Making flying better

[FuxieDK]

Flying as it exists in WoW needs to be changed, the version we have is so stupidly broken as a movement option that the only possible way ot balance content around it is to completely remove it.
Alternative movement options completely fail when compared to the option that is mounting up and flying from anywhere.

The current compromise offered players is that flying is disabled entirely until later in an expansion, which does work in giving flying, but doesnt really satisfy either camp. Those who want the convenience of flying only getting it when the content is mostly deprecated, whereas those that doon't want flying to instead focus on better open world content essentially having their preferred version fo the game removed halfway through.

What I then propose is a rework of flying that instead nerfs it in such a way that most of the convenience, in this case quick movement is preserved, with ground content still being a regular part of the game.


Quite simply, flying is now only allowed from set points in a zone.
To help visualize how thios would work imagine the zone of Maldraxxus. In this system flying could for example only be possible starting from the Seat of the Primus, you could then use flying to reach wherever you wanted on the map unhindered, though when you land and engage in content on the ground you would be locked to the ground, necessitating the use of ground mounts, with all the pros and cons that comes with it.

In this way flying could be introduced earlier as the essential factor of ground content being a part of the game is preserved.
Secondly it would also make the rules of flight more transparent. Absolute no-fly zones like Throne of Thunder or Argus would not be ground mounts only because flying is disabled, but instead because there does not exist areas that allow you to start flying.

Another great factor to this version would be that flying could more easily be made easier or harder simply by adding more areas that allow flying in a zone. If Blizzard wants to use, say, the Barrens as a questing zone, they do not need to dismount players who fly, or similar tricks, but instead simply remove the areas in the Barrens that would allow you to start flying, allowing a far more organic and seamless exploration of the world that both allows flying and also doesnt completely undermine the idea of the game being ground based.


Further discussion on alternatives to the current flight system as a whole welcome.

What a click bait thread.
You advertise to make flying better, but you star with something horrible, and with every line makes it worse and worse..

There is only ONE thing that will make flying better: Remove ALL restrictions, and let us fly every ever at all times.

[Sondrelk]

What a click bait thread.
You advertise to make flying better, but you star with something horrible, and with every line makes it worse and worse..

There is only ONE thing that will make flying better: Remove ALL restrictions, and let us fly every ever at all times.

You know what, I will amuse thiss post for a second.

How exactly would removing all restrictions make the game better. How would removing all restrictions make ANY game better?
This is a video game, it is inherently restrictive, that is the entire point. You work within the framework the game gives you, because that is what playing a game is about. The logical endpoint for removing all restrictions is skipping striaght to the endboss or gaining infinite gear.

This is World of Warcraft, not Garry's mod.

[FuxieDK]

You know what, I will amuse thiss post for a second.

How exactly would removing all restrictions make the game better. How would removing all restrictions make ANY game better?
This is a video game, it is inherently restrictive, that is the entire point. You work within the framework the game gives you, because that is what playing a game is about. The logical endpoint for removing all restrictions is skipping striaght to the endboss or gaining infinite gear.

This is World of Warcraft, not Garry's mod.

Let me answer with another question: How does breaking the arms and legs of a paralyzed man, help him become more mobile?

There are already so many restrictions to flying, that restricting further, is the same as removing it completely.

[cozzri]

That doesnt fix the problem that the version of Flying we have is completely beyond broken.
There are those that want the game to have really good ground based content and for that content to eb somewhat relevant throughout the game, not just removed halfway because some players don't want to actually play the game.

What I am proposing is an actual compromise that keeps most of the convenience offered by flying as a quick movement option, while at the same time nerfing it in such a way that ground based mounts and contents doesnt suffer massively from it.

I think maybe doing something similar to Resurrection Sickness would work; Flying Sickness, you get 30% damage output debuff and 30% incoming damage increase for 30 seconds; It would make flying a little less desirable to use in World PvP, and make you actually think about when using it will be best for the situation. And of course no-fly zones like and anti-flight NPCs at key locations.

[Sondrelk]

Let me answer with another question: How does breaking the arms and legs of a paralyzed man, help him become more mobile?

There are already so many restrictions to flying, that restricting further, is the same as removing it completely.

What restrictions to flying is there? Not flying in raids? or od you mean the restriction that you cannot mount up in combat?

Besides, even if you truly believe what you are spouting, this is a game. If we are actually going to go so low as to argue the real life logic then I would much rather start by asking how my undead dragon can stay alof,t much less hover or fly backwards.

[unbound]

TBH, Blizz just needs to learn about incentives.

Flying would not be clamored for so much if most of every new zones wasn't designed with the "cliffs of insanity" mentality. Furthermore, make some breathing room so that travel by ground mount can happen for more than a hundred yards without having to engage with mobs.

People clamor for flying for those 2 reasons (avoid mobs, get around insane zone barriers). Blizz needs to reduce those things to more reasonable levels. Reduce the angst people feel about flying mounts, and they are much more likely going to accept the lack of flying mounts.

Alternatively, Blizz can start designing with flying mounts in mind like they used to do. I know this is not the option they will choose because they are focusing on being cheap. So the first option is something that they can implement with their cheap attitude in mind...they need to stop thinking that the "cliffs of insanity" zone building is necessary.

[Uko]

I think maybe doing something similar to Resurrection Sickness would work; Flying Sickness, you get 30% damage output debuff and 30% incoming damage increase for 30 seconds; It would make flying a little less desirable to use in World PvP, and make you actually think about when using it will be best for the situation. And of course no-fly zones like and anti-flight NPCs at key locations.

I hate to break it to you that debuff would have to be at least 100% for me to care and I would wager a lot of others too. All I would do is shrug and go wow this sucks for no reason at all but just truck on doing my thing including fighting mobs and doing wq.

[FuxieDK]

What restrictions to flying is there? Not flying in raids? or od you mean the restriction that you cannot mount up in combat?

Besides, even if you truly believe what you are spouting, this is a game. If we are actually going to go so low as to argue the real life logic then I would much rather start by asking how my undead dragon can stay alof,t much less hover or fly backwards.

I don't need flying in zones, where I rarely/never come. I need flying in the current zones, ALWAYS.

Notice how we only get flying, once the content have moved to New zones? That means, we never really have flying available.
Flying is needed for levelling.. We had it in TBC (for Druids), in WotLK and Cata, and NOONE EVER COMPLAINED..
MoP restricted it to max level, and then the downwards spiral started..

[Uko]

TBH, Blizz just needs to learn about incentives.

Flying would not be clamored for so much if most of every new zones wasn't designed with the "cliffs of insanity" mentality. Furthermore, make some breathing room so that travel by ground mount can happen for more than a hundred yards without having to engage with mobs.

People clamor for flying for those 2 reasons (avoid mobs, get around insane zone barriers). Blizz needs to reduce those things to more reasonable levels. Reduce the angst people feel about flying mounts, and they are much more likely going to accept the lack of flying mounts.

Alternatively, Blizz can start designing with flying mounts in mind like they used to do. I know this is not the option they will choose because they are focusing on being cheap. So the first option is something that they can implement with their cheap attitude in mind...they need to stop thinking that the "cliffs of insanity" zone building is necessary.

Blizz needs to hire people with your mindset. I love zones like valley of the four winds in pandaria and nagrand in wod. The zones were great to travel in because they were sprawling plains and rolling hills. They had their sections of little valleys and cliffs but it wasnt designed to make traversal as tedious and vertical as places like revendreth are. If the zones weren't sooo painful to traverse on a ground mount playing with restrictions on flying might be more palatable but blizzard designs everything to take as long as possible now because time played is their big metric now.

[Belloc]

Here's the solution: Disable flying while warmode is enabled.

[Sondrelk]

Blizz needs to hire people with your mindset. I love zones like valley of the four winds in pandaria and nagrand in wod. The zones were great to travel in because they were sprawling plains and rolling hills. They had their sections of little valleys and cliffs but it wasnt designed to make traversal as tedious and vertical as places like revendreth are. If the zones weren't sooo painful to traverse on a ground mount playing with restrictions on flying might be more palatable but blizzard designs everything to take as long as possible now because time played is their big metric now.

The problem here is that if we design all zones to be easy to traverse then we don't get unique zones.

Besides, while I enjoy running across plains in Westfall or Valley of the Four Winds and what have you, I definitely had far more fun running across teh rooftops in Suramar.
Similarly it is sometimes annoying to hit a wall in Revendreth, but it is also really fun and liberating ot then be able to jump off the walls and use a goblin glider.

All games have restrictions, and it is how the game allows you to challenge those restrictions that make the game truly great. Not how it removes the restrictions or allows you to bypass them. It's why rocketjumps are fun in Halflife but noclipping is not.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's the solution: Disable flying while warmode is enabled.

And what about those people that don't want flying and also hate PvP?

I guess you could make a third layer of hard mode PvE with greater rewards, but divvying up the game even further seems like it might be ill-advised.

[Dread Pirate Phayde]

TBH, Blizz just needs to learn about incentives.

Flying would not be clamored for so much if most of every new zones wasn't designed with the "cliffs of insanity" mentality. Furthermore, make some breathing room so that travel by ground mount can happen for more than a hundred yards without having to engage with mobs.

People clamor for flying for those 2 reasons (avoid mobs, get around insane zone barriers). Blizz needs to reduce those things to more reasonable levels. Reduce the angst people feel about flying mounts, and they are much more likely going to accept the lack of flying mounts.

This right here, I feel like since Legion, they designed some of the zones to be navigation nightmares. I loathe going to Ravendreth now, especially when a WQ is right by a lift, so you take it to find there's a giant wall, so then you have to go back down and find the next nearest one.

[Uko]

The problem here is that if we design all zones to be easy to traverse then we don't get unique zones.

Besides, while I enjoy running across plains in Westfall or Valley of the Four Winds and what have you, I definitely had far more fun running across teh rooftops in Suramar.
Similarly it is sometimes annoying to hit a wall in Revendreth, but it is also really fun and liberating ot then be able to jump off the walls and use a goblin glider.

All games have restrictions, and it is how the game allows you to challenge those restrictions that make the game truly great. Not how it removes the restrictions or allows you to bypass them. It's why rocketjumps are fun in Halflife but noclipping is not.

- - - Updated - - -



And what about those people that don't want flying and also hate PvP?

I guess you could make a third layer of hard mode PvE with greater rewards, but divvying up the game even further seems like it might be ill-advised.

That's easy if they don't want flying don't use it. I don't like pvp so I don't do arenas bg's or warmode and I don't petition blizzard to remove them.

[Razion]

The problem with buffing ground mounts is it would have to be FASTER than flying to be worthwhile, because flying also has the convenience of avoiding literally all terrain. Otherwise, everyone will still just be flying, because there's no reason to do anything else.

Yeah, that's kind of the point - I'm good with that.

[Sondrelk]

That's easy if they don't want flying don't use it. I don't like pvp so I don't do arenas bg's or warmode and I don't petition blizzard to remove them.

Those two are not really comparable though.

The more apt comparision would be if there was a button that gave you free conquest and rating, then asking players that don't want the game to be desigend terribly to simply pretend like the problem isnt there.

I don't want flying gone, I just want flying to be more in-line with the other forms of movement.

As I mentioned before. Before flying there was a perfectly solid 3-way split between various means of travel. Running for when you want full control, ground mount for when you want to go fast but still get to precise locations, and flight paths for when you want to get somewhere far away really fast.
Flying has the advantages of all of these with none of the drawbacks. It is faster than a flight path, allows precise movement and allows you to ignore obstacles.

Also, flying isnt really content. Flying is the tool you use to skip content. And while sometimes skipping content is good it is possible to have too much of a good thing, especially in video games. A super star in Mario is nice and good, but being able to press a button for a superstar whenever isnt really as fun.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, that's kind of the point - I'm good with that.

Then why care at all about open world content at all? Why not instead try and petition Blizzaerd to allow you to teleport to inside any raid and let those that want open world content have it?

[TrollHunter3000]

Flying as it exists in WoW needs to be changed, the version we have is so stupidly broken as a movement option that the only possible way ot balance content around it is to completely remove it.
Alternative movement options completely fail when compared to the option that is mounting up and flying from anywhere.

The current compromise offered players is that flying is disabled entirely until later in an expansion, which does work in giving flying, but doesnt really satisfy either camp. Those who want the convenience of flying only getting it when the content is mostly deprecated, whereas those that doon't want flying to instead focus on better open world content essentially having their preferred version fo the game removed halfway through.

What I then propose is a rework of flying that instead nerfs it in such a way that most of the convenience, in this case quick movement is preserved, with ground content still being a regular part of the game.


Quite simply, flying is now only allowed from set points in a zone.
To help visualize how thios would work imagine the zone of Maldraxxus. In this system flying could for example only be possible starting from the Seat of the Primus, you could then use flying to reach wherever you wanted on the map unhindered, though when you land and engage in content on the ground you would be locked to the ground, necessitating the use of ground mounts, with all the pros and cons that comes with it.

In this way flying could be introduced earlier as the essential factor of ground content being a part of the game is preserved.
Secondly it would also make the rules of flight more transparent. Absolute no-fly zones like Throne of Thunder or Argus would not be ground mounts only because flying is disabled, but instead because there does not exist areas that allow you to start flying.

Another great factor to this version would be that flying could more easily be made easier or harder simply by adding more areas that allow flying in a zone. If Blizzard wants to use, say, the Barrens as a questing zone, they do not need to dismount players who fly, or similar tricks, but instead simply remove the areas in the Barrens that would allow you to start flying, allowing a far more organic and seamless exploration of the world that both allows flying and also doesnt completely undermine the idea of the game being ground based.


Further discussion on alternatives to the current flight system as a whole welcome.

How is it "removed halfway through" People that don't want flying can just not fly.

[Shiekyerbooty]

I don't want it... even though it would be very easy for me to simply not use it, that's not good enough, I want other people to have to do without it too

[leggomydairy]

You just described slightly less limited flight paths GG

Just design content around flying it’s been the way

[Razion]

Then why care at all about open world content at all? Why not instead try and petition Blizzaerd to allow you to teleport to inside any raid and let those that want open world content have it?

A lot of games have fast travel. We have had this before in minor forms before, if you recall (even if we exclude Summoning Stones and Warlock Closets and Mass Summon). Teleports and portals to raid entrances have been done before, but besides this portals are an extensive part of this game at this point to the point where we now have dedicated portal room that is ever-expanding, and in the last few expansions we've relied on a whistle that basically did just teleport us to taxi points. Though I think for fast travel to be meaningful you can "beat" the content in that area to unlock fast travel to that area would be one way to go about it. That's basically what they require for Pathfinder, anyway. And oh yeah, we do actually teleport into raids for legacy LFR modes anyway.

[ProfesserLupin]

This will never work. Every expansion, some dolt like you makes a post about QQ remove flying because YOU don't want it but frame it as if the entire WoW community is the ones that don't want it. If you don't want to fly, great, stay on the ground. We do want to fly, for many various reasons that have already been mentioned here.