Why does SL feel like end of expansion time?

[TheFirstOnes]

For Ny'alotha, you were forced to either have your neck at 85+, or you were forced to have your cloak at about lvl 6-10 (Some required 12-15 Cloak lvls). It wasn't fun game design.

[Tadkins]

Wouldn't you just do rated bgs? I did them the first week to get my alt to 1800 to leap frog my ilv.

If I had the friends to invite me/coordination for them. Random battlegrounds let me in with no questions asked, at any time I'm able to play them. Except there's no point because the gear I'm allowed to have will only get me crushed in those. Spent more time in a BG stealthed on my rogue looking for a good fight than actually fighting because everyone is so much more geared. Used to be able to get decent gear as a random BGer, not so much the case anymore. Why I don't feel like I have a place in the game currently.

[Wangming]

"Do you work for Blizzard" is such a non statement. Yes, I have no fucking idea how the story is actually going to go, but there are so many things here that will likely not be solved in 9.1 alone: Where is the Primus (COULD be solved in 9.1, but we don't fucking know for sure)? Will we know more about the inbetween? What is our connection with the First Ones? Where does Azeroth's Titan fit in all of this? How could 9.1 be the end if the Arbiter is still in a coma and there's NOTHING in the patch that implies she'll have a role here? How are the Gardens of Life responding to the whole BS with the Jailer and his attempts to destroy not just the structure of the counterbalance between Life and Death, but also the structure of the Cosmos? Who is the Winter Queen's Sister? Is Sire Denathrius going to be freed? Who is this female "Dreadlord"? Who is the vessel of Life that was hinted at during the Ny'alotha raid? Where does the Jailer himself fit in with the Sanctum of Domination raid? He's not mentioned anywhere? What is this "skybox" change post-SoD raid that's supposed to provide Argus-like Vibes?

There's SO MUCH lore they could provide in Shadowlands, that it's almost impossible for this patch to be the end all be all for SL. Do not write a false narrative of the expansion just because you dislike it, or because you think the Blizzard work schedule is some omniscient force that cannot be altered with whatsoever (Which is false btw, especially with SL...funny enough).

Oh dear so much wrong in a single paragraph. First off plot thread is not the same as lore. Second, if you including the Ny'alotha raid from BfA didn't tip you off, questions raised don't have to be answered in the expansion they were raised in. And third, there is a difference between nowhere close to the end and all being answered in 9.1.

Being this overly dramatic just makes you look silly. Please stop it for your sake.

[Electric Lighter]

If I had the friends to invite me/coordination for them. Random battlegrounds let me in with no questions asked, at any time I'm able to play them. Except there's no point because the gear I'm allowed to have will only get me crushed in those. Spent more time in a BG stealthed on my rogue looking for a good fight than actually fighting because everyone is so much more geared. Used to be able to get decent gear as a random BGer, not so much the case anymore. Why I don't feel like I have a place in the game currently.

I mean your place in the game seems to be wanting to beat newbies without gear in weird unrated duels. Its a really weird niche to design a gear system around. I was able to pug to 1800 easily enough though it was somewhat time consuming and a rogue can do so a lot easier then a mage.

[Tadkins]

No there are not. You just can't jump into high level keys without doing anything before. Why would someone who does not know you take you without experience? Work yourself up like everyone on raider.io did too.
Or find a few people who like you. Maybe they will help you out. Why would i take the chance to ruin my key by taking someone without experience, probably as a result not he best gear? I do that. But only with people i know. Like guildies for example. Not with total strangers i allready take a risk with by not knowing if they even stay the whole run because they have ZERO to loose.

Who says I'm trying to jump into high level ones? Even the lower level ones have a massive barrier of entry and even if I managed to get all the 5s done, I'm still competing for spots in groups for the 6 I want to join by folks who did all the 10s. There's just no winning with the system.

"Find friends" "Find a guild" those are pretty words, but rarely accompanied with actual help with that too. You don't think I've been trying to find a decent community? That's not as easy for everyone either.

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I mean your place in the game seems to be wanting to beat newbies without gear in weird unrated duels. Its a really weird niche to design a gear system around. I was able to pug to 1800 easily enough though it was somewhat time consuming and a rogue can do so a lot easier then a mage.

No, I just don't want to be an idiot and jump into fights I know I'm going to lose in. I just want to fight some good fights with people my level.

If they brought back templates or put in ilvl brackets, I'd be totally cool with that too.

[Soon-TM]

It actively harms players outside of established guilds.

People outside of established guilds are already SoL, so what could we lose with that.

[TheFirstOnes]

Oh dear so much wrong in a single paragraph. First off plot thread is not the same as lore. Second, if you including the Ny'alotha raid from BfA didn't tip you off, questions raised don't have to be answered in the expansion they were raised in. And third, there is a difference between nowhere close to the end and all being answered in 9.1.

Being this overly dramatic just makes you look silly. Please stop it for your sake.

Plot thread isn't the same as lore, you're right. But that in itself doesn't mean the plot going on right now isn't going to be affect by the lore being told. The story of SL is about Life and Death, and the story is about stopping the Jailer and his plan to unmake the Warcraft Universe. The Sanctum of Domination raid makes zero mention of the Jailer so far, and stuff as the Primus and the balance of Life and Death is crucial throughout this expansion. There is no reason to believe this stuff is going to take part in another expansion. Denathrius is still very loyal to the Jailer, and with his ties with Revendreth, and the Venthyr, there's also no reason to believe he'll take part in another expansion as a major enemy.

And yes, I am using Ny'alotha, as it helps tie itself in with the stuff regarding future expansions, ESPECIALLY one that's been hinted at by N'Zoth and co as the "enemy of all". Not to mention all the life hints that have been going on recently, especially with Anduin taking the side of Life against Sylvanas, the fact that Ardenweald is connected with the Dream as well as the Plane of Life (As stated in the Enemy Infiltration book), as well as the fact that the Gardens of Life are legit mentioned specifically in name.

We also have no idea what's going on with the Winter Queen and her key.

"And third, there is a difference between nowhere close to the end and all being answered in 9.1."

You're right. We're still not close to being done, btw.

And no idea why you're telling me to stop being "dramatic". I'm calling you and other guys out for just flat out lying to the community, and saying this expansion's going to end cause you THINK this, instead of these last couple expansions telling you Blizzard's not afraid to tie up as many loose ends as possible. We got fucking ARGUS and the defeat of the Legion in the same expac where the Legion started their initial Azeroth invasion. People thought Argus would be its own expansion.

BFA was also 3 fucking expansions combined into 1. Wanna really claim that the expansion focused on Light and Death won't focus on life, or stuff such as Denathrius returning, or even the Jailer winning against us in 9.1, later on in its runtime? Really? Cause Blizzard could definitely write these narratives down for SL, and literally nothing will change. 10.0 could still exist, but it could just be released later...

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Blizzard does NOT want to repeat WoD.

[Electric Lighter]

People outside of established guilds are already SoL, so what could we lose with that.

You just won't see any gain. You will make things more miserable for those who pug but nothing will change. Just like how gearscore was used for naxx. People don't want to carry players you cant solve that by making all content trivial.

[Echocho]

If I had the friends to invite me/coordination for them. Random battlegrounds let me in with no questions asked, at any time I'm able to play them. Except there's no point because the gear I'm allowed to have will only get me crushed in those. Spent more time in a BG stealthed on my rogue looking for a good fight than actually fighting because everyone is so much more geared. Used to be able to get decent gear as a random BGer, not so much the case anymore. Why I don't feel like I have a place in the game currently.

Fun ain't it? We can thank the content creators for this travesty that fucked over the majority of the playerbase in favor of those that only want to do high end content.

WoW was always at its best when the silent majority were the focal point but fuck that shit, elitists need their e-peen stroked.

[Wangming]

Blizzard does NOT want to repeat WoD.

What they want might not be relevant when circumstances force them to adapt. But your points are duly noted. Time will tell how well it will age. But like you said, Blizzard can wrap up lots of things quickly. 9.2 can be one lore revelation after another. Sure they can go on till 9.20 if they want, but they are first and foremost a business so I personally doubt they would alter their schedule to give out more lore. It would be more their style to sell a lorebook with any question that may have stayed unanswered. But that's just me. The good thing about these disagreements is that one of us is bound to be correct.

[TheFirstOnes]

Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.

Active thread warnings:

This thread is awful close to a "WoW is Dead/Dying" thread, but I've opted to live it open for constructive state of the game discussion. But the weapons-grade takes and infighting need to settle down. Be civil with one another going forward.

Someone hasn't played WoD.

[Zyky]

That's exactly what I said... simply doing 4 +5's will put 2, 210 item's in your vault to choose from

That's better than Normal Raid Gear, that's almost on par with Heroic raid gear

+5's are a joke, you can ignore most of the mechanics, they are easier than past xpacs normal heroics, and they only take 15-30 minutes

There is no way anyone should receive raid quality gear from doing M+, it's mind boggling

You literally replied to me first talking nonsense when I was talking about how the raid is drastically overtuned because they tune the raid around having gear that doesn't drop. Get your facts straight.

[TheFirstOnes]

What they want might not be relevant when circumstances force them to adapt. But your points are duly noted. Time will tell how well it will age. But like you said, Blizzard can wrap up lots of things quickly. 9.2 can be one lore revelation after another. Sure they can go on till 9.20 if they want, but they are first and foremost a business so I personally doubt they would alter their schedule to give out more lore. It would be more their style to sell a lorebook with any question that may have stayed unanswered. But that's just me. The good thing about these disagreements is that one of us is bound to be correct.

They could still 100% fit SL on time. Especially since Blizzconline happened on February of this year. Think of it this way. 9.1 could release around May/June, 9.2 could release around October/November, Blizzconline of 2022 could release around the same time as last years, and that one could give us the announcement of 10.0, and the announcement of 9.3's release date). That way, 9.3 could release, 10.0's Alpha/Beta could start a little after, the final raid of SL could release, 10.0 could release on either late 2022 or early 2023 (Let's go early 2023), and then bam.

Sure, the schedule won't be the same, but I'd like to imagine nothing is the same atm at Blizzard. I think we're just fine rn, though. Especially with Blizzcon (Or should I say Blizzconline) being pushed back to February.

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"It would be more their style to sell a lorebook with any question that may have stayed unanswered."

God no. A lot of the stuff needs to be discovered or answered in game.

[Soon-TM]

You will make things more miserable for those who pug.

Puggers' lives are already miserable, so it can't hurt to try.

[Zorachus]

Someone hasn't played WoD.

I did, and that was the one and only WoW expansion I ever unsubbed from this game.

But thank God for Legion, such a great expansion after the crap test WoD.

Shadowlands might be the second expansion I unsub from. It's just so boring and stale like a filler generic expansion.

[VooDsXo]

BFA and Legion 4 months in I recall still being very packed and tons of players on. But Shadowlands feels different now.

Plus wasn't 7.1 and 8.1 patches both released already by this time in both those expansions?

WoD/BFA/SL are not good expansions to use as any form of empirical data TBC, WOTLK, CATA all kept a fairly large population til after the 2nd raids had been cleared, WOTLK didn't see a dip in population til Ulduar was out for a decent amount of time. As a player who has gotten every expansion on release or earlier, and played throughout vanilla I stopped playing WoD/BFA/SL within 4 weeks out of boredom where as Legion was completely entertaining and fun.

[Electric Lighter]

Fun ain't it? We can thank the content creators for this travesty that fucked over the majority of the playerbase in favor of those that only want to do high end content.

WoW was always at its best when the silent majority were the focal point but fuck that shit, elitists need their e-peen stroked.

I mean the silent majority picked their covenants upwards of 80% all the same to min max... I don't think the silent majority is what you think it is.

[Zorachus]

WoD/BFA/SL are not good expansions to use as any form of empirical data TBC, WOTLK, CATA all kept a fairly large population til after the 2nd raids had been cleared, WOTLK didn't see a dip in population til Ulduar was out for a decent amount of time. As a player who has gotten every expansion on release or earlier, and played throughout vanilla I stopped playing WoD/BFA/SL within 4 weeks out of boredom where as Legion was completely entertaining and fun.

Totally agree.

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When does Ghostcrawler's MMO RPG come out?

[Soon-TM]

When does Ghostcrawler's MMO RPG come out?

Is GC making an MMO now? I thought he had a senior position at Riot... or maybe I'm just lagging behind with the news

[Tadkins]

Fun ain't it? We can thank the content creators for this travesty that fucked over the majority of the playerbase in favor of those that only want to do high end content.

WoW was always at its best when the silent majority were the focal point but fuck that shit, elitists need their e-peen stroked.

I hope they enjoy it. It's clear that we don't belong though.