if it's a +2 or +15. It doesn't matter if your ilvl is 190 or 220. It doesn't matter if your score is 700 or 1400. If someone higher applies, they get the spot, no matter *how* qualified you are.

Exactly. When I post a 15 key, I will get enough ppl queuing within 5 minutes to form a group with all meta classes at 1500 average rio. Idc that demo locks at 1250 and 210 ilvl are capable of clearing it. I have the moonkin at 220 ilvl and 1700 rio. Not only is his dps good but he has more utility and burst.

I'm a frost dk. No one is jumping to get me in their groups even though I'm perfectly capable of clearing the content. So I can either misunderstand the situation and cry on the forums, or I can run my own keys.

[Ange]

1) Literally everything you just said applies to non-meta classes as well

Playing a meta class means usually you get more invites and much more invites in easy push weeks, that inflates the personal rating a lot, since this players are getting into groups that are able to 4/5 a key in time.

What you see in your queue is many times a non-meta class, maybe the server 10. ret paladin, competing against the same R.IO server 999. mage.

And if you take a closer look at the R.IO statistics, the non-meta players have to time their keys with what ever group they get invited to, with affix weeks that are clearly not push-weeks and in the end they get thrown into the same queue R.IO page as the rando FOTM player.

non meta players
* usually know mechanics much better and fail less
* know their toolkit with different non-ideal group compositions with each affix
* are used to non-standard (META) pulls/routes and got more flexibility and can addapt much faster to a new route
* are used to pull their own weight in a group, because there is no other way for them to progress

In my experience you get much less toxic players in your group, if you keep yourself at distance to the meta compositions. I don't claim that all meta players are toxic, but in my experience there is a clear correlation between toxic players and meta classes.

[neescher]

non meta players
* usually know mechanics much better and fail less
* know their toolkit with different non-ideal group compositions with each affix
* are used to non-standard (META) pulls/routes and got more flexibility and can addapt much faster to a new route
* are used to pull their own weight in a group, because there is no other way for them to progress

Do you have any sort of proof for that? Because in my personal experience that's just not true. I'm someone who invites non-meta classes all the time, and there are just as many idiots / bad players / toxic players that play non-meta classes as there are with meta classes. No idea where your data comes from, but to me it just sounds like it's made up.

[ellieg]

Playing a meta class means usually you get more invites and much more invites in easy push weeks, that inflates the personal rating a lot, since this players are getting into groups that are able to 4/5 a key in time.

What you see in your queue is many times a non-meta class, maybe the server 10. ret paladin, competing against the same R.IO server 999. mage.

And if you take a closer look at the R.IO statistics, the non-meta players have to time their keys with what ever group they get invited to, with affix weeks that are clearly not push-weeks and in the end they get thrown into the same queue R.IO page as the rando FOTM player.

non meta players
* usually know mechanics much better and fail less
* know their toolkit with different non-ideal group compositions with each affix
* are used to non-standard (META) pulls/routes and got more flexibility and can addapt much faster to a new route
* are used to pull their own weight in a group, because there is no other way for them to progress

In my experience you get much less toxic players in your group, if you keep yourself at distance to the meta compositions. I don't claim that all meta players are toxic, but in my experience there is a clear correlation between toxic players and meta classes.

You think its groups of all metas, and groups of non meta. But its more like non meta making his own group and only inviting meta. Its not hpal, dh tank, fire mage, moonkin, rogue vs mistweaver, prot war, feral druid, surv hunter, demo lock. It's the demo lock getting mad at not getting invited so he creates his own group and invites to of top 3 healers/tanks, a mage, and a rogue

[Ange]

Do you have any sort of proof for that? Because in my personal experience that's just not true. I'm someone who invites non-meta classes all the time, and there are just as many idiots / bad players / toxic players that play non-meta classes as there are with meta classes. No idea where your data comes from, but to me it just sounds like it's made up.

It's from my own experience 5000 keys in LEGION, 4000 keys in BFA, all on one char linked under my posting. PUGing is fun if you know how to avoid the toxic seasonal gamers who dont know what to do in MMOs and just WIN THE GAME in a few weeks.

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But its more like non meta making his own group and only inviting meta.

It's a choice every player makes for themselfs. If they choose to push the meta, against their own class choice, so be it.

[ellieg]

It's from my own experience 5000 keys in LEGION, 4000 keys in BFA, all on one char linked under my posting. PUGing is fun if you know how to avoid the toxic seasonal gamers who dont know what to do in MMOs and just WIN THE GAME in a few weeks.

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It's a choice every player makes for themselfs. If they choose to push the meta, against their own class choice, so be it.

I mean. I do the same. Im a 1350 frost dk who has no desire to keep climbing rio. Im gonna run my key, invite a mage and boom, dh tank of available, and pal sham druid healer. Im ok if mage ends up being not fire, but I have no desire to invite off meta classes

[kiramon]

What do you expect? This guy's argument is "I have seen bad fire mages, so all fire mages are meta slaves and suck, they're only good in MDI". Clearly this guy has never pugged with a fire mage with >800 rio score.

I mean, when the answer to the statement "I have never had a timer fail if there was no wipe" (a 100% subjective statement) is "YOU'RE WRONG", what do you expect from someone like that?

That's not the argument at all. The first step to having a conversation is understanding the argument someone is making.


Anyways, aside from that, the whole point isn't that fire mages suck. It's that most do. And since most fire mages are indeed under 800 RIO, that wouldn't be wrong to say. And no, not all fire mages are meta slaves. Just a lot of them are. Look at the number of WW you saw pre-fixes/post-fixes. Don't deny the obvious because you shoot fireballz Or leech as a frost DK (I'm just kidding. But it is funny you wont invite offmeta classes as an offmeta class lol)

If you count up the number of shit melee has to avoid compared to number of shit ranged has to avoid, you'd realize why melee gets hit more.

Take that pull right before the gauntlet in SD. You got the mist dancer, gargoyle, and grand overseer. Depending on how good the tank is, you have the thrusts from the dancer littering the place. Then you have to dodge the swirlies on the ground from gargoyle. But don't accidentally run past them, into the 1 safe spot around all the thrusts, because thats where the tank positioned the gargoyle and now you've been cleaved with the severing sweep or whatever it is, and are now ticking for 30% of your hp. On top of that you have to run away from the chains from the overseer. All while trying to do damage, while your character is doing a bunch of flashy shit and all the bright spell effects from the ranged are blowing up on the mobs.

Meanwhile what do I have to worry about in that pull as a ranged? Sidestepping 3 yards every 15 sec to avoid the swirlies from the gargoyle. All because I outrange everything else.

Don't even get me started on affixes.

No, I don't think all melee suck. And I agree; the game is overly punishing toward melee, resulting in the ranged preference we see for group slots.

[chiddie]

That's not the argument at all. The first step to having a conversation is understanding the argument someone is making.


Anyways, aside from that, the whole point isn't that fire mages suck. It's that most do. And since most fire mages are indeed under 800 RIO, that wouldn't be wrong to say. And no, not all fire mages are meta slaves. Just a lot of them are. Look at the number of WW you saw pre-fixes/post-fixes. Don't deny the obvious because you shoot fireballz Or leech as a frost DK (I'm just kidding. But it is funny you wont invite offmeta classes as an offmeta class lol)






No, I don't think all melee suck. And I agree; the game is overly punishing toward melee, resulting in the ranged preference we see for group slots.

This.

Also, even if being a pugger myself for 99% of keys I do, unfortunately I’m all in for the bandwagon “find a proper guild or friends and run with them”.

Dudes, really, the difference is HUGE. This week I decided to push PF 12 for rio and I had 7-8 runs that all failed more or less miserably. Yesterday evening by chance I managed to do a Mists 14 and a PF 13 with 4 guildies. Mists was my first 14 ever and seemed a 10, PF 13 ended with a +2 bonus and me dpsing at Stradama, I didn’t even think it was possible basing on my pug runs. Every run had 4 deaths, all of which unfortunately unavoidable (bishots or so). I finally understood that, surprise, I’m not half as bad as I thought I was, because people are supposed to do their job instead of standing in the fire waiting for me to be taken up. Apart from mistakes that will always happen sooner or later, I won’t apologize anymore for my “supposedly bad” healing.

Morale: don’t get too mad if pugged runs fail, it will be almost always the case and there’s nothing you can do about it. It’s not necessarily you that are bad, if the group is there’s nothing you can do about it.

[neescher]

This.

Also, even if being a pugger myself for 99% of keys I do, unfortunately I’m all in for the bandwagon “find a proper guild or friends and run with them”.

Dudes, really, the difference is HUGE. This week I decided to push PF 12 for rio and I had 7-8 runs that all failed more or less miserably. Yesterday evening by chance I managed to do a Mists 14 and a PF 13 with 4 guildies. Mists was my first 14 ever and seemed a 10, PF 13 ended with a +2 bonus and me dpsing at Stradama, I didn’t even think it was possible basing on my pug runs. Every run had 4 deaths, all of which unfortunately unavoidable (bishots or so). I finally understood that, surprise, I’m not half as bad as I thought I was, because people are supposed to do their job instead of standing in the fire waiting for me to be taken up. Apart from mistakes that will always happen sooner or later, I won’t apologize anymore for my “supposedly bad” healing.

Morale: don’t get too mad if pugged runs fail, it will be almost always the case and there’s nothing you can do about it. It’s not necessarily you that are bad, if the group is there’s nothing you can do about it.

Part of getting better as a healer is knowing when it's your fault that people die, and when it's their fault. To be honest, most of the time it's somewhere inbetween - it's usually their fault (or at least they could have prevented it by using cooldowns/potion), but also many times there's a way to save them after all.

When you said the deaths were unavoidable, did you mean there was nothing *you* could do as a healer? Because there are no unavoidable deaths really, unless some people were seriously undergeared and had like 25k HP.

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Anyways, aside from that, the whole point isn't that fire mages suck. It's that most do. And since most fire mages are indeed under 800 RIO, that wouldn't be wrong to say. And no, not all fire mages are meta slaves. Just a lot of them are. Look at the number of WW you saw pre-fixes/post-fixes. Don't deny the obvious because you shoot fireballz Or leech as a frost DK (I'm just kidding. But it is funny you wont invite offmeta classes as an offmeta class lol)

1) "most fire mages are under 800 RIO, so most fire mages suck" oh that's your argument? Too bad that's true for every single spec in the game. So you could just say "most players suck".

2) Where does it say I don't invite off-meta classes?

[chiddie]

Part of getting better as a healer is knowing when it's your fault that people die, and when it's their fault. To be honest, most of the time it's somewhere inbetween - it's usually their fault (or at least they could have prevented it by using cooldowns/potion), but also many times there's a way to save them after all.

When you said the deaths were unavoidable, did you mean there was nothing *you* could do as a healer? Because there are no unavoidable deaths really, unless some people were seriously undergeared and had like 25k HP.

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1) "most fire mages are under 800 RIO, so most fire mages suck" oh that's your argument? Too bad that's true for every single spec in the game. So you could just say "most players suck".

2) Where does it say I don't invite off-meta classes?

Unavoidable = you take a hit while dotted, 2/3 of life gone, mob dies, I hot you and start casting something but in the meantime you are hit by Spiteful and gg.

Or bishotted by “something” in 2-3 seconds. Or oneshotted by particular abilities (PF first boss breath for example).

Or everyone is taking tons of damage and I have to prioritize tank so at least one random dps probably will stay without healing, apart maybe a hot, for a while. This is the usual scenario in pugs.

[ellieg]

Unavoidable = you take a hit while dotted, 2/3 of life gone, mob dies, I start casting something but in the meantime you are hit by Spiteful and gg.

Or bishotted by “something” in 2-3 seconds. Or oneshotted by particular abilities (PF first boss breath for example).

All of those are avoidable by the dps tho. Ideally should be taking 0 melee hits from mobs if not the tank. And no one hit by spiteful . If you're getting hit from slow casting highly telegraphed abilities like belch slime, you fucked up hard and are bad lol

[erifwodahs]

The worst thing about these meta comps is ppl get it from mdi, ppl dont know even a quarter of why mdi run that comp they just think its dps, thats the worst thing about it. amount of keys i got declined for last week due to "low ilvl" when i was healing 15s back in december!!! before the tyranical nerf when everyone was 200-205 ilvl.

game is FULL of idiots fully oblivious to how clueless they.

if there is same class healer with better rio and better ilvl, why should anyone take you? It just not reasonable.

[chiddie]

All of those are avoidable by the dps tho. Ideally should be taking 0 melee hits from mobs if not the tank. And no one hit by spiteful . If you're getting hit from slow casting highly telegraphed abilities like belch slime, you fucked up hard and are bad lol

I know but the dude was asking what I intended with “unavoidable deaths” implying I maybe could have done something to save those deaths but it was not the case so I explained.

[neescher]

I know but the dude was asking what I intended with “unavoidable deaths” implying I maybe could have done something to save those deaths but it was not the case so I explained.

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant with "unavoidable" - ie. as a healer you couldn't have prevented them.

[czarek]

One i know. The clue of doin/joining grps is to have good tank. Thats 1st of all. Beside this is great to have tank and healer to know each other. DPS just must to know their job dispell/cs. But if there is one big dick pusher other just have to do stable DPS. stable dps in my opinion = 4+/5k~ overall.

[Mamushi]

I mean. I do the same. Im a 1350 frost dk who has no desire to keep climbing rio. Im gonna run my key, invite a mage and boom, dh tank of available, and pal sham druid healer. Im ok if mage ends up being not fire, but I have no desire to invite off meta classes

Why would you do that... I also play off-meta melee but when I gather groups I usually prefer to take other off-meta specs because I know how annoying it is to find groups right now and it's not like you really deplete any keys with decently geared people in the 14-16 range anyway no matter the group composition.

[ellieg]

Why would you do that... I also play off-meta melee but when I gather groups I usually prefer to take other off-meta specs because I know how annoying it is to find groups right now and it's not like you really deplete any keys with decently geared people in the 14-16 range anyway no matter the group composition.

I want to get the key done as quickly and successfully as possible. Fire mage has the burst to delete any hard pack. Moonkin has the utility to deal with most things.

[kiramon]

if there is same class healer with better rio and better ilvl, why should anyone take you? It just not reasonable.

Here's what it looked like less than 45 seconds after I posted my 15 key:


My first inclination might not be "look at the warlocks" IO regardless, but I mean... theres 3 pages within seconds, with no way to guess who or what is going to be best.

I think people make their own like +10 key groups or +12, where you see 1 or 2 people pop in and think that people are just actively like No way Jose.. Some of these 15 keys get swarmed...