I don't think @Tziva says anything more in pugs either. What exactly is there to talk about in a group filled with random strangers who all just want to finish their dungeon and move on? Pugging is not a replacement for guilds and communities. You talk about the dungeon, the route, when to use lust, etc. You beat the dungeon and if it was a good group, someone might link their key and ask if people want to do another one. What exactly are people supposed to talk about? The weather?
They are not even undergeared. Good players were doing +10 keys in 180 gear at the beginning of the expansion. Players have just gotten so used to outgear content because of Titanforing that they lost all sense of appropriate gear levels. People think they need to be 220 ilvl to complete heroic raids and +15 keys. A group of good players can easily complete a +10 key in 180 gear and a +15 in 200 gear.
Yes, I predicted this reply
Luckily enough I understood with time that 9 on 10 when I pug others keys, I’m usually not the issue.
The % of failures with others keys grew dramatically when I reached 13-14 bracket, before it was a little lower (would say around 30%).
Ah, it’s not pertinent to this reply in particular but if Blizzard implements rio it would be nice to see also rio of the other members of the group you’re signing up besides the key holder, a lot of times I joined a supposedly 1200 rio group to see that only the key holder had that rio and many others were way below, probably friends or guildies searching for a carry.
You don't have to talk about the weather.. the question is how you treat the other players. Do you enjoy playing with them or are they just "a necessary evil" to complete content.
This is why I wanted to distinguish between the type of pugging you talk about and the type of pugging @Tziva talks about... because they are two very different experiences. And the toxic and harmful environments develops when people only view each other as tools to complete content.
1400 io is very low so that makes sense.
This right here is a major issue in pugging. People think they are not part of the issue but in reality they are. People think they do the mechanics in the right way but in reality they don't. And because people don't communicate they never learn. They keep on making the same small mistakes because they are not corrected by anyone. A lot of toxicity comes from this because people are trying to put the blame on other players when they themselves are doing the mechanics wrong. But they just don't know any better.
We did +15s week 2 of the xpac. We do 15s on freshly dinged alts now. Gear is rarely the issue.
I personally enjoy doing dungeons because I love healing. I chitchat before, if possible during and always after the run (if it ends, whatever the result) but most people are not interested.
Due to having to beat the timer to succeed, it’s usually a standard gogogogogogogo run with some casual “bl now plz” and nothing more.
I won’t blame the players only, though, this “players=bots” behavior is caused and encouraged by the game before than by the players.
If you are failing 50%, you are the common denominator. Its either your skill in the dungeon, your skill at selecting groups to join, or your skill at selecting teammates to invite. Find out which is the problem and fix it. Most players do not fail 50%. Thats a huge red flag
Last edited by ellieg; 2021-04-16 at 11:37 AM.
I have an age and I am very critical about myself. I ran some guild runs also and the first times I was very worried about me being the issue after all, but I’ve always timed them and I’ve been always told I was perfectly fine (I’m new to the guild, they have no interest in tell me I’m good if I’m bad).
Of course I am far from being perfect and I make my mistakes but when you see at the end of the run that you failed it with only 1 wipe and all the dps with a whooping 3.5k average in a +14, it’s quite clear why we didn’t make it in time. And I can assure you that 9 on 10 of my non timed run are due to dps not dpsing.
Well you are allowed to think that. And I'm not sure if it's the majority, but it's a major part nonetheless. And the rest of the players are then victims to the toxic behavior of that major part. That's why I always tell people who are actually interested in the social aspects of the game to join a guild (or some other type of community).
Since I pug 99%, it’s usually the second. Unfortunately I cannot be too picky, if I see a 13-14 I need and the group maker has a reasonable rio I apply. I can’t play enough to be too choosy, that’s also why I’m a healer (less queues). I can usually afford one run per session, that’s also why my fail % is so high.
I would love being able to run 5 M+ per day and possibly within my guild only, but it’s just not possible.
you will never get better at this game or anything in life, honestly, if you just point your finger away and blame others. With everything that happens, you can always look back and reflect on what mistakes you made. A few days ago I was in NW+14 with my rshaman alt. The tank didn't kite the hard hitting abomination trash and ate one armor crushing hit after the next one and eventually died because he was unhealable. Whose fault was it? His obviously, he didn't kite and let the stacks fall off. But I also didn't use my Spirit Link Totem which would've easily saved him. So it was my fault as much as his. Honestly, even more than his. He died while I had unused cooldowns.
I can guarantee you, if you recorded your gameplay and uploaded it, you'd find plenty of mistakes that you didn't even realize you were making while playing. You are so focused on all the mistakes the others make, you don't see your own.
My 212 resto druid is in that range and I'm no where near 50% fail rate. Especially when you are doing 14s, you get all the higher players looking for easy vaults. Ya the 13s are hard but not 50% fail hard. Only if that's your skill cap like you said, which is what I think he needs to own up to, instead of blaming it on everyone else. Especially since he's mentioned failing easy mechanics multiple times.