Classic was easy, TBC will be easy, but what about ICC 25m heroic?

[NineSpine]

Doesnt FF14 have some very difficulty fights at the top end of raiding aswell?
That would disprove your theory that if people can't do the most difficult stuff they won't bother playing at all.

The average player can still obtain best in slot gear. The extreme difficulty is a niche activity, as it should be.

[mhdoe]

Its not new and it is now a well know fight its going to be a cake walk.

[Viikkis]

Its not new and it is now a well know fight its going to be a cake walk.

For who? The top guilds or the whole playerbase?

[Akka]

You always judge a raids difficulty by doing it when the tier is current and dont judge its difficulty on using the final raids BiS to clear the entry level raid.

And Naxx80 was a joke even in leveling gear, if you're completely ignorant of WotLK don't try to teach lessons.
Sunwell gear was ilvl 154, normal 5-man blues were ilvl 187, so WTF is your argument about using "final gear BiS" ?

[iosdeveloper]

Heroic ICC was easier than classic naxx pfft lol, what are you talking about

[kenn9530]

And Naxx80 was a joke even in leveling gear, if you're completely ignorant of WotLK don't try to teach lessons.
Sunwell gear was ilvl 154, normal 5-man blues were ilvl 187, so WTF is your argument about using "final gear BiS" ?

What BS are you even talking about, im talking about using ICC BiS items to clear naxx 25 and then judging it that way, not using previous expansion gear, the first raid tier in WotlK is harder than the first raid tier of TBC and ICC was far harder than the last tier on TBC, so its you the one being ignorant and not even knowing what your actually talking about.

In any case raiding in WotlK was a step up in difficulty compared to TBC, as thats the orgional point.

[Akka]

the first raid tier in WotlK is harder than the first raid tier of TBC

No, just no, and the fact you're saying such BS is a good evidence you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[Viikkis]

Wrath Naxx was never hard. It was a huge complaint back in the day. But Ulduar is where shit got real.

[Gaidax]

It will all be easy because there is now a decade and a half of strategies and know how from private servers that perfected it.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

One question because I really don't know it: Classic bosses are really easy mechanical-wise, so it's no problem to have them work Blizz-like on a private server. But most ICC encounters are more complicated, so are they really working Blizz-like? So for example if the Valkyrs don't work correctly on a private server it's no surprise you need to buff the encounter.

The popular WotLK private servers have ICC down to a science, completely Blizzlike without any bugs. It's Naxx, Ulduar and ToC that are riddled with bugs.

You also have to remember that going back with the knowledge of the perfect comp is already going to be a massive advantage to what Paragon had back in the day. And even then, as good as they were back then, Paragon in WotlK were not perfect. The RL even has to ask if they have AM rdy during the killvideo, something that would be tracked by the RL in even mediocre guilds today. Paragon also grew A LOT going into Cata. Go watch their LK25HC, then watch their Rag25HC. The difference in coordination and overall performance is enormous. Top WotLK private server guilds are a step up from WotLK Paragon, but very few, if any of the top Cata private server guilds are on the same lvl as Cata Paragon.

A top private server guild today WILL have better Dps than what the top guilds had back in the days, just by virtue of having a better comp (already knowing the meta comp before the race starts). Having 10 years to practice and perfect Dps rotations obviously helps aswell, and a decent amount of the WotLK era theorycrafting has been improved upon/proved wrong.

[kenn9530]

No, just no, and the fact you're saying such BS is a good evidence you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Kara was easy if you think otherwise then you are just projecting you being a bad player at the time and increasing its difficulty, WotlK stepped up its difficulty and each expansion has raised overall raid difficulty in at least some areas. Im not saying there was a huge difference but naxx 25 was harder than Kara ever was.

[Shyning]

I managed to get to Sindragosa on 25H when i was a 14 year old retard with half an idea what I was doing, even doing well on meters so.. not even close to the difficulty of some later raids (like sludgefist +)

[Akka]

Kara was easy if you think otherwise then you are just projecting you being a bad player at the time and increasing its difficulty

Sorry, speaking of projecting, are you talking about you and Naxx80 here ? Because you're the one claiming it was harder. Are you a Wrath Baby trying to get some legitimacy by defending what was considered a laughing stock even at the time of its release ?

[arandomuser]

no classic version of an expansion will be hard unless they arbitrarily buff it

sunwell will fall over- watching some classic sunwell videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAQjX1oK6E
mute it because its a cringe tbc kill video but look at the dps meter top dps is 2k, that was what the very best were doing and brutalis was considered an "insane" dps check

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...1006#boss=1118

in naxx people are breaking 2k and even towards 3k almost
the content will fall over when people get to it with gear with like 2-3 times the stats

[Bigbazz]

Heroic ICC was easier than classic naxx pfft lol, what are you talking about

Classic Naxx is easier than normal 10man ICC, I mean what are you talking about?

no classic version of an expansion will be hard unless they arbitrarily buff it

sunwell will fall over- watching some classic sunwell videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAQjX1oK6E
mute it because its a cringe tbc kill video but look at the dps meter top dps is 2k, that was what the very best were doing and brutalis was considered an "insane" dps check

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...1006#boss=1118

in naxx people are breaking 2k and even towards 3k almost
the content will fall over when people get to it with gear with like 2-3 times the stats

Really silly comparison here, Naxx DPS was already higher than TBC dps back when they originally launched, due to world buffs (the main reason) and class changes, like for example Fury Warriors getting rage normalised (no more 1 crit = full rage bar).

Top WotLK private server guilds are a step up from WotLK Paragon, but very few, if any of the top Cata private server guilds are on the same lvl as Cata Paragon.

Top pserver guilds often consist of top retail players and mega hardcore players anyway, with the benefit of years of practice/refinement. But it's a bit silly to base the general userbase on what top players can do, because for most people ICC will either be completely new content or something they did 11 years ago.

Don't forget top guilds cleared Castle Nathria months ago and plenty of guilds who have very competent players are still working on it after many nerfs and with better gear. We all know ICC will get cleared super fast by players who have been clearing it every week for years, it's not really very relevant to the average player going in there.

[Nebulose]

People only remember ...

I can't wait to roll my feral tank.

- - - Updated - - -

Wrath Naxx was never hard. It was a huge complaint back in the day. But Ulduar is where shit got real.

Pre Ulduar Sarth 3d 10 man trying to blow him up. Fun.

[solinari6]

Kara was easy if you think otherwise then you are just projecting you being a bad player at the time a

I'm trying to remember, was Kara initially difficult, and got nerfed fairly quickly? or was it just that the loot was crap, and the loot got buffed, which in turn "nerfed" the fights?

[Viikkis]

no classic version of an expansion will be hard unless they arbitrarily buff it

So when you say hard do you mean "world first kill" or the whole playerbase clearing the raid?

No classic version of an expasion will be hard? So if Blizzard went mad and released Classic: Battle for Azeroth tomorrow. Would the playerbase blast through Mythic Ny'alotha? Or if we go more back how about Legion? WoD?

[klogaroth]

So when you say hard do you mean "world first kill" or the whole playerbase clearing the raid?

No classic version of an expasion will be hard? So if Blizzard went mad and released Classic: Battle for Azeroth tomorrow. Would the playerbase blast through Mythic Ny'alotha? Or if we go more back how about Legion? WoD?

The very first will go in with content as fresh farm from private servers. Even the general population, there's a good chance many people in your group will have already progressed the bosses. It won't take long for people to remember how to do stuff, then when people have remembered, it's pretty quick to get a handful who never did those bosses up to speed. Plus people know what's coming. What strats, classes, specs, gear, talents etc. suit a given fight, backed up by months of empirical data. There is no "quick someone re-roll mage we don't have enough immunes" or "quick we need loads more warlocks for gateways", so you won't be doing fights with semi-scuffed characters that may have been present for first prog on live. You'll know way ahead of time that they're going to be needed.

[kenn9530]

Sorry, speaking of projecting, are you talking about you and Naxx80 here ? Because you're the one claiming it was harder. Are you a Wrath Baby trying to get some legitimacy by defending what was considered a laughing stock even at the time of its release ?

Doesnt matter is naxx was a little easy for some players, kara was even easier as i was clearing that place even without using addons and being a terrible player.

I'm trying to remember, was Kara initially difficult, and got nerfed fairly quickly? or was it just that the loot was crap, and the loot got buffed, which in turn "nerfed" the fights?

It only took longer to clear because the stat jump from vanilla to TBC was much higher than TBC to WotlK, so everyone was forced to gear in TBC where in WotlK gear was only slightly better and rewards from dungeons were pretty good.