8 dead at Atlanta Massage and Spa shootings

[Grimbold21]

I was replying to you about another poster. You mentioned it was curious how drawing a parallel can be considered trolling. I was under the impression you were talking about another poster who had been infracted, so my reply was about their post, not yours.

No, I was referencing my own respective situation.

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Not really. Folks mostly get upset when cops shoot an unarmed black man in the back. Or a white guy begging for his life in a hotel hallway. Or the cops murder someone in their sleep. Or the cops extensively lie about the circumstances around a shooting. Or the cops get called because of a homeless person having a mental health crisis and posing a potential danger to folks, and show up with long guns to detain...a group of young black men the homeless guy they were called about was harassing. At gunpoint. Despite doing literally nothing wrong and not being the subject of the police complaint.

If you ignore all the context then sure, I guess that argument makes sense?

Sure, I guess that works when one is being selective about the choice of cases that fit within a certain premise.

[Ursus]

No, I was referencing my own respective situation.

Got it, and my low bar remark was a comment about Grubenwolf, not you.

[Edge-]

Sure, I guess that works when one is being selective about the choice of cases that fit within a certain premise.

What, is choking a dude to death over selling some loosies not worth protesting over? Kneeling on a dudes neck for nearly 10 minutes, leading to his death, for the crime of *checks notes* paying with a counterfeit $20?

How about shooting a kid with a realistic looking pellet gun before even giving him the chance to react to the police rolling up? A guy who's unarmed and getting into his vehicle to drive away being shot in the back, followed by the cops claiming that he had a gun when video evidence shows nothing at all that would give them that impression? Shooting a guy with his hands up and a literal cell phone in his hands? How about going to the wrong home of a white guy, who answers the door armed because he doesn't know who's bangin on it, and gets shot? Maybe we could look to the guy in Texas suffering a mental health emergency who got killed by a cop under questionable circumstances, because armed cops not trained to handle mental health crisis where there's no danger to the public shouldn't be responding to those calls?

We've got a lot to choose from dude, I can keep going!

[Grimbold21]

"Orthodoxy" he says as the county police officer literally excused this killer as 'having a bad day'. Lol.

I'm curious exactly who you think is enforcing this "orthodoxy" when the system has vastly more instances of hate crimes going unrecognised than people falsely getting accused of hate crimes. Again, it begs the question of who you think you're protecting because the worst case scenario you describe is one that happens to a group of people that doesn't appear to actually...you know...exist.

And no, their alternative explanations are undermined by the fact they're piss-weak and y'all don't like that so you have to create the impression of a media bias that isn't there. It's just reflexive, reactionary defense of the status quo, as always.

There are no hate crimes in Ba Sing Se.

The same officer was set aside for the, at the least, remarks in poor taste?

You know, the same orthodoxy that blasted that officer and accused him of downplaying anti-asian violence.

I made no mention of false accusations. That's on you for building an inaccurate image of my arguments in an attempt to undermine their legitimacy.

Do I have to go back to my original statement again? What world do we live in that my default reaction or assumption to such events must be "well he's white, so it was a hate crime"? What wondrous times we live in that appeals to moderation are seen as a negative thing.

Mind you, again, that no dismisses the possibility of things being racially motivated, but I suppose that doesn't matter.

[Elegiac]

I made no mention of false accusations.

You sure about that?

Do you folks remember a couple weeks ago or so when someone made a thread or post about the female black college student that felt she was discriminated agaisnt when two staff members approached her because she was alone in the cafeteria? And the media drummed that up greedily? Remember how a investigation was conducted that found no evidence of racially motivated biases? Remember also Themius calling the op a racist?

It really do seem like you're just here to complain that if people assume this this shooting is hate crime it might lead down a slippery slope of SJW orthodoxy where you'll get called a racist for saying hello to a person of color or some nonsense.

[Grimbold21]

What, is choking a dude to death over selling some loosies not worth protesting over? Kneeling on a dudes neck for nearly 10 minutes, leading to his death, for the crime of *checks notes* paying with a counterfeit $20?

How about shooting a kid with a realistic looking pellet gun before even giving him the chance to react to the police rolling up? A guy who's unarmed and getting into his vehicle to drive away being shot in the back, followed by the cops claiming that he had a gun when video evidence shows nothing at all that would give them that impression? Shooting a guy with his hands up and a literal cell phone in his hands? How about going to the wrong home of a white guy, who answers the door armed because he doesn't know who's bangin on it, and gets shot? Maybe we could look to the guy in Texas suffering a mental health emergency who got killed by a cop under questionable circumstances, because armed cops not trained to handle mental health crisis where there's no danger to the public shouldn't be responding to those calls?

We've got a lot to choose from dude, I can keep going!

You lost me a bit. Are you trying to fundament the premise that American police need better training or that the police is inherently racist?

[Rozz]

Cease derailing the thread. The closing of one dumpster fire thread doesn't mean the sentiments that can't be posted there can come here. Tangents about race theory, personal spats, cops, and the like need to stop.

[Grimbold21]

You sure about that?



It really do seem like you're just here to complain that if people assume this this shooting is hate crime it might lead down a slippery slope of SJW orthodoxy where you'll get called a racist for saying hello to a person of color or some nonsense.

Oh that, fair enough, I forgot about it.

But while we're on it, I'm curious to know as to why you'd think that substantiates your position, since it's one example of people immediately jumping on the "racism!" bandwagon to later dismiss the investigation's conclusions. Curious as well that you dismiss the media hypothesis when that's what the media did for the situation.

Curious as well since the NYT, which I reckon is a major news publisher over there, emphasized heavily the victims' identities and added in a few paragraphs on the rise of anti-asian violence. Curious too, that it quoted the President acknowledging the Asian community's fears as a way to reinforce that part of the article(s). Guess we should count ourselves lucky that the Vice President at least was quoted as referring to America's larger problem with violence.

[Slant]

Yo, he hid in the room he was in. How long does it take to make sure he didn't stash a gun in the trash?

Also, the police had already released security video of the alleged gunman, and even arrested him, yet he remained in custody in the back of a cop car because...?

I don't think anyone is objecting to people being temporarily detained and questioned while cops clear the scene, but 4 hours, and refusing to tell the dude anything about his wife during that time, is pretty fucked up, yo.

Yo, Aisha, calm down, yo.

I already conceded that 4 hours is a bit long. But you need to get your emotions in check. He's lucky to be alive, he can take sitting 4 hours in a police car. You weren't there, all you did was read an article. A sensationalist article, with a dude sobbing into a camera. You're basing a lot of assumptions on stuff you don't know anything about. I maintain that my viewpoint is a bit more reasonable. Ie. not everything has to be racism instantly. And that sometimes people have to wait a bit. Heck, I stood over a corpse for 2 hours when I joined the police on a patrol. 2 HOURS at minus ten degrees under a frickin' bridge surrounded by homeless. Stuff takes time, even if you, really REALLY want it to go faster.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Do I have to go back to my original statement again? What world do we live in that my default reaction or assumption to such events must be "well he's white, so it was a hate crime"? What wondrous times we live in that appeals to moderation are seen as a negative thing.

Nobody made the assumption that it was a hate crime because the shooter was white. It looks like a hate crime because the victims were primarily asian. Taken in context with an increase in anti-asian racism...dismissing race as a motive simply because the shooter said "nah, brah, that ain't me" is, at best, naive.

[Edge-]

Yo, Aisha, calm down, yo.

I already conceded that 4 hours is a bit long. But you need to get your emotions in check. He's lucky to be alive, he can take sitting 4 hours in a police car. You weren't there, all you did was read an article. A sensationalist article, with a dude sobbing into a camera. You're basing a lot of assumptions on stuff you don't know anything about. I maintain that my viewpoint is a bit more reasonable. Ie. not everything has to be racism instantly. And that sometimes people have to wait a bit. Heck, I stood over a corpse for 2 hours when I joined the police on a patrol. 2 HOURS at minus ten degrees under a frickin' bridge surrounded by homeless. Stuff takes time, even if you, really REALLY want it to go faster.

He is lucky to be alive, but using that as some kind of justification to offset a guy who just survived a mass shooting being held after the apprehended the suspect while not knowing if his wife was alive or dead is kinda a bad look.

It's more than "a bit" too long, it shouldn't have taken 4 hours to ascertain he was not involved, and we've seen no reporting of anyone else similarly detained for such a period of time as a suspect.

[Slant]

Oh my fucking god. Are we really down to victim blaming, now?

Shocker.

I cannot express how many times I have seen this exact same argument used to excuse police brutality. Jesus Christ.

Cops are not the fucking Punisher, dude.

Not victim blaming, but apparently you are not above throwing around buzzphrases without understanding their meaning. Sitting in a police car for a few hours is hardly the crime to talk about at the scene of a MASS SHOOTING event.

Perspective. PERSPECTIVE. That's what you're lacking. But go ahead, spin your wild conspiracy theory about racism in the police force.

Having someone sit in a police car or an interrogation room is NOT police brutality. Killing someone is. Being brutal is. You need to keep your emotions in check, you are making all kinds of stupid arguments. Police brutality? Are you insane? They were sorting out the crime scene of a MASS SHOOTING event. How do you think that goes? What do you think the police does? Do you maybe agree that they have other things to do than looking at the people they already have secured? Maybe they have to actually double check everything to figure a billion things out?

I'm done with you. If you want to be emotional, be emotional. But don't quote me anymore, I'm not interested in your bullshit.

[Grimbold21]

Nobody made the assumption that it was a hate crime because the shooter was white. It looks like a hate crime because the victims were primarily asian. Taken in context with an increase in anti-asian racism...dismissing race as a motive simply because the shooter said "nah, brah, that ain't me" is, at best, naive.

That knowledge is primarily influenced by the media, as evidenced by the structure of the NYT article. Also, numerical discrepancies aren't necessarily evidence of whatever is that people wish it to be.

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N

Having someone sit in a police car or an interrogation room is NOT police brutality. Killing someone is. Being brutal is. You need to keep your emotions in check, you are making all kinds of stupid arguments.

I'm done with you. If you want to be emotional, be emotional. But don't quote me anymore, I'm not interested in your bullshit.

Hmm I sense a tone policing accusation coming... Then he undermines the notion of orthodoxy

[Slant]

He is lucky to be alive, but using that as some kind of justification to offset a guy who just survived a mass shooting being held after the apprehended the suspect while not knowing if his wife was alive or dead is kinda a bad look.

It's more than "a bit" too long, it shouldn't have taken 4 hours to ascertain he was not involved, and we've seen no reporting of anyone else similarly detained for such a period of time as a suspect.

I didn't use it as a justification. I'm using it to give you some perspective. He survived the mass shooting. In no small part because of the cops that arrived at the scene. The same cops you hate on for having him in custody for four hours. That's it. That's what you're on about. A dude is in custody for four hours. Is it a bad look? Yeah sure, it could maybe have been handled better. But that's about the extend of a valid complaint.

You asking for JUSTICE all drama like? That's out of line. And you know it. You have a very weak argument of being upset about not knowing the fate of your wife and sitting in car for four hours. AT THE SCENE OF A MASS SHOOTING EVENT. Maybe, if Elegiac is not rational enough to see it, you can concede that the police's first job is to secure the scene, get the injured sorted out, make sure no idiot justice warrior tramples all over the evidence trying to film the shit with his go pro and then get to talking to every witness individually and sort out who's a good guy and who's a bad guy. Shooters can have complices, you know...

Amazingly, the cops can't do that all at once. That you haven't seen similar reports doesn't mean that other people haven't been treated the same. That's a big assumption on your part. If I had been there and nobody I loved had been killed, I'd have chilled for four hours and processed the entire information and not go to the fucking TV camera about it. So are you REALLY sure you want to call for heads over this?

Or can you calm down and wait for more news before getting your pants in a twist. Fucksake, you're better than this... I know that.

[Elegiac]

Not victim blaming

"If they wanted their rights respected they should have done X" is placing the burden of responsibility on the victim rather than the perpetrator. That is victim blaming, whether or not you think the perpetrator was justified.

"They were securing the scene of a shooting" is not an excuse to hold a victim's spouse in cuffed detention for four hours based on a hunch.

But go ahead, spin your wild conspiracy theory about racism in the police force.

Yeah I have absolutely no idea why there would be an impression that there could be a problem with bias in the Cherokee County Police Force. It's not like one of their officers was caught being complicit in spreading anti-asian talking points or anything.

[Slant]

@Elegiac Stop pinging me, I have lost interest in your opinion.

[Edge-]

I didn't use it as a justification. I'm using it to give you some perspective. He survived the mass shooting. In no small part because of the cops that arrived at the scene.

Except as far as I can tell based on timelines the gunman was already fled the scene so...what do?

[Elegiac]

I didn't use it as a justification. I'm using it to give you some perspective. He survived the mass shooting. In no small part because of the cops that arrived at the scene. The same cops you hate on for having him in custody for four hours. That's it. That's what you're on about. A dude is in custody for four hours. Is it a bad look? Yeah sure, it could maybe have been handled better. But that's about the extend of a valid complaint.

Not letting a dude be killed by a mass shooter is not a get out of jail free card for breaching people's rights. And the thing is, you're not even disputing that it was a breach of rights - you're just repeatedly claiming that the chaos of the situation and the stress and difficulty of law enforcement justified it.

[Slant]

Except as far as I can tell based on timelines the gunman was already fled the scene so...what do?

Wait... you have a gunman lose and you are telling me the police should drop everything to talk to one particular guy in custody, WHILE THERE IS A GUNMAN ON THE LOSE?

Jesus, do you read what you post? That just completely destroys your entire argument right there. Holy fuck, the only thing I'd have done with that dude is cart him off to the precinct and park him in an interrogation room until the situation is resolved and you are sure no other lives are in danger. That absolutely, unambiguously takes precedence over a dude sitting in a car.

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Not letting a dude be killed by a mass shooter is not a get out of jail free card for breaching people's rights.

And the thing is, you're not even disputing that it was a breach of rights - you're just repeatedly claiming that the chaos of the situation and the stress and difficulty of law enforcement justifies it.

If you want me to educate you on how rights actually work, you'll have to cough up 200 bucks. For the first hour, call it an appetizer, cos I'm generous. If not, stop fucking pinging me.

[Edge-]

Wait... you have a gunman lose and you are telling me the police should drop everything to talk to one particular guy in custody, WHILE THERE IS A GUNMAN ON THE LOSE?

You said the cops saved him from the gunman. They didn't based on what I can tell, the gunman was already gone. The cops arriving or not didn't keep him alive, he was alive because the murderer didn't kill him before leaving.