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  1. #1

    Lightbulb The pressing need of massive reform on the basic level of governance in America

    America is becoming more and more polarized. This process is expected to accelerate. The left is becoming more and more extreme. Conservatives move somewhat towards the right when compared to conservatives in the 1990s. Libertarians lack a state, this needs to be addressed, I would like someone to represent my values. But in general, it makes no sense whatsoever to have hard left and hard right wingers in the same state. Break states apart, give 'em more freedom, and let there be conservative states, and if leftists want a super progressive state, let them deal with that.

    Somethings I want to see:

    I think we should really consider redrawing of borders. I propose we draw state lines based on how liberal or conservative a community is. I also propose giving states substantially more rights in terms of how they govern. Maybe there could be as many as 100-150 states by the time this process is over. Some might merge in with other states like the rural areas of Oregon merging with Idaho. Other areas like southern Texas are better off becoming their own state which would be blue. Florida could easily be split into 5 states.



    Let states decide abortion laws. Because states would be much smaller, you can simply drive to another state to get an abortion if you live in a state that criminalized it. I'm strongly in favor of keeping abortion legal, but states should be allowed to make their laws.

    Overturn Kennedy v. Louisiana. Whether aggravated rape of a child is punishable by the death penalty or not should be up to the states to decide. Even as someone who strongly opposes the death penalty mostly because 1-4% of the time the person is innocent, I recognize that if it's not taking place in my state, it's absolutely none of my business.

    Loosen the 8th amendment a bit, allow for death penalties that are painful on the condition they are reserved for the absolute worst of the worst (Kennedy in example above), and as long as the executions are not too extreme. Slow suffocation that takes 8 minutes to kill would be acceptable, burning someone alive would not be. Allow states to distribute/livestream recordings of such executions for public viewing.

    Amend extradition treaties between states. Because we will be giving states far more leeway in terms of how they punish criminals, states should be able to refuse extradition and try the convict in their own state if they believe the offender will face cruel and unusual punishment.

    Relook at the hundreds of thousands of random regulations that stifle businesses on the federal level, start removing pointless regulations that don't make us safe.

    A new law in which the federal government agrees not to seek the death penalty in a state where the death penalty is illegal. They can (and should) still be allowed to seek such penalty if the offense took place in a death penalty state.

    Let states change the agreement between Federal And State level so that State law trumps federal law if they choose to. Let voters decide and if a supermajority of 60% of voters consent, the agreement will be changed. After this change, If a state has not banned a certain weapon, but the feds have, it is legal in that state. If both state and federal has banned the weapon, than it would be banned. For liberal states, this would mean if you legalized marijuana, you are no longer in conflict with federal law as State law now trumps Federal law, as long as you had the supermajority vote to change the agreement from Fed > State to State > Fed.

    Federal government will still be in charge of maintaining the border, national security, and collecting the funds for it.
    Last edited by Sole-Warrior; 2021-04-10 at 06:45 AM.

  2. #2
    Being this fixated on governments being able to murder its citizens isn't healthy.

    And a desire to have your human rights fluctuate based solely on some imaginary line on a map is ridiculous.

  3. #3
    I think it fairly obvious what happens in extreme splits -

    Extreme Left Wing States
    - Idealistic society where society has a high sense of morales
    - Generous welfare state that attracts the downtrodden and homeless
    - Tax revenue dries up due to anti-business politics and civilian high state dependency
    - Society eats itself from inside out
    - Ends with the elites moving to an extreme right wing society and the downtrodden living on rats


    Extreme Right Wing Society
    - Pragmatic society stemming from raw innovation
    - Only the strong survive, the weak have no place
    - Huge tax revenue that enables poaching of public sector servants from the extreme left society. Although they are loathed to be here.
    - Society regenerates based on eating the weak
    - Ends with elites leaving based on the innovations they have created and the weak seeking shelter in the extreme left wing society


    Recognition that society needs the best of both extremes is something that today's divided people don't understand nor recognise.
    Last edited by Wingitwongit; 2021-04-10 at 07:20 AM.

  4. #4
    This happens every few decades. This is just the modern version of the religious right losing its strangle hold. It will settle down in a few more years once the new power block settles itself.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    This happens every few decades. This is just the modern version of the religious right losing its strangle hold. It will settle down in a few more years once the new power block settles itself.
    Until people realise that stability is key and something (such as religion) is implemented again to bring people back together.

    It's like a pendulum. Always has been, always will be.

  6. #6
    That would only result in it accelerating to the point where there would be absolutely no unity, and it would mean it would need to be fractured into nations at some point, because there is no capability to keep working together, because you are diametrical opposites. Which, I don't think people fully comprehend just how powerful and economically enriching it is to have a strong front of united states.

    But ya know, if you prefer guns over food, or weed over food, go for it; fucking more prosperity for the rest of us who can function like adult nations.

    Loosen the 8th amendment a bit, allow for death penalties that are painful on the condition they are reserved for the absolute worst of the worst (Kennedy in example above), and as long as the executions are not too extreme. Slow suffocation that takes 8 minutes to kill would be acceptable, burning someone alive would not be. Allow states to distribute/livestream recordings of such executions for public viewing.
    Also I am not sure it is a good idea to include a reasoning for the split to be because some people get a stiffy off watching people being tortured to death. That's generally advised against.
    Last edited by Howel; 2021-04-10 at 11:11 AM.
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  7. #7
    You people just need to take a massive chill pill, that all.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Wingitwongit View Post
    I think it fairly obvious what happens in extreme splits -

    Extreme Left Wing States
    - Idealistic society where society has a high sense of morales
    - Generous welfare state that attracts the downtrodden and homeless
    - Tax revenue dries up due to anti-business politics and civilian high state dependency
    - Society eats itself from inside out
    - Ends with the elites moving to an extreme right wing society and the downtrodden living on rats


    Extreme Right Wing Society
    - Pragmatic society stemming from raw innovation
    - Only the strong survive, the weak have no place
    - Huge tax revenue that enables poaching of public sector servants from the extreme left society. Although they are loathed to be here.
    - Society regenerates based on eating the weak
    - Ends with elites leaving based on the innovations they have created and the weak seeking shelter in the extreme left wing society
    Yes hello, Ayn Rand would like you to stop copying her science fiction
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sole-Warrior View Post
    America is becoming more and more polarized. This process is expected to accelerate. The left is becoming more and more extreme. Conservatives move somewhat towards the right when compared to conservatives in the 1990s. Libertarians lack a state, this needs to be addressed, I would like someone to represent my values. But in general, it makes no sense whatsoever to have hard left and hard right wingers in the same state. Break states apart, give 'em more freedom, and let there be conservative states, and if leftists want a super progressive state, let them deal with that.

    Somethings I want to see:

    I think we should really consider redrawing of borders. I propose we draw state lines based on how liberal or conservative a community is. I also propose giving states substantially more rights in terms of how they govern. Maybe there could be as many as 100-150 states by the time this process is over. Some might merge in with other states like the rural areas of Oregon merging with Idaho. Other areas like southern Texas are better off becoming their own state which would be blue. Florida could easily be split into 5 states.



    Let states decide abortion laws. Because states would be much smaller, you can simply drive to another state to get an abortion if you live in a state that criminalized it. I'm strongly in favor of keeping abortion legal, but states should be allowed to make their laws.

    Overturn Kennedy v. Louisiana. Whether aggravated rape of a child is punishable by the death penalty or not should be up to the states to decide. Even as someone who strongly opposes the death penalty mostly because 1-4% of the time the person is innocent, I recognize that if it's not taking place in my state, it's absolutely none of my business.

    Loosen the 8th amendment a bit, allow for death penalties that are painful on the condition they are reserved for the absolute worst of the worst (Kennedy in example above), and as long as the executions are not too extreme. Slow suffocation that takes 8 minutes to kill would be acceptable, burning someone alive would not be. Allow states to distribute/livestream recordings of such executions for public viewing.

    Amend extradition treaties between states. Because we will be giving states far more leeway in terms of how they punish criminals, states should be able to refuse extradition and try the convict in their own state if they believe the offender will face cruel and unusual punishment.

    Relook at the hundreds of thousands of random regulations that stifle businesses on the federal level, start removing pointless regulations that don't make us safe.

    A new law in which the federal government agrees not to seek the death penalty in a state where the death penalty is illegal. They can (and should) still be allowed to seek such penalty if the offense took place in a death penalty state.

    Let states change the agreement between Federal And State level so that State law trumps federal law if they choose to. Let voters decide and if a supermajority of 60% of voters consent, the agreement will be changed. After this change, If a state has not banned a certain weapon, but the feds have, it is legal in that state. If both state and federal has banned the weapon, than it would be banned. For liberal states, this would mean if you legalized marijuana, you are no longer in conflict with federal law as State law now trumps Federal law, as long as you had the supermajority vote to change the agreement from Fed > State to State > Fed.

    Federal government will still be in charge of maintaining the border, national security, and collecting the funds for it.
    Texas went hard red to red-blue from interstate moves. Aka they gained population from other states that voted more Democrat. It’s a growth equation and not one that gets solved long term by making new states which reflect today’s partisan affiliation.

    Red-blue on binary choices are dumb. When you have two choices, which you pick reduces maybe 20 or 30 things you vote on to just one slate of two. It’s not a good way of party preference, and is faulty in hating the other guy rather than loving your choice.

    Libertarians ... don’t get a state in this regime? Where are y’all concentrated enough to hold sway over anything? Or, to put it a different way, where would the yellow emerge in your map?

    I’m not on “state law trumps federal law.” I’m into amendments limiting federal law to only post-civil war stuff like poll taxes and grandfather rule. I’d like stronger amendments than the 10th saying the subjects that the fed have no business telling the states what to do. Your heart is probably in the right place for tending to side with the states over the fed, even if we can’t agree.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Libertarians ... don’t get a state in this regime? Where are y’all concentrated enough to hold sway over anything? Or, to put it a different way, where would the yellow emerge in your map?
    Fairly sure giving libertarians a state for themselves would somehow be a war crime or crime against humanity; knowingly doing that is an evil unprecedented in quite a few decades
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sole-Warrior View Post
    Somethings I want to see:

    I think we should really consider redrawing of borders. I propose we draw state lines based on how liberal or conservative a community is.
    So a nation wide version of gerrymandering? xD

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sole-Warrior View Post
    America is becoming more and more polarized. This process is expected to accelerate. The left is becoming more and more extreme. Conservatives move somewhat towards the right when compared to conservatives in the 1990s. Libertarians lack a state, this needs to be addressed, I would like someone to represent my values. But in general, it makes no sense whatsoever to have hard left and hard right wingers in the same state. Break states apart, give 'em more freedom, and let there be conservative states, and if leftists want a super progressive state, let them deal with that.

    Somethings I want to see:

    I think we should really consider redrawing of borders. I propose we draw state lines based on how liberal or conservative a community is. I also propose giving states substantially more rights in terms of how they govern. Maybe there could be as many as 100-150 states by the time this process is over. Some might merge in with other states like the rural areas of Oregon merging with Idaho. Other areas like southern Texas are better off becoming their own state which would be blue. Florida could easily be split into 5 states.



    Let states decide abortion laws. Because states would be much smaller, you can simply drive to another state to get an abortion if you live in a state that criminalized it. I'm strongly in favor of keeping abortion legal, but states should be allowed to make their laws.

    Overturn Kennedy v. Louisiana. Whether aggravated rape of a child is punishable by the death penalty or not should be up to the states to decide. Even as someone who strongly opposes the death penalty mostly because 1-4% of the time the person is innocent, I recognize that if it's not taking place in my state, it's absolutely none of my business.

    Loosen the 8th amendment a bit, allow for death penalties that are painful on the condition they are reserved for the absolute worst of the worst (Kennedy in example above), and as long as the executions are not too extreme. Slow suffocation that takes 8 minutes to kill would be acceptable, burning someone alive would not be. Allow states to distribute/livestream recordings of such executions for public viewing.

    Amend extradition treaties between states. Because we will be giving states far more leeway in terms of how they punish criminals, states should be able to refuse extradition and try the convict in their own state if they believe the offender will face cruel and unusual punishment.

    Relook at the hundreds of thousands of random regulations that stifle businesses on the federal level, start removing pointless regulations that don't make us safe.

    A new law in which the federal government agrees not to seek the death penalty in a state where the death penalty is illegal. They can (and should) still be allowed to seek such penalty if the offense took place in a death penalty state.

    Let states change the agreement between Federal And State level so that State law trumps federal law if they choose to. Let voters decide and if a supermajority of 60% of voters consent, the agreement will be changed. After this change, If a state has not banned a certain weapon, but the feds have, it is legal in that state. If both state and federal has banned the weapon, than it would be banned. For liberal states, this would mean if you legalized marijuana, you are no longer in conflict with federal law as State law now trumps Federal law, as long as you had the supermajority vote to change the agreement from Fed > State to State > Fed.

    Federal government will still be in charge of maintaining the border, national security, and collecting the funds for it.
    Yeah, how bout no. Literally nothing in your rant will EVER happen.

  13. #13
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    This is a thread about bias and not being popular... just FYI

    Quote Originally Posted by Wingitwongit View Post
    Extreme Right Wing Society
    - Pragmatic society stemming from raw innovation
    See... People who banned stem cell research, pushed a malaria drug for covid, and deny basic scientific concepts... are right wing...

    The only thing that’s extremely obvious here, is that you should probably ask someone else, before thinking you have a great idea.

    FYI... the father of pragmatism is a liberal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dewey

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedSkull View Post
    So a nation wide version of gerrymandering? xD
    Worse... separate, but equal... they have been convinced to hate fellow Americans. Conservatives keep asking to run away from fellow Americans, while somehow thinking that’s pragmatic... not just childish...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    This is just the modern version of the religious right losing its strangle hold.
    They didn’t lose their stranglehold on GOP... without it, it would be a lot easier to disregard a lot of GOP, as just childhood fantasy. How are Lola Bunny boobs going? How about Dr Susse? Sh’ra boobs?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Yeah, how bout no. Literally nothing in your rant will EVER happen.
    Something to point out... How many of the extreme left, are demanding the destruction of America through partitions?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wingitwongit View Post
    Until people realise that stability is key and something (such as religion) is implemented again to bring people back together.

    It's like a pendulum. Always has been, always will be.
    Do you convert or do I get converted... why am I even asking... schnell!!!!

    Who could have fathomed that stability does not come from infrastructure or the support of middle class. It comes from social media obsession and what ever kink makes the conservatives demand sexualization of cartoons... conservative pragmatism, seems to be not too far off from furries.
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-04-10 at 11:40 AM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post

    How many of the extreme left, are demanding the destruction of America through partitions?
    "Something something those kids in college want safe spaces and segregated dorms something something!!! That proves it!!!"

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sole-Warrior View Post
    The left is becoming more and more extreme. Conservatives move somewhat towards the right when compared to conservatives in the 1990s.
    At least you made it short. After these it was a completely safe bet it's to be followed by BS. Saves time. Good read there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Who could have fathomed that stability does not come from infrastructure or the support of middle class. It comes from social media obsession and what ever kink makes the conservatives demand sexualization of cartoons... conservative pragmatism, seems to be not too far off from furries.
    Why do you hate that us conservatives trying to mass appeal and respect people's sexual preference?
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  17. #17
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    "Something something those kids in college want safe spaces and segregated dorms something something!!! That proves it!!!"
    Just to point this out... Biden nor Democrats nor “MSM”, are fighting back or even initiating this culture war about cartoon boobs. Despite end to end coverage by conservative media... Democrat legislators have been focused on covid relief that goes to American people, instead of corporations. The investment in infrastructure, to help mitigate wild fires and energy problems we encountered. Outside of those who own the rights to these cartoons or child books, there is no push back from the left. Just... lulz...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Howel View Post
    Why do you hate that us conservatives trying to mass appeal and respect people's sexual preference?
    Q sent me...

    #pragmatism
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Just to point this out... Biden nor Democrats nor “MSM”, are fighting back or even initiating this culture war about cartoon boobs. Despite end to end coverage by conservative media... Democrat legislators have been focused on covid relief that goes to American people, instead of corporations. The investment in infrastructure, to help mitigate wild fires and energy problems we encountered. Outside of those who own the rights to these cartoons or child books, there is no push back from the left. Just... lulz...
    It is actually kind of weird, that there is a sort of liberal movement in culture and entertainment media; that the more liberal party doesn't really have anything to do with, and honestly don't touch much upon. But they do get blamed for it, and people vote in opposition, as if that'd really help.
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  19. #19
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Display your fucking pragmatism, my ‘let’s separate the libs and cons’ friends... fuck... just toss words around because they sound good? Nothing said by “conservatives” in this thread, has this far been pragmatic. The entire concept of the OP, is just an inch away from Jewish lasers burning California...

    You know... it’s a lot like screaming you are being censored, on the highest rated cable news network.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Howel View Post
    Yes hello, Ayn Rand would like you to stop copying her science fiction
    Never heard of her.

    I don't doubt my political views have been shaped from the wider society though. (Everybody's has).

    But i promise you i copied that text from no-one.

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