Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[Toppy]

Do... "skilled" players bitch like this actually? I havent seen it myself. The only time I see them bitching about anything related to this is when they feel they need to do lower content to progress, not so much when others also get good stuff.

[chiddie]

Didn't even have to be that high. Hell it doesn't even have to be gear. Implement templates or a PvP stat again, or put in an ilvl bracket for random BGs, and I would have been happy.

But Blizz and the WoW community seem to think I should pay for the game only to take punches to the face and kicks in the crotch, and to them I ask...why should I?

May I ask what’s your actual ilvl? Because IF you have enough gold, getting to somewhere between 200 and 205 is not difficult.

You can get a full 197 set with covenant campaign and anima upgrades.

You can get a legendary at least to level 2 (210) without spending a fortune.

Callings and adventure tables give you a chance of other 197 or 203 items.

Weekly world boss takes 10 minutes and has a ilvl 207 drop chance.

You can buy 4 boe objects, even ilvl 226, for gold at AH (ok, these are a LOT of golds).

This will put you as I said somewhere between 200 and 205 without doing anything “grouped” apart from world boss.

I don’t know if it’s enough not to be instagibbed in random bgs, though.

[Tadkins]

May I ask what’s your actual ilvl? Because IF you have enough gold, getting to somewhere between 200 and 205 is not difficult.

You can get a full 197 set with covenant campaign and anima upgrades.

You can get a legendary at least to level 2 (210) without spending a fortune.

Callings and adventure tables give you a chance of other 197 or 203 items.

Weekly world boss takes 10 minutes and has a ilvl 207 drop chance.

You can buy 4 boe objects, even ilvl 226, for gold at AH (ok, these are a LOT of golds).

This will put you as I said somewhere between 200 and 205 without doing anything “grouped” apart from world boss.

I don’t know if it’s enough not to be instagibbed in random bgs, though.

Currently not subbed due to computer problems so my main is still at 50. Just going by the system as read from afar. Folks here seem to think that you can't know how the state of the game is unless you are playing with a sub lols. Videos, fansites and forums do exist.

But anyway the system seems to ooze nothing but contempt from the Blizz devs for those not in organized content. And as clear from this thread the community doesn't have a high opinion of people like me either. So it makes me wonder if I really should come back once my computer is fixed.

The difference between 200 and 226 seems pretty big and it probably would just get me instagibbed in BGs. How would someone like me be able to find that fun? 40 plus pages of asking this question and still no answer.

[Gaidax]

Currently not subbed due to computer problems so my main is still at 50. Just going by the system as read from afar. Folks here seem to think that you can't know how the state of the game is unless you are playing with a sub lols.

But anyway the system seems to ooze nothing but contempt from the Blizz devs for those not in organized content. And as clear from this thread the community doesn't have a high opinion of people like me either. So it makes me wonder if I really should come back once my computer is fixed.

The difference between 200 and 226 seems pretty big and it probably would just get me instagibbed in BGs. How would someone like me be able to find that fun? 40 plus pages of asking this question and still no answer.

I mean, WoW is WoW. What do you expect? It's not "Shadowlands thing".

Back in my days in Vanilla I too was rocking ret paladin in BGs with full Grand Crusader from naxx and 2h from there pretty much oneshotting most people on the server in BGs with a bloody SoC proc autoattack. It was funny watching BG randos try to take on me with their 2.5k HP, when my autoattack critted for that.

Hell, compared to then - game now is super cuddly to casual players. Imagine not having half the HP and quarter the damage of the raider, what is that even?

Same went for TBC, where I was oneshotting people for my teen fun in the Isle of Quel'danas with a single Soul Fire from max range on this lock. You just see some guy at max range, start casting that one single spell and he's dead ~4 seconds later.

---

IMO, Vault is single biggest buff to casual gearing ever. And ilvl cap legendary of your choice literally just being given away instead of RNG, pretty much too, really.

The only real fuckup Blizz had with gearing this expansion is raid one. They basically gave excellent gearing progression everywhere, but raids are still that old drops only thing.

[arkanon]

Didn't even have to be that high. Hell it doesn't even have to be gear. Implement templates or a PvP stat again, or put in an ilvl bracket for random BGs, and I would have been happy.

But Blizz and the WoW community seem to think I should pay for the game only to take punches to the face and kicks in the crotch, and to them I ask...why should I?

So just to be clear - WoW does have a system of pvp ratings, which you actively choose not to participate, and then ask them to introduce a pvp rating system? But, you want it to be VASTLY inferior, and easily exploited? What is stopping a glad from equipping lower ilvl gear and absolutely stomping you? You do realise that in similar gear, a skilled player would still utterly destroy you, right?

I have seen multiple people make this idiotic claim that the only difference between an LFR hero and a world first mythic raider is, and i quote: "their ability to put up with elitist assholes and get carried through mythic". This is the actual thought process of some of the people in this very thread "i am just as good as a world first raider, and deserve the same gear - they are no better than me at the game, they are just elitist".

What i see here is some individuals wishing for their own progression path beyond what exists in the game - like dungeon sets in TBC - or something i have advocated for since forever ago - it can even have bonuses similar to the covenant gear, but stronger - reduced hearths, faster mount speed, flight whistle, a second hearth location, etc etc - stuff to allow them to be more efficient and powerful in their chosen pursuit - no worries at all.

The other thing i see is delusional people who believe they DESERVE mythic loot, and that the only difference between a mythic raider and someone who struggles with WQ is the mythic raider is a "no lifer" who has lots of spare time - these delusional individuals genuinely believe they are just as skilled at the game as a mythic raider, but just dont have as much time to play the game.

[Tadkins]

I mean, WoW is WoW. What do you expect? It's not "Shadowlands thing".

BC and WotLK gave me the opportunity to earn resilience gear so I had the opportunity to fight back. Even late Vanilla had very good honor gear. I didn't feel as hopeless then as I do now.

[Gaidax]

BC and WotLK gave me the opportunity to earn resilience gear so I had the opportunity to fight back. Even late Vanilla had very good honor gear. I didn't feel as hopeless then as I do now.

Nyahahah. TBC fight back...

Yeah I remember people fighting back vs my lock. "Resilience will fix it" is almost a classic pvp meme for a reason. WoTLK probably was first time where it was not a complete steamroll vs everyone else for me as current content raider, but still about that.

Resilience was not bad, but hardly a real equalizer. There is a reason it's not really a thing anymore.

[Tadkins]

Nyahahah. TBC fight back... Yeah I remember people fighting back vs my lock. "Resilience will fix it" is almost a classic pvp meme for a reason. WoTLK probably was first time where it was not a complete steamroll vs everyone else for me as current content raider, but still about that.

My main was a rogue in BC and toward the end I had full Vengeful Glad and a pair of decent maces. I don't remember doing too badly in BGs and WPvP.

[arkanon]

BC and WotLK gave me the opportunity to earn resilience gear so I had the opportunity to fight back. Even late Vanilla had very good honor gear. I didn't feel as hopeless then as I do now.

And so did every other player - this isnt an advantage to you - the fact you think it was shows an extreme lack of understanding of how gear works. You had 500 resil so you could fight back? good for you! everyone else had 500 resil as well, and those skilled players? they had 1000 resil, so you still got stomped just as badly, if not worse.

You dont seem to understand very simple concepts like thsi - although the numbers are clearly made up, the point is valid - everyone having resil and no one having resil is the same net result.

[Gaidax]

My main was a rogue in BC and toward the end I had full Vengeful Glad and a pair of decent mages. I don't remember doing too badly in BGs and WPvP.

And you would not be bad now, considering PvP literally the quickest way to get powerful gear in Shadowlands. Not even kidding, as mythic raiders my guild first time ever did organized PvP just to get a silly 1800 rating because it legit outright gave you ilvl 220 gear of your choice for what amounted a day of work total to get from 0 to 1800 in rated BGs. That's when Mythic Raids drop 226. KEKW.

Besides wPvP and random BGs, lulw. As usual it's filled with nothing but randos you fold in couple of casts.

[jazen]

So just to be clear - WoW does have a system of pvp ratings, which you actively choose not to participate, and then ask them to introduce a pvp rating system? But, you want it to be VASTLY inferior, and easily exploited? What is stopping a glad from equipping lower ilvl gear and absolutely stomping you? You do realise that in similar gear, a skilled player would still utterly destroy you, right?

I have seen multiple people make this idiotic claim that the only difference between an LFR hero and a world first mythic raider is, and i quote: "their ability to put up with elitist assholes and get carried through mythic". This is the actual thought process of some of the people in this very thread "i am just as good as a world first raider, and deserve the same gear - they are no better than me at the game, they are just elitist".

What i see here is some individuals wishing for their own progression path beyond what exists in the game - like dungeon sets in TBC - or something i have advocated for since forever ago - it can even have bonuses similar to the covenant gear, but stronger - reduced hearths, faster mount speed, flight whistle, a second hearth location, etc etc - stuff to allow them to be more efficient and powerful in their chosen pursuit - no worries at all.

The other thing i see is delusional people who believe they DESERVE mythic loot, and that the only difference between a mythic raider and someone who struggles with WQ is the mythic raider is a "no lifer" who has lots of spare time - these delusional individuals genuinely believe they are just as skilled at the game as a mythic raider, but just dont have as much time to play the game.

He's asking for non-rated pvp (random bg's) to not have those that do rated pvp have such a decided advantage in non-rated content via templates or ilvl restrictions.

[Tadkins]

And you would not be bad now, considering PvP literally the quickest way to get powerful gear in Shadowlands. Not even kidding, as mythic raiders my guild first time ever did organized PvP just to get a silly 1800 rating because it legit outright gave you 220 gear of your choice.

Besides wPvP and random BGs, lulw. As usual it's filled with nothing but randos you fold in couple of casts.

How much of a chance would I have as a 200 player vs a 226 player in a random BG? With no resilience we are back to the days of raiders dominating PvP.

[arkanon]

And you would not be bad now, considering PvP literally the quickest way to get powerful gear in Shadowlands. Not even kidding.

Besides wPvP and random BGs, lulw. As usual it's filled with nothing but randos you fold in couple of casts.

Just remember, the person you are talking to has not played SL at all - they are still in BfA, and have based their perception of SL on some forum posts and extrapolated this weird "reality" where 220ilvl mages are queuing for normal raids blocking spots for other people, multi glad players are running around BGs 1 shotting everyone, and no one can stop them, because no one can get any gear, so everyone should have 226 gear so they can be competitive.

- - - Updated - - -

He's asking for non-rated pvp (random bg's) to not have those that do rated pvp have such a decided advantage in non-rated content via templates or ilvl restrictions.

Hes asking for people not willing to put any effort into the game to have gear competitive with those who do - without realizing those players would still stomp his head in in pvp.

- - - Updated - - -

How much of a chance would I have as a 200 player vs a 226 player in a random BG? With no resilience we are back to the days of raiders dominating PvP.

Sigh - again - if resil was in the game, it wouldnt be just you who had resil - the 226 player in the random bg would not only have the same resil as you, but MORE - making the gap even larger.

[Gaidax]

How much of a chance would I have as a 200 player vs a 226 player in a random BG? With no resilience we are back to the days of raiders dominating PvP.

I mean, as much of a chance you would ever have as undergeared noob vs fully geared person at the end of tier?

The difference is - you'd get your face pounded for couple of days, collect your teeth, your honor and your rating (until like 1600 rating you don't even lose rating and every win is like ~100-200 rating) and get a bunch of PvP gear that's just sitting there at the vendor and suddenly it's not that bad.

You know, just like your vaunted resilience - you actually had to get the gear, as usual. Just that now you legit get it thrown in your face.

--

You need 1600 rating to buy 213 gear and the way SL works, difference between full set of 213 and 226 gear is not really that much. 5% give or take and 1600 rating... that's like peanuts, if you are any good you claim to be, you'd get that in matter of days going slow and relaxed.

When my guild did PvP BG runs - we got it legit in like 4 hours from everyone at 0, I think.

[AcidicSyn]

Just remember, the person you are talking to has not played SL at all - they are still in BfA, and have based their perception of SL on some forum posts and extrapolated this weird "reality" where 220ilvl mages are queuing for normal raids blocking spots for other people, multi glad players are running around BGs 1 shotting everyone, and no one can stop them, because no one can get any gear, so everyone should have 226 gear so they can be competitive.

- - - Updated - - -



Hes asking for people not willing to put any effort into the game to have gear competitive with those who do - without realizing those players would still stomp his head in in pvp.

- - - Updated - - -



Sigh - again - if resil was in the game, it wouldnt be just you who had resil - the 226 player in the random bg would not only have the same resil as you, but MORE - making the gap even larger.

My mains a mage. I'm going to resub, get to 220, and start applying to every normal raid I see with "Sup Ark?" as my note.




lol yeah no I'm jk

[Tadkins]

I mean, as much of a chance you would ever have as undergeared noob vs fully geared person at the end of tier?

The difference is - you'd get your face pounded for couple of days, collect your teeth, your honor and your rating and get a bunch of PvP gear that's just sitting there at the vendor and suddenly it's not that bad.

You know, just like your vaunted resilience - you actually had to get the gear, as usual. Just that now you legit get it thrown in your face.

Difference is, with resilience you did not die as fast and you had a chance to fight back, survive long enough to learn something, and possibly win. And my resilience geared player vs a pure Sunwell PvE hardcore raider would win hands down. Even vs top gladiators in Brutal gear, my Vengeful geared rogue would not go down so easily.

It was fun and even my no-rating rogue still felt like he had a place in the game.

[chiddie]

Currently not subbed due to computer problems so my main is still at 50. Just going by the system as read from afar. Folks here seem to think that you can't know how the state of the game is unless you are playing with a sub lols. Videos, fansites and forums do exist.

But anyway the system seems to ooze nothing but contempt from the Blizz devs for those not in organized content. And as clear from this thread the community doesn't have a high opinion of people like me either. So it makes me wonder if I really should come back once my computer is fixed.

The difference between 200 and 226 seems pretty big and it probably would just get me instagibbed in BGs. How would someone like me be able to find that fun? 40 plus pages of asking this question and still no answer.

Since you have still to try and see what happens by yourself I guess that if someone with around ilvl 200 that does al lot of random bgs doesn’t pop out, there’s no answer atm. I myself have been around 200 for quite a time but only did M+ so I have no idea about rbgs. Also, the more time passes, the more people gear up so it’s unfortunately easier to find good geared ppl even in rbgs.

I don’t know how much time has still to pass before your pc issues will be solved but at this point given you have also to do the 50-60 part (for the first time i guess?) if you wanna resub just take your time to level up and wait for 9.1 to land in order to catch up with gear faster than today.

[arkanon]

Difference is, with resilience you did not die as fast and you had a chance to fight back, survive long enough to learn something, and possibly win. And my resilience geared player vs a pure Sunwell PvE hardcore raider would win hands down. Even vs top gladiators in Brutal gear, my Vengeful geared rogue would not go down so easily.

You are delusional - this wasnt and isnt reality. I cannot for the life of me understand why you think this is how it went down. You know that resil you keep talking about giving you an advantage? EVERYONE ELSE HAD IT TOO!. Why cant you get that through your head?

"My casual bg geared rogue used to go toe to toe with Glads! now, in this expansion i havnt even played, i dont stand a chance!"

[AcidicSyn]

I mean, as much of a chance you would ever have as undergeared noob vs fully geared person at the end of tier?

The difference is - you'd get your face pounded for couple of days, collect your teeth, your honor and your rating (until like 1600 rating you don't even lose rating and every win is like ~100-200 rating) and get a bunch of PvP gear that's just sitting there at the vendor and suddenly it's not that bad.

You know, just like your vaunted resilience - you actually had to get the gear, as usual. Just that now you legit get it thrown in your face.

--

You need 1600 rating to buy 213 gear and the way SL works, difference between full set of 213 and 226 gear is not really that much. 5% give or take and 1600 rating... that's like peanuts, if you are any good you claim to be, you'd get that in matter of days.

I wish we could actually collect teeth. Like old AV but it stays with you. One of my favorite things about my first MMO (Ultima online) was collecting trophies in pvp and decorating my house with them.

Okay maybe not my favorite thing but it was fun. Though I guess its pointless without somewhere to display them.

[Gaidax]

Difference is, with resilience you did not die as fast and you had a chance to fight back, survive long enough to learn something, and possibly win. And my resilience geared player vs a pure Sunwell PvE hardcore raider would win hands down. Even vs top gladiators in Brutal gear, my Vengeful geared rogue would not go down so easily.

It was fun and even my no-rating rogue still felt like he had a place in the game.

PvP gear, unlike PvE one has shitton of Versatility on every piece and you get trinket set for honor that boosts that Versatility by 40%.

I mean, if you want to look for excuses, sure thing go for it. But if you'd play SL you'd know that.