Making flying better

[Rendark]

Why not just make the game a lobby so that those who don't want to engage in the game can just teleport directly to raids.

Players who want flying the current way clearly don't want ot engage in the gameplay part of WoW.

Why don't you RP walk everywhere if you like traveling so much?

[Sondrelk]

Hold on... You mean, like, Flight Paths? But not flight paths?
Start in location X, options to fly to Locations A, B, and C?
Am I not reading this right?
So like, instead of talking to the flight master, you just mount when you're "close enough", fly to a place, then ride your ground mount back (or take a regular Flight Path) until you are in the "happy flight zone" and can start up again?
Seems clunky.

At this point, I would just say give it away at the start once you hit max level and finish all the story in each zone (loremaster).
You've seen the game how it was designed, you've walked/ground mounted around and "did the things"; just let the people who want to zip around like the busy little bees that they are do so.
If that's so "breaking" to the game, dial back flight speed so you don't have to worry about people divebombing areas at breakneck speeds.
Hell, make early flight 60% like back in BC (the poor man's version that many of us had to deal with for a while), where you are slower than a ground mount but have the benefit of being able to go up, point, and hit autopilot.

Flying would in this case essentially be a one-off version of the flightmaster that you could use when you started questing in a zone.

The main problem with flying though isnt that it is fast, it is that you cna do it from anywhere and it allows you to bypass pretty much all the ground based content.
If you made flying slow then you would at least make flightpoints a valid alternative, but unless you made it slower than a ground mount it would still be the default mode of transportation.
If something allows you to bypass a part of the game, why wouldnt players feel compelled to use it?


Main point here is to debate viable ways to nerf flying in such a way that it can be a part of the base game without completely undermining the point of even having a world to fly through.
If flying as it is now existed form the beginning then we could easily devolve back to MoP or worse, Cata way of open-world endgame content, where you simply completed content hassle free and the world ended up a glorified lobby for raids.
I want the game to really shine in all aspects, not just raids, and you don't get that by encouraging players to pass on playing the game.

[Darknessvamp]

How in your opinion can content be designed around flying?

Storm Peaks is something shown as a zone that is designed around flying, but it didnt really od much more than make it impossible to traverse with a ground mount, the problems in questing inherent with flying was still there. You didnt navigate the zone so much as point your character towards the next objective and clicking autorun, and mobs were still completely bypassed.

By considering it as a factor in quest design? I mean they've tooled around with some quests involving it with items usable while flying, some quest in MoP's Serpent training. I'm sure they could figure out a consistent fighting system while using flying mounts if they put their minds to it and maybe even make certain areas where flying is impeded by aerial threats that steadily become less of an issue the further you progress in questing as well as other unique puzzles or collection quests solutions using flight.

Yeah Storm Peaks isn't designed around content being completed in tandem with flight but being reached through flight but I wouldn't be pointing at that and saying it's Blizzard best attempt at making content with flight in mind... Especially when they dropped flying combat as a feature in that expansion as they couldn't be moved to figure out how to get it to work.

[Nynax]

Honestly....it's a pretty unique idea.

This is essentially flight masters with self directed travel instead of automated A to B flight paths. I kinda dig it.

It kinda works for my "immersion" too. This new Flight Master is essentially like a Stable Master for your dragons. You go to him to pick up your dragon, fly to wherever, and get dropped off while your mount returns home. And it's the exact same thing that happens with random quests, when it's convenient, all the time so it kinda makes sense to be provided a way behind enemy lines that you can direct.

[Sondrelk]

Why don't you RP walk everywhere if you like traveling so much?

I don't want to go slow, I want flying to not be completely and utterly cominant as a mode of transport.

I want a version of WoW where flying exists in such a way that you cannot use it to skip playing the game. That would be like having an IWIN button for every raidboss.

I want ALL parts of the game to be good, not just have Blizzard skip it because I don't care to engage with it. I want to enjoy flying around without that enjoyment coming at the expense of ground based content being made obsolete.

[tacoloco]

I'm perfectly fine with having to jump through pathfinder hoops to get flying. But once I do, I want the freedom that comes with it. I am not at all interested in changes to appease the hand wringing players who don't like it. OP has created a solution in search of a problem.

It's a non starter, OP.

[Sondrelk]

By considering it as a factor in quest design? I mean they've tooled around with some quests involving it with items usable while flying, some quest in MoP's Serpent training. I'm sure they could figure out a consistent fighting system while using flying mounts if they put their minds to it and maybe even make certain areas where flying is impeded by aerial threats that steadily become less of an issue the further you progress in questing as well as other unique puzzles or collection quests solutions using flight.

Yeah Storm Peaks isn't designed around content being completed in tandem with flight but being reached through flight but I wouldn't be pointing at that and saying it's Blizzard best attempt at making content with flight in mind... Especially when they dropped flying combat as a feature in that expansion as they couldn't be moved to figure out how to get it to work.

If the idea is just to have content designed with flying in mind then I can get behind that. I am just not willing to sacrifice ground based content just for that.

I am want Blizzard to really experiment with zones without having to feel restricted by ground based content, or having to contend with the knowledge that current flight is toxic to that very same content.
I am one of the few I have met that wholeheartedly loves Vashj'ir, and that zones is by all accounts a zone that is compltely designed around "flying".

As I said, the problem isnt flight as a concept, it is that Blizzard designed flying far, far too powerful and versatile.
Pretty much anything could be an improvement. Designated takeoff zones, actual skill based gameplay to stay in the air, giant birds that instantly knock you down. Just not this version where you mount up and autorun like you are playing Garrys mod.

[Kokolums]

i would guess the correct fix is to add incentive to use a ground mount. make it a choice do you want to get somewhere fast or get goodies?

[gunnmen01]

[QUOTE=Sondrelk;53073835]You don't see it as a problem when a portion of the playerbase actively campaigns for a version of the game where they don't have to play it?

I don't want flying gone, I want flying to not be detrimental to the game.


And honestly, what about the current system works perfectly? Its only a compromise in the jokey ssense that it is a solution that neither party agrees with. We end up with one half of the game where content on the ground matters and is actually a game while one half whines about not being able to skip it, and then another half where those that don't want flying can only lament that a portion of the game has been unceremoniously gouged out.

Make flying something that can actually exist in the game alongside ground travel without having to cater to players that want to skip the game.

Perfect as in the very simple fact that what you want directly impacts the fact I simply want to fly where ever I'm going. What i suggested would have no effect on you playing the game what so ever, you are free to stay on the ground or fly. I'm not affecting your enjoyment at all while you slow mine down because you want to complicate a simple system.

[Xosimos]

I want a version of WoW where flying exists in such a way that you cannot use it to skip playing the game. That would be like having an IWIN button for every raidboss.

What would you be skipping? Bear#784926 on the way to WorldQuest#5143?

At this point you've seen everything there is, and being landlocked is just as boring as flying from A to B, except it takes longer.

[tacoloco]

I don't want to go slow, I want flying to not be completely and utterly cominant as a mode of transport. I want a version of WoW where flying exists in such a way that you cannot use it to skip playing the game. That would be like having an IWIN button for every raidboss

That's an odd perspective. By the time people finish pathfinder on their main, they've already played enough of the content, where skipping isn't an issue. I don't see any issue with making life easier for someone who put in the work. It also makes it easier to play alts.

Flying is fine as it is.

[Rendark]

I don't want to go slow, I want flying to not be completely and utterly cominant as a mode of transport.

I want a version of WoW where flying exists in such a way that you cannot use it to skip playing the game. That would be like having an IWIN button for every raidboss.

I want ALL parts of the game to be good, not just have Blizzard skip it because I don't care to engage with it. I want to enjoy flying around without that enjoyment coming at the expense of ground based content being made obsolete.

That can't be done dude. You will never have any game be good all the time.

[Sondrelk]

i would guess the correct fix is to add incentive to use a ground mount. make it a choice do you want to get somewhere fast or get goodies?

The way ot thiink about it is that without flying you have running, mount or Flight path. Each one has distinct advantages and disadvantages.
If you run you have access to all your abilities, you are less likely ot get dazed and you can CC enemies easily, not to mention stealth if you have that.
With ground mounts you are fast, but you cannot use abilities and if you get hit you can easily get dazed and therefore dismounted.
With flight paths you skip everything, but oyu cna only use it from and to specific areas, you also cannot stop it easily if you see something interesting like a rare or similar.

Flying however is faster than all three, skips everything, is useable from anywhere, and allows you to stop and take detours. It also allows you to AFK without consequence, which is something that even flightpaths technically don't allow you to.


Currently the only way to have the first 3 options be viable is to remove flying from the game, which as I said annoys those that want flying when it isnt there, and annoys players who don't want it when it is.
A far better compromise is one that allows flying to be a distinct option with pros and cons comparable to the first 3 options.

[Uko]

They wont do anything more than locking it behind pathfinder. When they tried to remove it people rioted and clearly there was enough people unsubbing with the complaint that flying was gone that they backpedled hardcore on it. How does all that restriction actualy make the game more fun anyway? To me it sounds like more tedious bs to satisfy your rp vision of how people should experience the world. Blizzard honestly just needs to do what they did in bc and wrath and other games with flying do. They need to create areas only accessible with flying again. Right now they just create a world thats super tedious to get around on a ground mount that gets instantly trivialized by flying instead of a gameworld that opens up more content and areas to explore when flying is unlocked.

[Henako]

GW2 has the best mounts in any MMO I've ever played. Do it like that.

[Sondrelk]

What would you be skipping? Bear#784926 on the way to WorldQuest#5143?

At this point you've seen everything there is, and being landlocked is just as boring as flying from A to B, except it takes longer.

You skip the game...

Just because you don't care doesnt mean that the same applies to everyone. Some players want the game to consistently be a game, not remove it halfway through. We already have the perfect option for those that don't want tto play the game, it is called summoning stones and every raid and warlock has one.

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Perfect as in the very simple fact that what you want directly impacts the fact I simply want to fly where ever I'm going. What i suggested would have no effect on you playing the game what so ever, you are free to stay on the ground or fly. I'm not affecting your enjoyment at all while you slow mine down because you want to complicate a simple system.

Are you really so naive as to think that is how games work?
Do you really think raids would be as good if every boss could be instakilled with a readily available item? Do you think running legacy raids would be as fun if you got handed all the items when you ran in, or even if all the bosses were already dead and lootable for you convenience?

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That can't be done dude. You will never have any game be good all the time.

Well you certainly don't make the game better by insisting on keeping elements keeping the game bad in.

I don't expect the game to be perfect, but I do want it to be better.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Making flying better isn't a terrible idea. I have just kind of come to the realization that WoW is an autopilot game more or less. Which is why I just don't think it will ever happen. They just pump out expansions that are more or less the same with the nouns and art skins being different but act almost the same, pump out 8 to 10 dungeons, and then 3 tiers of raids. Might get lucky and get a arena map or BG. But that is about it. Just how the game will go. Making flying better would me thinking, working, effort and those things increase cost instead of keeping costs down and riding seasonal spikes the game brings a couple/few times a year.

[Sondrelk]

GW2 has the best mounts in any MMO I've ever played. Do it like that.

Never played it, though I have seen some videos.
I assume it requires some baseline level of skill, which would already be more than what flying in WoW requires.

[Rendark]

Well you certainly don't make the game better by insisting on keeping elements keeping the game bad in.

I don't expect the game to be perfect, but I do want it to be better.

Yes but what you fail to see is some of us don't think it does make the game bad. Some people think it makes the game better.

[Henako]

Never played it, though I have seen some videos.
I assume it requires some baseline level of skill, which would already be more than what flying in WoW requires.

It's not true "flight" as much as it is fancy gliding. You can game it, and if you're good at it you can get pretty far, but you're still actively playing the game.