Dominion Files Suit against Fox News, Smartmatic Piles On

[Breccia]

Is this something that can be settled out of court?

Yes. But I'm not sure Dominion will accept any offer other that doesn't include a full frontal apology. And FOX News isn't keen on admitting they lied to their viewers on purpose for profit.

[beanman12345]

Yes. But I'm not sure Dominion will accept any offer other that doesn't include a full frontal apology. And FOX News isn't keen on admitting they lied to their viewers on purpose for profit.

Thanks, I hope dominion get's the whole 1.6b than. And yeah that's one of the things they passed on their viewers, do nothing but lie, and never admit to it.

[Dontrike]

Is this something that can be settled out of court? It seems strange that it hasn't yet, with even Rupert Murdoch being deposed. Fox settles out of court all the time so that's certainly not an option they wouldn't take I would imagine. But maybe defamation cases can't be?

From the article it says neither side wants to settle, likely cause Dominion wants full damage and Fox wants to see what it can get away with.

[D Luniz]

Is this something that can be settled out of court? It seems strange that it hasn't yet, with even Rupert Murdoch being deposed. Fox settles out of court all the time so that's certainly not an option they wouldn't take I would imagine. But maybe defamation cases can't be?

can, but Im guessing, if Dominion is willing to ask for 1.6 Billion, its less about the money and more about inflicting pain
and letting Fox toss them a check and skate on saying "we never lost that case, we don't admit any wrongdoing" is something everyone knows they'll let people belive "Fox was right, its just the lib courts trying to silence the truth!!"

so no, they'll make them have their day in court, and in a way Fox cant try to weasel their way out of publicly unquestioned admitting of lying

[Endus]

From the article it says neither side wants to settle, likely cause Dominion wants full damage and Fox wants to see what it can get away with.

I wouldn't even say it's necessarily about "full damages". They're likely demanding a full admission of wrongdoing and apology that gets more press presence on Fox News than the original slandering did. And Fox is gonna fight that with everything.

Like, not a "we misspoke and apologize to Dominion for the misunderstanding" non-apology, a full-throated "we were intentionally lying to you, our viewers, to push a deliberate falsehood in support of a dishonest and malicious political attack on an innocent party" apology.

[Breccia]

I wouldn't even say it's necessarily about "full damages". They're likely demanding a full admission of wrongdoing and apology that gets more press presence on Fox News than the original slandering did. And Fox is gonna fight that with everything.

Agreed.

Meanwhile, FOX News might be quoted in the article as not willing to settle, but I think they're lying. I think they know they're dead in the water and would love a lifeline, but since they know one's not coming, they're claiming they just felt like swimming.

[Edge-]

https://www.reuters.com/legal/fox-ne...ms-2023-02-14/

Not for nothing, but -

A New York state appeals court rejected Fox News' bid to dismiss a multibillion-dollar defamation lawsuit accusing the network of falsely accusing an electronic voting systems company of helping rig the 2020 U.S. presidential election to favor Joe Biden over Donald Trump.

In a 5-0 decision, the Appellate Division in Manhattan said Smartmatic USA alleged in "detailed fashion" how Fox News and some anchors and guests "effectively endorsed and participated in (defamation) with reckless disregard for, or serious doubts about" whether the company engaged in election fraud.

Smartmatic had sought $2.7 billion in damages, saying Fox News knowingly lied about its technology and how it was used in order to boost ratings, and keep Trump supporters from defecting to the right-wing networks Newsmax and One America News.

I know neither lawsuit will ever result in the maximum damages, but just interesting to note that Fox News is now on the receiving end of a combined $4.3B in legal damages.

[Poopymonster]

https://www.reuters.com/legal/fox-ne...ms-2023-02-14/

Not for nothing, but -



I know neither lawsuit will ever result in the maximum damages, but just interesting to note that Fox News is now on the receiving end of a combined $4.3B in legal damages.

Could they be Alex Jones levels of fucked?
Asking for my trans gay frogs.

[Edge-]

Could they be Alex Jones levels of fucked?
Asking for my trans gay frogs.

Absolutely not. I'd still be surprised if judgements were awarded to either Dominion or Smartmatic, and if they are that they will be very considerable. If I was laying odds on anything, I'd bet attorney's fees at most.

[Breccia]

Could they be Alex Jones levels of fucked?

Same as with Dominion. FOX News is on the least risky side, because they can claim -- falsely -- that all they were doing was reporting what other people were saying. Based on their commentary I don't think that should stick, but at least they have an excuse, Powell, for example, doesn't.

EDIT: If that defense works, I hope it works quickly. If the defense "we were just citing what other people were saying" is taken, that means those other people should be at greater risk, since people don't usually get blamed for doing the right thing.

[Paranoid Android]

One thing that leaps out of the document is just how panicked were network officials about the viewers' disenchantment with the network's very early call of Arizona for Biden. It appears the whole place was in a state of revolt:

https://twitter.com/ErikWemple/statu...CwaNhbQPw&s=19

Documents in link and thread.

Kind of common knowledge but this shows they wanted to placate the viewers and talent wanting a different result.

This seems like a 10 point lead in basketball in 4th quarte, yet you know that anytime the refs may eff you.

[Breccia]

Documents in link and thread.

Uh...link? Did you mean the WaPo Tweets shown here?

[Cthulhu 2020]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-st...ion-fraud-lies

Behind the scenes of the shows where they were amplifying baseless claims that the 2020 presidential election was rigged, the star hosts, producers, and executives of Fox News were furiously messaging each other. They reacted in frustration and bewilderment to their own broadcasts, calling the conspiracy theorists to which they were ceding airtime “F’ing lunatics,” “totally off the rails,” and “MIND BLOWINGLY NUTS.”

As the start of an explosive brief unsealed Thursday evening as part of Dominion Voting Systems’ $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against the network argues: “Fox knew.”

“From the top down, Fox knew ‘the dominion stuff’ was ‘total bs,’” the filing continues. “Yet despite knowing the truth—or at minimum, recklessly disregarding that truth—Fox spread and endorsed these ‘outlandish voter fraud claims’ about Dominion even as it internally recognized the lies as ‘crazy,’ ‘absurd,’ and ‘shockingly reckless.’”

The partially redacted, 192-page filing is stuffed with texts, emails, and testimony from marquee names like Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Laura Ingraham lashing out at key Trumpworld figures and insulting them in bitter terms.

Sidney Powell? An “unguided missile,” “dangerous as hell,” and “poison,” according to Carlson.

Mike Lindell? “On the crazy train with no brakes,” as Gary Schreier, senior vice president of programming for Fox Business, phrased it.

Rudy Giuliani? “So full of shit,” a Lou Dobbs Tonight producer snapped.

The concerns wormed their way up to the top of the food chain, according to the filing. On Nov. 19, Rupert Murdoch, Fox’s powerful chairman, watched as his network broadcast the entirety of a press conference held by Giuliani and Powell, who took turns spewing vitriolic remarks about the election. Murdoch then fired off a text: “Really crazy stuff. And damaging.”

[Dontrike]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-st...ion-fraud-lies

Fox News hosts: "Those texts are fake, the Deep State took it and typed those. Now let me tell you why kids learning history will turn them gay and Canadian and why gays blah blah blah, fascist fascist fascist."

[s_bushido]

If that stuff's true, isn't this basically a slam-dunk case for the company suing them?

Nah...probably just wishful thinking on my part. I guess Fox can try to spin it as merely the opinions of their employees, and not necessarily them knowing that they were lying their worthless asses off when the cameras were rolling.

[Breccia]

If that stuff's true, isn't this basically a slam-dunk case for the company suing them?

Might be enough to bring FOX News to the bargaining table. Dominion wants an admission from FOX News that they knew it was false but published it anyhow. FOX News does not want to admit guilt, but should be very concerned about how damaging this looks -- defamation is a specific legal term and these text actually do the heavy lifting since they show intent.

To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact; 2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and 4) damages, or some harm caused to the reputation of the person or entity who is the subject of the statement.

-- Cornell Law

Dominion have 2 and 4 locked up. Part 1 would mean they'd have to show they weren't compromised -- doesn't sound difficult. And these texts show part 3.

FOX News can continue to stonewall behind "Trump said it, therefore it is news" but I don't see that working here. One, Trump's also a target. Two, Dominion likely has hours of recording of FOX News' broadcasts, in which the claims about Dominion are not prefaced by "Trump said..." And three, not every word said by every public figure needs to be repeated. But considering how badly caught they are, they only have one other option:

Malice.

FOX News can attempt to claim they were reporting someone else's theories with a responsibility as a news organization (eyeroll) to repeat it, and that they meant no harm, only business. Apparently, in defamation, some people can get away with it in some circumstances -- such as a witness on the stand -- if there is no malice intended. These texts say a lot, but "let's fuck Dominion over because we hate them" is likely not there. So, FOX News could and probably will try "yes, we intentionally spread damaging and false information about Dominion, but because it wasn't personal we're allowed to do that".

Not an expert, but that sounds like an affirmative defense the judge can reject. If that defense is allowed, it might be enough for the judge to, as a matter of law, end up dismissing the case.

If that defense is not allowed, FOX's strategy will become begging for mercy.

If FOX News thinks they're going to be found guilty regardless, they might actually offer $100 million and an apology, so they don't face $1 billion and an finding of guilt.

Based on these texts, if a judge/jury is forced to decide between FOX News and Dominion, and since "reasonable" doubt doesn't apply, I think Dominion would win. It seems pretty clear that FOX News more likely than not knew the claims were somewhere between "fictional crazy theory with no evidence" and "objectively false". Negligence does the rest.

So it's not a slam dunk, only because FOX News (and only them) could have a loophole that lets them talk this kind of shit and not get slapped for it. Everyone else is fucked, as a lawyer, not being a news organization or even an entertainment channel pretending to be one, can't hide behind that clause. Nor can a lawyer get away with "my client ordered me to say these false things on camera, therefore I had no choice".

That's my read, at least.

- - - Updated - - -

So, big surprise, there's a lot of stories today on the topic except, somehow, on FOX News. Their headline today is a clickbait headline about a trans person and they literally spend more time talking about Chik-Fil-A's negative reviews of their vegetable sandwich than the fact that they called their viewers crazy fuckwits.

Now I understand -- but that's FOX News taking the TV show parallel of the walk of shame.

Others, however, got straight to the point. Here's something I hadn't seen yet.

When Rupert Murdoch watched Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell make false claims of electoral fraud on Nov. 19, 2020, he told Fox News Media CEO Suzanne Scott: “Terrible stuff damaging everybody, I fear,” according to the filing.

On Jan. 5, 2021, a day before the deadly attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump supporters, Murdoch wrote to Scott saying “It’s been suggested our prime time three should independently or together say something like ‘the election is over and Joe Biden won,’” and that such a statement “would go a long way to stop the Trump myth that the election stolen.”

Just going to repeat that last part for emphasis.

“would go a long way to stop the Trump myth that the election stolen.”

And a third time, because I'm a vindictive asshole.

“would go a long way to stop the Trump myth that the election stolen.”

Murdoch knew. He knew it was false, and FOX News said it anyhow.

Murdoch separately told Fox News leadership that Guiliani was to be taken “with a very large grain of salt,” and bemoaned the fact the former New York City mayor was advising Trump in the post-election period, the filing shows.

The TheHill article goes onto explain a defense FOX News is preparing which I hadn't considered: the First Amendment. I hadn't considered it, because I'd dismissed it out of common sense. The First Amendment does not block defamation cases. Dominion is not the government -- their lawsuit is not a First Amendment issue. Also, of course, there's

FIRE! There's a fire in this crowded theater! Everyone RUN!!!!

The First Amendment does not mean you can say whatever you want, whenever you want, without consequenes. If I tell my students that 2 + 2 = 5, I can get fired for that, and I work for the government.

FOX News' First Amendment defense feels like a desperate smokescreen, and that desperation suggests they don't have a real defense.

1) They knew it was false.

2) They presented it anyhow, as if it was true.

3) They did it on purpose.

4) And they knew their lie would hurt people. Maybe not the murderous insurrection -- we have evidence FOX News hosts were actually trying to stop that part -- but monetary damages to Dominion and others.

Bushido Code earlier asked if this was a slam dunk. I now know someone who believes it is: FOX News.

Man, I really hope they're as fucked as even they think they are.

[Paranoid Android]

If that stuff's true, isn't this basically a slam-dunk case for the company suing them?

Nah...probably just wishful thinking on my part. I guess Fox can try to spin it as merely the opinions of their employees, and not necessarily them knowing that they were lying their worthless asses off when the cameras were rolling.

I'm such a pessimist. Seems good evidence.

First, they will now hide behind First Amendment, we are the press bullshit. They will try to twist it into they were just giving the point of view of Trump I guess. Yes, the texts show almost collusion but hey.

Second of course and sadly is its viewers. Where should I start? They will project more that everything else is fake news when ironically how much Fox news is. They will only watch Fox witch will not report or twist the facts. The sheeple are hard to turn from slaughter. One of the most frustrating parts is knowing these people are just so braindead, stupid and want to be fed hate and fear over objective news.

As the texts revealed they almost immediately panicked when Fox viewers switch for barely a minute to NewsMax. Amazing actually that them watching lose viewers in real time panicked they would never get them back. Fox is still strong if not stronger since those companies lost cable contracts, yet they were really scared their viewers needed more propaganda. The Oh Btw to this is they understand they can never give Fair and Balanced news since they people don't want that.

- - - Updated - - -

Might be enough to bring FOX News to the bargaining table. Dominion wants an admission from FOX News that they knew it was false but published it anyhow. FOX News does not want to admit guilt, but should be very concerned about how damaging this looks -- defamation is a specific legal term and these text actually do the heavy lifting since they show intent.

Best case scenario likely is the money damages. Probably not the full amount, but maybe a good $1 billion. As I just stated none of its viewers are going to wake up and say "wow this is not news". Even the other MSM will still view Fox as its equal partners.

[Breccia]

Even the other MSM will still view Fox as its equal partners.

FOX News maintains a high market share because
1) there are plenty of places you can go for factually correct, evidence-based reporting
2) there's not as many places to go for lies that you want to believe are true

Newsmax can't crack that shell open. They tried, they failed, then after they failed they got greedy and it cost them more viewers. FOX News can survive taking a billion-dollar hit. Newsmax will evaporate like Cheeto dust in a light breeze.

[arandomuser]

i like how the only news org we have multiple emails of people there admitting they lie and have an agenda, is the same company that supposed" media skeptics" simp for 100% of the time

[Kokolums]

5) FOX News can't settle. Powell and Giuliani are both done. Their careers are over. FOX News still wants to stay on the air. Admitting they intentionally pushed Fake News, which led to a murderous insurrection?

That's spicy. Biden threatened the physically assault Trump multiple times. Republicans could easily claim that led to the "murderous insurrection" as you claim. Multiple times over many years. Biden encouraging violence in politics. If FOX is guilty, I mean Biden needs to be impeached, cuffed and the entire democratic party investigated, as this was not coming from the press but wide out in the open by a leader of the democrat party. VASTLY worse.

- snip -

Infracted.