PvP ilvl changes S2

[arkanon]

Are you happy with this change? Do you think it will curb the issues presented by S1 with PvE players using PvP as their primary gearing method? Are there any issues you see arising from this?

[Gaidax]

I think it's good. First time in many years we hit PvP in RBGs during early progression for 1800 rating and easy 220 gear, too easy really.

Gladly the change means we won't need to waste our time with that nonsense again.

[Argorwal]

Are you happy with this change? Do you think it will curb the issues presented by S1 with PvE players using PvP as their primary gearing method? Are there any issues you see arising from this?

No this is dumb.

It doesn’t solve the issue of massive gear gap from entry level PvP gear to cap, and fighting 220+ geared players in the 1200 bracket.

It makes the vault awful, since now you have to pick the PvE item since it’s better for PvE and gimp a week of PvP or vice versa.

They just need to make honor gear scale to 213 in PvP and conquest gear scale to 226.

Then let the bracket thresholds be for the items PvE level.

This also keeps participation higher which is something every ladder based game needs.

Blizz just has a boner for making sure raid loggers don’t feel “forced” to do anything.

[arkanon]

No this is dumb.

It doesn’t solve the issue of massive gear gap from entry level PvP gear to cap, and fighting 220+ geared players in the 1200 bracket.

How would you solve this issue? Have players be forced to play in a bracket that represents their highest rating for that season?

[Soisoisoi]

How would you solve this issue? Have players be forced to play in a bracket that represents their highest rating for that season?

Making the ilvl scale higher in PvP is good - it means PvP gear will be the best in PvP, and PvE players won't feel forced to PvP if they don't want to. This unfortunately doesn't change the bigger issue that is the massive gear disparity between players at lower ratings. Having better gear because you got better rating is absolutely stupid in a PvP environment and does nothing but make the game awful for new players/alts etc.

They just need to make Conquest gear a singular ilvl as it has been in the past, basically take the WoD system they are trying to copy - except do it FULLY and not half of it which doesn't work.

[Argorwal]

How would you solve this issue? Have players be forced to play in a bracket that represents their highest rating for that season?

Honor gear is 213 in PvP.

Conquest gear is 226 in PvP.

Like WoD.

Make the rating brackets be for its PvE item level.

[Relapses]

As close to a compromise that we'll get from Blizzard. This will, at the very least, make it so that PvEers are less compelled to PvP; they killed two birds with one stone: There will be fewer people in the high-MMR brackets (as was tradition) and PvP gear will still be powerful in its intended content.

This is a direct nerf to people who enjoyed both high-end PvP and PvE, though, so I can see why some people's jimmies are rustled. To those who claim they enjoyed both, I have only one question:



...did you though?

[ashblond]

Instead of separating PvP/PvE gear, the solution is very simple: merging PvE and PvP currencies.

Current PvP vendor is simply gear vendor, because those gear are not really PvP only, despite their name “aspirant/gladiator”.

They work in both PvE and PvP. That is why PvEers want them. And this is not a problem.

PvEers are forced to do PvP, because PvE contents don’t give currency to buy those gear. That is the real problem.

So, the solution is simple: Let PvE contents also reward the same currency.

If random dungeons/M+/raids also reward honor/conquest, PvEers will not be forced to PvP. They would farm the currency from PvE contents instead of flooding PvP contents which they hate.

PvE and PvP contents should reward the same currency for buying the same gear. And players can choose what content they prefer to do: PvE, PvP, or a mix of both, to gain the same currency.

There is no need to separate PvP/PvE gear. What we need is merging PvP/PvE currencies.

[arkanon]

As close to a compromise that we'll get from Blizzard. This will, at the very least, make it so that PvEers are less compelled to PvP; they killed two birds with one stone: There will be fewer people in the high-MMR brackets (as was tradition) and PvP gear will still be powerful in its intended content.

This is a direct nerf to people who enjoyed both high-end PvP and PvE, though, so I can see why some people's jimmies are rustled. To those who claim they enjoyed both, I have only one question:



...did you though?

Yeah, to be fair, I didn't expect it to be universally applauded or anything, and as with my other recent threads I just find the entire topic quite interesting. I also think it is good to discuss these things - although some people do get pretty heated over something as trivial as loot in a game, the more people put their opinion forward, the higher the likelihood others will understand.

Personally, I gave up chasing the dragon YEARS ago, and am happy with the gear I get so long as it is comparable to the content that rewarded it.

- - - Updated - - -

Instead of separating PvP/PvE gear, the solution is very simple: merging PvE and PvP currencies.

Current PvP vendor is simply gear vendor, because those gear are not really PvP only, despite their name “aspirant/gladiator”.

They work in both PvE and PvP. That is why PvEers want them. And this is not a problem.

PvEers are forced to do PvP, because PvE contents don’t give currency to buy those gear. That is the real problem.

So, the solution is simple: Let PvE contents also reward the same currency.

If random dungeons/M+/raids also reward honor/conquest, PvEers will not be forced to PvP. They would farm the currency from PvE contents instead of flooding PvP contents which they hate.

PvE and PvP contents should reward the same currency for buying the same gear. And players can choose what content they prefer to do: PvE, PvP, or a mix of both, to gain the same currency.

There is no need to separate PvP/PvE gear. What we need is merging PvP/PvE currencies.

Not a bad idea at first glance, HOWEVER, people being people, it will be VERY quickly established what the most efficient (fastest and easiest) way to gather said currency is, and then everyone will complain they are "forced" to complete said content. It might end up being farming M+, or heroic, or M+5, or lfr, or random bgs, or arena - whatever - there WILL be a standout way of gathering said resource, and we are back to square one - pvpers "forced" to pve, or pve players "forced" to pvp.

[Tojara]

It's probably the best change we could've hoped for.

The only real issue I see (which was pointed out to be from another), is that if you enjoy both styles of content (mythic raiding, and PvP) the vault sort of works against you. The 252 loot from mythic raid vaults, or from doing 14s will always be superior (by 6 iLvLs if you can get duelist) in PvE, while the PvP vaults will be 246/259 at duelist, and 239/252 at 1800.

I don't think it's the end of world, but for those that enjoy both you literally have to choose where you want to scuff your advancement in the type of content you do by several weeks or more, by choosing where you want the -6/7 iLvL in the other type of content you enjoy (obviously this depends on how high of a bracket you can play at, or what level of PvE content you're clearing). It's also not as simple as I pointed out because it becomes increasingly likely as you gear up in either, that you would pick something from the the opposite pool you're typically focusing your progression on because of duplicates, or something you already had. Still, if you fill up all three slots in both types of content, this is fairly unlikely to happen (read unlikely, it will still happen) in the first month or so of a season.

The fix to this would be offering two vaults again (for PvP and PvE), but I doubt they go this route because it gives more loot than they probably intend, and it also sucks people who want nothing to do with PvP temporarily back into the PvP rabbit hole for the first month or so of a season.

[arkanon]

Early days for the poll with tiny sample size, but im surprised its as close as it is......will be interested to see how close it is in a couple of days.

[ellieg]

I'm happy. I dont pvp a lot. This season i hit 1400 to get 207 to supplement my gear in the beginning. I'd need to do 1600 to get the same equiv. Which I'm sure I could do but now I feel as though I dont have to put in the effort for the early season gear jump. Sucks for the ppl that sincerely enjoyed it tho. Amd hopefully the pure pvpers are happy with the slight advantage over the pure pvers

[Lost controller]

It is them trying to fix a problem they made. PvP didn't suddenly become super popular but rather gearing became to horrid from pve that pvers went into pvp.

Now they don't want to feel like people are forced to pvp for pve but rather then fix the drop rates they are going to gut pvp pissing of another crowd of people.

I swear blizzards approach to design is to antagonize as many people as possible.

[Toybox]

As a PvE player who used to PvP a lot but hasn't done much in recent years I really enjoyed the current season for filling in the blanks. Finding guildies to play with was a breeze & quite a few of us got 220/226/233 gear.

My only concerns related to S2 would've been how fast this gear could be acquired (like getting 233 weaps from the Vault after Heroic week was ridiculous) & how overrewarding RBGs were compared to arenas. I don't see the need to hit PvP item levels that hard, and I think it's only fair that people who do well in multiple competitive elements of the game should be rewarded as such.

I'd much rather they'd sorted out early gearing spikes rather than reverting to the whole WoD "your item is magically more powerful in PvP" nonsense.

Do you think it will curb the issues presented by S1 with PvE players using PvP as their primary gearing method?

For what it's worth, I think these issues have already been fixed with the Valor system & the upping of raid drops back to pre-SL levels. Yes, as it stands, Valor gear "only" goes up to 220, but if you're good enough to get 2.1k in arena I don't see why you shouldn't get gear that reflects that.

PvP gearing was only so common because PvE gear relied heavily on the Vault. Just (drastically) up the RBG requirements & make it so people can't get the absolutely highest iLvl from day one & we're good to go. Maybe cap heroic week to heroic iLvl PvP pieces, mythic week to mythic iLvl pieces, then the week after for the absolute top-tier item level items.

[Lochton]

Are you happy with this change? Do you think it will curb the issues presented by S1 with PvE players using PvP as their primary gearing method? Are there any issues you see arising from this?

Gotta try something.. Just wish they would make the aggressive cut already, make PvP gear lose rating by entering a PvE instance - then again, you would separate PvP'ers and PvE'ers much than necessary, which is the downside..

[Warning]

Pretty funny how they are passing off nerfing PVP'ers gear in PVE as doing them a favour.

[ReesePieces]

Pretty funny how they are passing off nerfing PVP'ers gear in PVE as doing them a favour.

But they aren't passing off the PvE nerf to the gear as the favor. The favor is increasing it to a maximum ilvl while in PvP that in UNOBTAINABLE with PvE gear.

If this was S1 gear then the Elite PvP Weapon at 233 ilvl would be 233 - 6 + 13 = 240 ilvl in PvP. So PvP will be the only way to access BiS gear for PvP, and PvE will be the only way to access BiS gear for PvE, but the gear will still be decent for either activity.

Are there other solutions that might be better? Yes. Is this better than it was before? Also yes.

[Warning]

But they aren't passing off the PvE nerf to the gear as the favor. The favor is increasing it to a maximum ilvl while in PvP that in UNOBTAINABLE with PvE gear.

If this was S1 gear then the Elite PvP Weapon at 233 ilvl would be 233 - 6 + 13 = 240 ilvl in PvP. So PvP will be the only way to access BiS gear for PvP, and PvE will be the only way to access BiS gear for PvE, but the gear will still be decent for either activity.

Are there other solutions that might be better? Yes. Is this better than it was before? Also yes.

PVP gear was already BiS in PVP to a degree that no one competent complained about PVE gear dominating PVP this season, so what you end up with is a net nerf to PVP gear in PVE and no other benefits. Don't really care much and I'm okay with it, I just think its funny that this change is aimed at nerfing PVP rewards in PVE, and packaged as something else.

[arkanon]

Are there other solutions that might be better? Yes.

Such as???

[ashblond]

Not a bad idea at first glance, HOWEVER, people being people, it will be VERY quickly established what the most efficient (fastest and easiest) way to gather said currency is, and then everyone will complain they are "forced" to complete said content. It might end up being farming M+, or heroic, or M+5, or lfr, or random bgs, or arena - whatever - there WILL be a standout way of gathering said resource, and we are back to square one - pvpers "forced" to pve, or pve players "forced" to pvp.

It is totally different from "forced".

Currenty PvE players are forced to PvP for vendor gear, because PvE contents don't reward honor/conquest. There is NO other choice.

Players will always find the most optimal way to farm currency, but they have a choice if they can get same currency from different contents.

Even if PvP is the most efficient way, and you are a PvE only player, you can still get the currency from PvE contents. It is slower, but obtainable.

Optimal way has always been there. You choose either the most efficient way, or the contents you like most. That is a choice to make, not a problem.

The problem right now is NO choice. Currency only comes from PvP.