Classic was easy, TBC will be easy, but what about ICC 25m heroic?

[Siraeyou]

It think it will be easier in the approach that significantly more guilds will down the content quicker than they did before, even if it's purely by nature of people able to preemptively min/max the expansion.

One thing I think though is we're going to see a bigger divide/gap in the casual/hardcore group because of the increased effort it will take to clear the content since we specifically now have the difficulty separations within the raid. Most of the 'dad guilds' are going to be fine settling for normal difficulty kills to feed the nostalgia trip and there's nothing wrong with that whereas right now you have a hefty chunk of guilds/groups who pushed themselves to a breaking point to try and clear Naxx.

[stevenho]

That is rubbish, you clearly did not raid in BC all that much.

TBC was the hardest to date. You had one difficulty mode and that´s it. Even in WotLK you could face roll normal until you knew the encounter, then add a few layers of difficulty. Also, in WotLK it was far, far more common to have youtubers already talking in quite some detail about encounters where in BC you´d find beautiful low resolution videos with music background of people already killing the boss

In BC mana management was a real thing and a lot of people had the responsibility of helping others with that, or boosting damage for others, etc. Heck, buffing up was a responsibility on its own still lol.

Yes, from WotLK tactic started getting more complex, but the simple fact that we had multi difficulty choices made it easier as we could "train" for the real deal.

Cool, but we are talking about doing LK25HM today.

[Nyxblow]

I'm pretty sure Wotlk hard modes were not that easy for casual guilds during their respective patches.

Obsidian Sanctum 3 drakes
Some Ulduar hard modes like Yogg-saron 0, Mimiron hardmode
Trial of the Grand Crusader with 0 deaths and 50 attempts left (I think that's how it worked? I might be wrong)
Even Naxxramas's Immortal can be "hard" in the sense that in casual guilds you'll easily have a couple bad apples in your 25 man roster.

No idea about ICC because I didn't play that patch.

[Ragedaug]

It may be interesting to see what difference the lack of world buff gathering will make in BC. When you look at a straight comparison to how difficult raids were in Vanilla compared to Classic Vanilla, we all know the importance experience and knowledge play into trivializing the content, but you can't discount how much world buffs contribute to that.

So I would agree that Classic BC raids will be downed much quicker than original BC raids, however I think they will still be a challenge to many, especially casual/feeder guilds as they will not be able to show up fully world-buffed.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm pretty sure Wotlk hard modes were not that easy for casual guilds during their respective patches.

Obsidian Sanctum 3 drakes
Some Ulduar hard modes like Yogg-saron 0, Mimiron hardmode
Trial of the Grand Crusader with 0 deaths and 50 attempts left (I think that's how it worked? I might be wrong)
Even Naxxramas's Immortal can be "hard" in the sense that in casual guilds you'll easily have a couple bad apples in your 25 man roster.

No idea about ICC because I didn't play that patch.

I played in a pretty casual guild in WotLK. We downed LK Normal in about 2 months of attempts, and downed maybe half or more of the ICC bosses on Hard Mode (which includes the zone buff), in the 12 months ICC was available.

[Daronokk]

How is this even a consideration when we didn't get to fight pre-nerf C'thun either. We fought nerfed C'thun with patch 1.12 balance.

Classic isn't a 100% copy of Vanilla WoW. It's very close but not the same.

Burning Crusade Classic will be the same way. And so will Wrath of the Lich King Classic if that ever becomes a thing.

[Kalexia]

How is this even a consideration when we didn't get to fight pre-nerf C'thun either. We fought nerfed C'thun with patch 1.12 balance.

Classic isn't a 100% copy of Vanilla WoW. It's very close but not the same.

Burning Crusade Classic will be the same way. And so will Wrath of the Lich King Classic if that ever becomes a thing.

Yeah but their plan is to go with the hardest versions of BC encounters, not the easiest like they did in classic. That plus no world buffs is a lot different than what is happening in classic right now.

[meathead]

People only remember the absolutely nerfed version of ICC with 30% more hp, damage and healing.
Even with that buff only ~1100 guilds were able to kill the boss in 25m size, after obtaining more or less BiS gear.
The world first kill was done with the first buff available (and yes there were limited attempts!).

It's not about hardcore guild crushing ICC very fast. That will happen as it happens with todays raids.
It's about the casual player that crushes todays classic and soon-coming tbc raids.
Will that also happen to ICC 25m heroic?

Remember, during WotLK, 10m raiding never had the prestige of 25m, so just ignore that.

raiding was harder in TBC wrath is where things went easy mode!
matter of fact blizz said themselfs they wanted more players into end game raiding as TBC was harder and gated compared to wrath. more players raided end game in wrath then the tbc and the player pop was only about 1 million different in subs #'s.


i played on private tbc servers for like the last 6+ years and i can tell you 100% at end game some guilds will go horde even for pve for the better dps racial. but once people get geared up its not to hard to look at youtube and learn about a 10+ year old game/fight.

any "classic" x pac thats been played like classic tbc wrath cata or the like is not difficult because its been done before.

this is ONE big reason why i think all new servers for classic tbc wrath ect should all start at level 1-70. if they start at 60... people will be raiding in a week and get board and qq for new content.....

[Bigbazz]

This is the time where you present a pre 3.1 video of anyone doing that.
Or just say "trust me"

Well find me the earliest kill then, because I very vividly remember doing that pretty early on, specifically on 10man. On 25man I didn't do it that way until well into the expansion maybe, but my guild in WOTLK was pretty rough in 25mans we barely scraped through everything.

Edit : Actually nevermind I found a video immediately.



Pug group doing it and uploaded 1 week before Ulduar came out. I knew I wasn't losing my mind after all.

[Eninya]

When people in totgc + icc gear think they did something by zerging a first tier boss on hardmode

It was literally done before Ulduar came out, but if it took you to TotC and ICC to do it... Well, you're a level of casual I didn't think was conceivable.

[Coolascancer]

Only time will tell but I think ICC25M heroic, specifically LK, will not be easy for your average player. Hell, I dont think 0 lights or Mimiron HM or Freya HM will be easy for your average player. It does depend on a lot of things like patch builds and what version of bosses get released but I will, 2-4 years before the fact, say that ICC heroic will not be easy.. I won't comment on Ruby Sanctum as I did that fight once on normal and never stepped foot in there again.

[ehma]

We killed OS3D using a warlock tank and 1 healer (i believe a disc) very early on (server first).

This was pugged content on our server not much later. During naxx many pugs failed but later on during ulduar everyone did this for the mount.

People saying people were clueless back in the day are Just wrong. We cleared naxx 25 mainly wearing T6 /sunwell gear. I remember not everyone was even lvl 70

Uh I’m sorry what? Maybe my memory is complete shit but there is no way you used a warlock tank early on with 3 drake. Do you have a video of this?

Edit: nvm I found a couple videos. Wow I never knew this. We did this with a warrior and pally tank from what I remember I didn’t even know this was a strat. Cool.

[Flexs]

Absolutely not, private servers have ICC 25 man heroic BUFFED by at least 30% health and damage when they're released. Not sure if this is allowed but check whitemane and sunwell - Some raids are buffed by 150% health and damage.

Here you go: Lich king buffed by around 18% at 0% hellscream buff https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=395lLi5dDR0&ab_channel=DunderJ

[anon5123]

"Will 10+ year old content that is studied inside and out be easy?"

gee I dunno OP

[Bigbazz]

Absolutely not, private servers have ICC 25 man heroic BUFFED by at least 30% health and damage when they're released. Not sure if this is allowed but check whitemane and sunwell - Some raids are buffed by 150% health and damage.

Here you go: Lich king buffed by around 18% at 0% hellscream buff https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=395lLi5dDR0&ab_channel=DunderJ

I always take those things with a pinch of salt though, private servers have often had bugs or differences that change class performance, along with a few of them also having cash shops. People like to pretend that private servers are 100% like for like, but that is rarely the case.

[Flexs]

I always take those things with a pinch of salt though, private servers have often had bugs or differences that change class performance, along with a few of them also having cash shops. People like to pretend that private servers are 100% like for like, but that is rarely the case.

I would agree with you, but I have played on these private servers. Some of these guilds have being playing WOTLK since 2012 every week. It's the same for classic and TBC, these guilds will DOMINATE the scene.

[Uvania]

i never found icc25 hc challenging really, just Lich King but a end-game boss should be hard, sunwell on the other hand and vashj/kael'thas were some proper struggles for us and illidan.

i found trial of the grand crusade and ulduar much more challenging overall during wotlk with algalon being insane.

[Bigbazz]

I would agree with you, but I have played on these private servers. Some of these guilds have being playing WOTLK since 2012 every week. It's the same for classic and TBC, these guilds will DOMINATE the scene.

I mean maybe, this won't be relevant for many people though. It's like inventing the internal combustion engine, it's a lot easier to make one after all the design and process has been figured out. But even then, most players haven't had the benefit of raiding that content in the last 10 years and it will still be challenging.

I think LK25hc at 0% is probably harder than current day nerfed Sire Denathrius, and 25% it's still probably hard enough to give many people issues. People will need to set their expectations more at a modern raiding mindset than the roflstomping that goes on in Classic, and will go on for most of TBC.

i never found icc25 hc challenging really, just Lich King but a end-game boss should be hard, sunwell on the other hand and vashj/kael'thas were some proper struggles for us and illidan.

i found trial of the grand crusade and ulduar much more challenging overall during wotlk with algalon being insane.

When did you do it though, because ICC has the problem of being remembered when almost everyone who killed a boss did it with some % of Hellscream buff in place. The buff was already stacking before my guild cleared normal, it came in really early (especially considering ICC was a gated release like Sunwell).

I think pre-nerf Putricide 25 normal is harder than most of Ulduar, including some of the easier hardmodes, and we had some members in my guild (as shitty as we were) who got world top 5 on a few Ulduar bosses.

[ClassicPeon]

It was literally done before Ulduar came out, but if it took you to TotC and ICC to do it... Well, you're a level of casual I didn't think was conceivable.

"a few people did it fast so if you arent one of those few people you are extremely casual"

5 year olds logic ftw

[anon5123]

It was literally done before Ulduar came out, but if it took you to TotC and ICC to do it... Well, you're a level of casual I didn't think was conceivable.

"if you are not top 1%, you are casual"

mega yikes

[Viikkis]

"Will 10+ year old content that is studied inside and out be easy?"

gee I dunno OP

Which expansion of WoW would not be easy in your opinion if it were to be released as classic?