1.5K Rio 224 ilvl and cant get in +15s... Guess which class ?

[ellieg]

That sounds like a reasonable solution where people with less experience could play with others like themselves and progress together.

But for some strange reason a lot of people on this forum think that only some players are able to make their own groups. It baffles me to no end.

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Hmmm, I have never encountered such people.
I guess such encounters only happen when the toxic, entitled, wilfully bad play together.
Thanks to raider.io I never have to play with the toxic part of the playerbase anymore.

I was in a DOS 15 2 weeks ago. Finished ardenweald area. We port back up. All 4 other classes had good speed boost class abilities. Im a dk. They zoom off ahead of me down that long hallway. They book it to final boss and pull him while I'm maybe 2/3 of the way caught up. Boss does the ticking dmg mechanic he does to you when you're not on the platform. I die to it right before making it on the platform. We miss timer. Get 4 different ppl telling me im awful at the game and should kill myself. Literally nothing I could've done lol

[Barzotti]

We should just accept that:
a) it’s a game
b) people make mistakes, even when they know what to do, because shiet may happen for whatever reason. We are not droids.

Knowing what to do and being always able to do it flawlessly are different things.

"It's just a game" is probably the most infuriating argument, always used by people who play poorly, refuse to improve and laugh at you. Just a game bro! Don't be a tryhard!

We should also accept that even though it's a game, it's a multiplayer game and it would be disrespectful to waste the time of the other group members. Also I don't have infinite time to play WoW and I don't want to play with people who don't care in the slightest. I don't expect a pug to be perfect, but I have some expectations nonetheless in terms of dungeon knowledge. There's a difference between not being perfect and being willfully ignorant. And WoW isn't a hard game mechanically.

[chiddie]

"It's just a game" is probably the most infuriating argument, always used by people who play poorly, refuse to improve and laugh at you. Just a game bro! Don't be a tryhard!

We should also accept that even though it's a game, it's a multiplayer game and it would be disrespectful to waste the time of the other group members. Also I don't have infinite time to play WoW and I don't want to play with people who don't care in the slightest. I don't expect a pug to be perfect, but I have some expectations nonetheless in terms of dungeon knowledge. There's a difference between not being perfect and being willfully ignorant.

It’s just a game just means it has not to be a second work. I should not be supposed to watch hours of videos and read tons of guides and sim pieces of gear and minmaxing even the headset volume to do stuff. That is called work, people usually have one for the most part of the day and that’s more than enough.

Of course this does not mean you have to be totally clueless but again, I want to pinpoint that knowing what to do and always being able to do it are different things.

For example, I know what to do with Stitchflesh’s hook but sometimes I miss it. I know what to do with Gorechop’s hooks but sometimes I get caught. I know that when I’m the bomb at dealer in DoS I have to jump on platform but sometimes I do it later than expected. And so on. It’s not that I do that on purpose, but sometimes happens even if I know the mechanic. Why? Because I’m not a robot.

You can’t just pretend that ppl, especially in pugs, never fail. Yesterday I ran a NW 13, we incredibly got to the Necropolis with 2/3 deaths only, then the tank mispulled a couple of packs in Necropolis, two wipes, pride wasted, gg. Was it a toxic group? Not in the slightest, mistake happened. We finished the key 2/3 minutes overtime, what a pity but ok, no drama. Ppl were nice, I would have no problems in running again with them, in case.

We should learn to tolerate mistakes a little more.

[erifwodahs]

Better players aren't less toxic. 20 years of online gaming experience is enough data for me.

Your attempt to warp reality to prove me wrong is cute though.

Good players are deffo less toxic than some medium score players.
The toxic ones are wannabes with low to medium score who think that everyone but them sucks and they are just being held down by others, either by not taking them into keys because they are not good enough or if the key fails due to some reason, quite often by the same player, but in that case it's tank/healer/route/blizzard fault and certainly not them.
look at lol, gold to late diamond is extremely trash talky. And that's a PvP game, which is the reason why LoL is such a toxic cesspool in the first place.

[Azerate]

A high i.o score means they're not toxic?

Do explain, lol. Christ this should be good.

So delusional.

This is partially true. Of course you can still get high rio assholes, but overall people who do higher level content and do it smoothly have less toxicity and much smoother runs, simply because they are all capable of it. It's the age old concept of "elo hell" back from 2010s in LoL (dunno if it's still a thing). The hardest and most toxic part of the ladder is always the lower/middle part and it's very easy to get eternally trapped there, often not due to your mistakes, but due to other people's bad performance. This breeds toxicity

[Frozenbro]

People need to have more patience when pugging, i just pugged keys for 2 days nonstop with my dh (fking phial) doing from 12-15s keys and sometimes they invite me sometimes they dont, since dh is still seen as "weak" (idk why, i swear people should see the damage dh pulls now xd), and the best is to actually perform and people thanking you for being "a dh that does good dmg", i didnt even bother linking achievs to secure the invites, so i find it hard to believe when people come here with their "its impossible to pug" stories.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

A high i.o score means they're not toxic?

Do explain, lol. Christ this should be good.

So delusional.

im only ~2350IO this season (cuz i have shitons of work to do via Home Office) but i dont have seen any ppl that have trown around death threats like that, i have seen it in HC pugs from trash HC raiders that got kicked but not in "High" Keys

[neescher]

Please learn to read and comprehend. Thank you very much.

And yes, it is. Especially in terms of getting specific items or raider.io. It even might be quite helpful to get your 14s done, because you can get pretty bad keys easily. Also if a pug depletes your key, you are now stuck with a 13, that way worse people are queueing for.

OP: "I don't get invited to groups"
Answer: "Make your own groups"
You: "Making your own groups is more inefficient"

This topic is full of people who whine that they don't get invited to groups, but are unwilling to put in some work to create their own groups

[Frozenbro]

im only ~2350IO this season (cuz i have shitons of work to do via Home Office) but i dont have seen any ppl that have trown around death threats like that, i have seen it in HC pugs from trash HC raiders that got kicked but not in "High" Keys

Anyone that actually plays high end content knows that the toxicity he/she claims is practically nonexistant, but for people like them, anyone who does high end content is an elitist cunt and therefore toxic, its kinda hilarious xd

[T-34]

Dude are you serious? No one is bad “by choice”.

Also rio is helpful but does not tell the entire story, runs fail even with parties with “proper” rio for the key level.

The only thing that can barely save you in pugs is trying to sign ppl that vastly overgear the key level, if they do apply, but this is the reason why pugging has become really difficult: content is just too hard an ppl try to bruteforce it.

I do also think that tyr weeks rise issues above issues, you see less threads like this in forti weeks.

A not insignificant part of WoW's player base is wilfully bad - players that don't do their best and don't respect the time of their fellow gamer.
There can be wilfully bad gamers among bad players as well as among better players. What is common for them is that the find it ok not to try their best and that they expect other players to compensate for their "I just play for fun, lolz"-attitude.

Wilfully bad does not equal bad at the game, although there are more wilfully bad players among the those in the lower performance bracket, simply because they don't try their best.

The wilfully bad players are prevalent among those that complain about that other people don't invite them to their group as a wilfully bad player will never ever accept that his problems in-game can be of his own fault, whereas players that care about their performance always will find a way to better themselves in-game and find it natural to solve their own in-game "problems".

[neescher]

Anyone that actually plays high end content knows that the toxicity he/she claims is practically nonexistant, but for people like them, anyone who does high end content is an elitist cunt and therefore toxic, its kinda hilarious xd

I mean we're talking about a person who claims they know everything about toxicity in high m+ pugs, but then claim they never pug m+ anyway. What do you expect? They probably only know the "pug community" from reddit and mmo-c forums, which just isn't a representative group.

[The Butt Witch]

Unwittingly denying someone their dopamine fix is serious business.

[Sanitee]

The little problem in pushing your key is that you can’t choose the key level nor the specific dungeon.

Depending on the point you are in your “pushing” you may wait ages to find a key of the level and of the dungeon you need.

Just stop assuming everyone has 3+ hours a day to dedicate to gaming, it’s not the case.

If you only need specific dungeons, that's not the same problem as "not being invited to ANY dungeons". A lot of people are only after their weekly for example, or valor. If being denied from everything is better than using your own, i really don't know what to tell you except that sometimes people don't want solutions, they just want to vent, which honestly, does seem like the case here. I also made an earlier post when i asked OP if he/she could give me one good reason why, as someone who makes his own keys on my non tanks, i should take OP over 40+ people who have higher item level and rio score than OP does. No answer.

[kiramon]

Anyone that actually plays high end content knows that the toxicity he/she claims is practically nonexistant, but for people like them, anyone who does high end content is an elitist cunt and therefore toxic, its kinda hilarious xd

I think those people don't think high end (as in, real high end) are toxic /in high end content/. They're toxic "elitists" when they go to do lower keys/"low-end content" for a weekly or to get a vault filled and somebody fails - that's when those people make toxic comments and/or snide down-talking like they're gods or something.

[Frozenbro]

I think those people don't think high end (as in, real high end) are toxic /in high end content/. They're toxic "elitists" when they go to do lower keys/"low-end content" for a weekly or to get a vault filled and somebody fails - that's when those people make toxic comments and/or snide down-talking like they're gods or something.

Those are still the minority, i saw some awful tanks in the keys i pugged, dps pulling laughable numbers like under 5k when they should be doing over 7k etc and i didnt flame them, i just finished the key, i mean i could write a list of all the mistakes they did, but that doesnt help the key, not when its basically depleted already thanks to them so xd the guys you are talking about are the ones that get carried in high end content, cause if you are confident enough in your skill, you dont need to rub it in their faces, its shown in your own gameplay, and believe it or not people are aware when they play bad without you telling them even, you sometimes even get whisp like "sorry for the fuckups" or "thanks for the carry", which is better than making the key more painful than it already is.

[Akibaboy]

Yeap, you did guess right !

Warlock !

Title says it all..

I've nothing to say. Thank you.

Hi, Warlock here. Even worse, playing Venthyr.

I've got a suggestion for you that'll solve 95% of your problems in the game, and has basically been a cure-all for these kinds of issues since 2004.
1) Make friends. It's easy to do if you're even remotely competent as other players will gravitate towards prospects that're reliable over rolling the dice on randos every time. Plus, engaging in discussion and sharing progress with others is very enjoyable.
2) Join those friends' guild. Pretty simple and straight-forward... if the people you like playing with have a guild, join it. Keep playing with them through various activities. If you have multiple, different groups of people you can rely on to do content, suggest making a Community with them. It's really easy.

I say this all as someone who generally plays as much of the game as I can solo, and who wishes there were solo, offline options for Classic WoW... but if you're going to engage in group content, why rely on random, different strangers every time?

If you don't want to build those connections, then yeah... be prepared to be a Meta-slave who is chasing fotm memes for people who want the game to be its easiest possible version by sanding down all of its rough edges via min/max.

[Barzotti]

It’s just a game just means it has not to be a second work. I should not be supposed to watch hours of videos and read tons of guides and sim pieces of gear and minmaxing even the headset volume to do stuff. That is called work, people usually have one for the most part of the day and that’s more than enough.

Of course this does not mean you have to be totally clueless but again, I want to pinpoint that knowing what to do and always being able to do it are different things.

For example, I know what to do with Stitchflesh’s hook but sometimes I miss it. I know what to do with Gorechop’s hooks but sometimes I get caught. I know that when I’m the bomb at dealer in DoS I have to jump on platform but sometimes I do it later than expected. And so on. It’s not that I do that on purpose, but sometimes happens even if I know the mechanic. Why? Because I’m not a robot.

You can’t just pretend that ppl, especially in pugs, never fail. Yesterday I ran a NW 13, we incredibly got to the Necropolis with 2/3 deaths only, then the tank mispulled a couple of packs in Necropolis, two wipes, pride wasted, gg. Was it a toxic group? Not in the slightest, mistake happened. We finished the key 2/3 minutes overtime, what a pity but ok, no drama. Ppl were nice, I would have no problems in running again with them, in case.

We should learn to tolerate mistakes a little more.

WoW isn't my second job either and I don't keep up with logs or simcraft or full optimization. That doesn't stop from being prepared (having a good grasp of the key things to know for every dungeon, not the full knowledge of the small intricacies and the perfect pulls/routes but the essential knowledge and having consumables) because this kind of preparation is neither hard nor too much time consuming.

I don't have issues with people making mistakes. We all do, myself first, especially in a pug environment with obviously limited realistic expectations. What I have more difficulties to accept is glaring and basic mistakes in a key level where it should be common knowledge (like dying on the beams on the first HoA boss). For example, I had a tank backpedaling and slowly moving backwards in HoA when tanking enraged bears in a +12 fortified setting. That was his definition of "kiting" and he got murdered multiple times. Not timing a key is fine too, but basic mistakes tend to piss me off very quickly (like triggering a Prideful during a hard pack).

[erifwodahs]

It’s just a game just means it has not to be a second work. I should not be supposed to watch hours of videos and read tons of guides and sim pieces of gear and minmaxing even the headset volume to do stuff. That is called work, people usually have one for the most part of the day and that’s more than enough.

And if that is the case - any reasonable person will understand that they won't be doing high-end game content and that they will have to compete against players who do research. No one is taking sunday football dads to play in regional games - altho both sunday league and regional league is the same game.

[Barzotti]

Anyone that actually plays high end content knows that the toxicity he/she claims is practically nonexistant, but for people like them, anyone who does high end content is an elitist cunt and therefore toxic, its kinda hilarious xd

It's even more amplified by the fact that the community of high end M+ players is fairly limited, and if you behave like an asshole people will refuse to play with you.

[Nite92]

OP: "I don't get invited to groups"
Answer: "Make your own groups"
You: "Making your own groups is more inefficient"

This topic is full of people who whine that they don't get invited to groups, but are unwilling to put in some work to create their own groups

Because making your own group comes with many disadvantages.
E.g. having a SD +13 key on a sanguine tyrannical week, while not needing a single item out of that dungeon and it does not even contribute to my goal to get x +14s done.
I am not saying you should ONLY join other groups, but having the ability to do so, helps you out tremendously.