Wow refugees, what are you enjoying about the game?

[Katchii]

It's there, but it's irrelevant. If a veteran doesn't somehow have the gear to meet it, they can just buy crafted gear, which is already better than the gear that drops.

If the intended goal of gearing up (outside of raiding), is to meet some arbitrary requirement, to do a dungeon that drops gear which is already inferior than the gear you attained/bought off the mb, then yeah, it's kind of useless.

When a dungeon comes out, outside of the msq, there is zero reason to go back there, to improve my character.

What gear are you talking about? I'm not really sure what point you're making.

My point is only that the gear you earn at max level is not useless, even if you feel the only thing "useful" about it is helping you hit some arbitrary ilevel requirement for a new dungeon or trial. I never said anything about dungeon gear specifically.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Ironically i find the opposite to be true. Not in a bad way, mind you. To give context: There i was happily wandering about this little fantasy universe with all its magical creatures and steampunk little addons settling into the universe of final fantasy (ive never played any other ff games before), and i get this cutscene. It's all giant spaceships and lazers and future tech (the intro to the empire).

Yeah, Final Fantasy had high sci fi stuff since the first game. In FF1, you're a D&D party travelling through a medieval fantasy world when you get teleported to an ancient space station in orbit. Part of the aesthetic.

One of the most common story setups of Final Fantasy games is "band of puny medieval kingdoms and rebels vs powerful magitek empire".

• This started with FF4, with the Kingdom of Baron building an airship fleet and using it to take over the world.

• In FF6, the Gestahlian Empire performs Unit 731 style horrific human experimentation trying to give people magical powers, and also has an advanced megalopolis capital city and builds mechas and stuff.

• In FF7, the Shinra Corporation is pretty much an empire, as they harvest the very lifeforce of the planet and used their monopoly on it to fund their conquests of other cities.

• In FF9 has two different empires: Lindblum, and Alexandria, with Lindblum being a more peaceful empire where 30 years ago, the king invented airships and built an airship fleet, and used it to force everyone else into submission. Alexandria resents Lindblum's control, and began unearthing ancient summoning magic to fight back (to be used by nuking enemy cities into submission).

• And you have FF12's Archadian empire, which is pretty much Rome but with magitek airships and mecha, and its armies are lead by judges and magistrates.

• FF8, FF10, FF13, and FF15 have empires too but they aren't really notable.

FF14's Garlean Empire seems to be most based off of FF12's Archadia (you have Judges Legates who wear scary cool armor leading armies, empire seems to be based off of Rome, being a republic that turned authoritarian. Also has a little bit of Gestahl thrown in there as they perform Unit 731 style horrific human experimentation trying to give magical powers to their soldiers.

Im baffled by the massive tonal shift. So much so, that i think 'i need to understand the lore'. So i watched a tonne of videos on ff lore trying to see how we ended up in this situation. It did not... go well. What i could glean from it all is that the games are only loosely tied together in some multi-dimensional universe where certain themes or characters or races all crop up, but that they exist in independent universes from one another. Not independent universes as in independent games, but actual independent universes within some single multidimensional universe. In some universes Cid is a sweet engineer who helps you out. In another, he's evil. And that this game is just one of those universes. I'm only 2/3rds through the heavensward 3.0 story, so perhaps the 2 expansions build on it. Or maybe they dont bother. (And honestly, they dont really need to. Its nice that anything can happen).

There isn't really a multiverse. The plots of the prior FF games aren't relevant to FF14 at all.




The only real thing that carries over from each Final Fantasy game is the joke character Gilgamesh. FF5 introduces an interdimmensional traveller named Gilgamesh, and he shows up in pretty much every game after FF5, and it's the same character. It's not like how in each game, there is a different character named Cid. The Gilgamesh you see in FF14 is the same guy who showed up in all the previous games since 1992 (though that's not really important because he never really talks about what happened in the previous games, nor is that really ever important. He's a joke character).

There is a spinoff game called "World of Final Fantasy", where characters from different FFs show up, but it's not really "canon". It's just a fun franchise spinoff game for FF fans. Same with the other crossover games like Dissidia.

In addition, i also think about the music in game. Sometimes its so high fantasy (Limsa Lominsa theme), which is so perfect and elegant and completely befitting that initial introduction of the world. Yet, as you go on, the butt-rock starts peeking through in your trials and boss fights. The game just refuses to get stuck in a theme.

The mixture of classical style orchestrated music with rock really began with FF7, and has become a staple of the franchise (and JRPGs as a whole).

Just this morning i had to check, because i was convinced that it had to be 2 different people writing it. But nope, turns out Soken did almost all of it.

So, for the first 9 FF games, the music was done by a guy called Nobuo Uematsu. Starting with FF10, Uematsu started taking a step back from FF. This was happening in the year 2000, when there were massive corporate changes going on behind the scenes at Square. Uematsu said that as a higher up, he was being dragged to more meetings and spending more time in meetings rather than actually composing music, thus that was one of the reasons why he eventually quit the company. But he still did music for Square's games after. Starting with FF10, other composers started doing stuff for the FF games.

When FF14 1.0 first released in 2010, Uematsu did the original soundtrack. However, after the failure of FF14, Yoshida took over, and FF14 was remade. It was decided that the old soundtrack was no longer suitable for the new vision of FF14, so Soken was brought on board and he created a new soundtrack. (Soken has said in interviews that he has assistants, but we don't know how much they're responsible for the game's soundtrack). Some of Uematsu's tracks are still used in the new FF14, though.

[ippollite]

It's lucky y'all are here. I was about to go off into lunacy meta-textual shenanigans.

ETA: Im near end point of heavensward and i dont believe you. Just so we're all clear. Shiva is life.

[ippollite]

Just finished the heavensward 3.0 storyline. Im feeling super loved up. Firstly, because i was spoiled by watching the february event: Estinian did nothing wrong.

Second, lets compare storylines thusfar. I get the love of heavensward. Even as someone playing it for the first time about 5 years after it was released.

The storyline is so much more... coherent? ARR story is a big bad empire attempting to conquer eorzea. Heavensward is more... constrained(?). It has more political intrigue on a much smaller immediate scale. Yet ties in with a far wider narrative (based on whatever soundbites ive accidentally bumped into over the past three months hinting at a deeper tale).

But they arent doing the same job. I really enjoyed the ARR storyline because it was simple fantasy: You are the hero standing against an empire and fixing everything. Its perfectly in keeping with a level 20 teleporting around the world to solve a problem with a race of flying cabbages. Why flying cabbages? Why not! I love those flying cabbages. They are so welcoming and friendly.

Heavensward is instead a tale of a war between dragons and humans (the ishgardians). Its about very human motivations with all their duplicity, double crossing and politicking. Its much more narrow. And yet broadens the cosmological scope of the meta narrative.

Both have their place. One indirectly introduces you to the world as it is. The other narrows the scope to focus on the wider narrative.

I like them both. A lot. Its not for everyone. Im a wow player. I would never say to asmon or preach, bell, or even my best mate, spend 2 months grinding this because the payoff is immense. Id advise every one of them to just go to end game asap. But for players like me, its a blast. Im so enjoying the heartbeat of this universe.

[Merie]

Let us know what you think when you finish the 3.3 MSQ. =)

[Nasuuna]

don't be scared of ahk morn >_>

you just need like, 1 heal to survive it if ure group isnt all dead


That said, I appreciate how readable most of the mechanics are. You can go into a new fight and for the most part understand what killed you quickly, or not even fail it in the first place.

[Feanorgandalf]

There is a lot.

- I can join random groups and say I haven't done a place before without getting attitude like i'm wasting someone's time.
- I can die to mechanics on fights I haven't seen before without people in the group losing their minds
- Loot system is far less RNG feeling
- Developers obviously love their game and actually listen to player feedback (except with housing savage)
- Pacing seems less rushed. It took me a long time to level from 1-80 and that had a lot to do with the MSQ and the quality of the story for the most part. There are some weak points especially post ARR MSQ (I did it before the revamp) but like 90% of the story is excellent and deeply engaging.
- This goes back to the first couple points but the community is welcoming and the toxicity levels are almost non existent (person experience, I know there are toxic people in this game)
- Class design feels smooth and despite the odd major overhaul on some they all feel like they have built on their original design.
- The end game content is super fun and doesn't feel like a massive time sink.

[ippollite]

Im gonna say you can die to mechanics without anyone losing their minds because... well i can bres you. After lvl 50, a few other classes can also bres you. Post preatorium the bresses are everywhere... Its cool, but its obviously to let them not design for the lcd. The lcd can wipe as much as they like in the msq. That being said... die to a one shot in ff14, ill just res you. Die to it in wow... im gonna get a teensy bit mad.

[Rootsbum]

Im on a break from WoW, but enjoying FFXIV alot so far.

- Friendly people
- No tradechat where everyone talks shit about a game they play 24/7
- I feel the game does a good job with touring you around the zones and getting to know them
- I dont feel like im missing out if I log out or take a break or that I have a time-limit I need to reach to boost my lottery-ticket
- Being able to make my char look the way I want to a bigger degree

It gives me a more old-school MMORPG-feel in general. Slower

But it does ofc have things I dont like wich WoW does better.
Heck, while leveling I feel like im more of a mail-man than a fighter lol

Also I LOVE that the creators seem to be in touch with the players. Not the "you dont know what you want"-attitude Blizzard seem to have theese days.
Communication, news and hyping is so important to keep the game alive

[ippollite]

Lazer kitty! Ive accidentally finished two raids. Are there more? I dunno. They were super fun. Theres a super saiyan kitty. Im cool with that. I just want my two last drividian highlands flight points.

But even if it makes me run them again... im super okay with it. Theres no random COMPLETE THESE THREE DUNGEONS TO PROCEED nonsense of ARR (2.3-5). And now you're done, please finish the crystal tower quests and all three wings...

(this super annoyed me, to be clear).

[Velnora]

What gear are you talking about? I'm not really sure what point you're making.

My point is only that the gear you earn at max level is not useless, even if you feel the only thing "useful" about it is helping you hit some arbitrary ilevel requirement for a new dungeon or trial. I never said anything about dungeon gear specifically.

If a player is regularly playing, they will have already met that requirement upon the dungeons release. So yeah, it exists. But, who cares? It's of no consequence. The issue I have, is the fact gear has no practical use, outside of raids. An issue, which is only compounded with auto-scaling. The overworld is in dire need of something, to make it feel good about getting more powerful gear.

[Katchii]

If a player is regularly playing, they will have already met that requirement upon the dungeons release. So yeah, it exists. But, who cares? It's of no consequence. The issue I have, is the fact gear has no practical use, outside of raids. An issue, which is only compounded with auto-scaling. The overworld is in dire need of something, to make it feel good about getting more powerful gear.

For players that do not play regularly though, that requirement isn't so mundane.

I see you're point, though.

[Teriz]

Since WoW is dragging its feet giving me a tinker class, I’m playing FFXIV to become a Machinist.

[kasuke06]

honestly? the more weirdly down to earth tone of the story.

Despite the fact that you smack gods around, hand whole armies their own teeth, and basically seeing you is either someone's best or worst day depending on who's ass your boot is finding... you're still just a man/woman. you need rest, you get traumatized by the things that happen along the way, you're not omnipotent. The story works up to that, it's not wow's "oh hey commander/class paragon/champion of the horde or alliance" who happens to be level 10.

And every class has their own story, with actual ties to the main narrative and sometimes even callbacks to it(being the azure dragoon going into heavensward for example.)

I dunno, it just feels like the story has a better flow I guess.

[cuafpr]

tried it again this weekend still in heavensword story, level 55ish dragoon. I do love the slower pace of combat prob due to the longer global CD timer. No DPS meter spam in groups and just a friendly community. There are things I don't like but that's for the other thread.

[Necromantic]

I like the pace of combat and that you’re not required to be a hardcore raider in order to obtain the best weapons in the game.

What I don’t like is the community. It’s far worse than WoW. Thus, I play while remaining silent.

[ippollite]

I like the pace of combat and that you’re not required to be a hardcore raider in order to obtain the best weapons in the game.

What I don’t like is the community. It’s far worse than WoW. Thus, I play while remaining silent.

i... i, well, being someone called out for being overprotective in these very forums... i get that. I also kinda struggle to connect with the ff14 reddit community. If i hit the right note, im showered with upvotes. If i dont... well, its dispiriting. Theres a clear coda of correct opinions (at least on reddit, far lesser so, here: i can say anything i want here and theres no up/down votes so who really cares?). But i get the point. Its not entirely wild.

Anyways, that being said, i want to just come back to the story because its super fun. I dont want to spoil anything so it makes it super hard to talk about PRECISELY because it has ramifications well into the current live game. Im literally at 3.2. Ive just met a character who now calls themselves 'mother'. And im really cross about it. I already know (ive watched Kevin Jordan play through this and somewhat spoiled shb) whats coming. But I still disagree on a strongly emotionally level. Im super invested. Even being spoiled, im super invested in this story. It feels like it sort of matters in another 100 or so hours of gameplay time (currently 246 hours). And it feels like im in for a rollercoaster of emotion just revisiting that character and their relationship to all the characters ive currently pitched my wagon to.

Im so sorry for being so vague. But this is the issue (and its a huge positive). I cant talk freely about the events of heavensward without spoiling the game for players in ARR. And players in shadowbringers cant freely talk about the game without spoiling the experience of players like me still stuck in heavensward. The story really matters. Its not just some plot point to justify a raid. Its an experience in itself. I dont want to get too effusive, but thats a huge deal. That's literally 200+ hours of content to that type of player (on top of the 200 hours theyve already sunk into the game up to this point).

Youre not grinding. You're playing through an adventure. And i know this is also its biggest complaint (its just a sprpg), but its freaking awesome. And if you hate that... just pay for the skip. Id happily buy a skip for my bestie. He'd hate arr and 'grinding' the story. He just wants the end game. Im sure he'd love savage/extreme/ultimate. Even though he uses cheat codes to every game he's ever played... if he has the gear, he wants better gear. Thats his style. My style is to embrace the universe and swim in it. The point is, we both have shit to do (my shit stinks of elderberries though). But once i hit the current expansion (and its honestly by no means clear that this means shadowbringers at the pace im going - im legit gonna spend time with the faries in shb), id happily pay for his boost and bring him up to speed. Because the game is pretty awesome, yo. For a player identifying with the explorer playtype... this game... this universe and lore is gigantic. And there's so many nooks and crannies to explore within it. For a power gamer... i dont get you at a fundamental level, but im pretty sure the game has you covered.

I dont know what else i can say. I guess i need to pop back at 3.3 or 3.4 to reinforce my point, because im almost certain thats all i can and will do. The story will just get MORE immersive. The end game will remain what it is. So i'll see you in a few patches to say exactly the same thing (only with more enthusiasm as pieces fall into place (ive spoiled ~30% of shb so have a general idea where this is going)).

Here's the thing wow players (and i know im coming for you on your absolute weakest grounds - story), but is there anything you would feel (as a responsible player) you need to shut up about in order to let new players enjoy the storyline? Are there any spoilers you'd legitimately shut up about because you'd want players to find them out for themselves? I cant think of a single one. I really cant. The story is a vehicle for the 'gameplay' in wow. The story is literally the point of playing ff14. End game (and grinding) is literally the point of wow. They arent in direct competition, i suppose. Thats kinda cool.

Actually, thats unfair... end game grinding is also the point of ff14. Im just 100+ hours away from it. Bozja sounds like a grind. Because its an mmo. Its just world grinding....? I dunno what ff14 end game actually is. It probably sucks as well.

[infinitemeridian]

I'm only level 30, but so far the world, at least in terms cities and hubs, just feels more immersive and "alive" than wow. There's tons of players walking around in your typical WoW style giant shoulder spikes and dragon weapons, but you also have people dressed like aristocrats, farmers, blacksmiths, magicians, etc.

The inns and town square actually have bustle and noises to them if you turn on the ambience that makes them sound alive. The music is great, and players can supply their own music it seems. Plus you have so many things that feel more mmo-like: housing, fleshed out professions, some (albeit limited) mount customization (naming and bardings), grand companies seem like covenants done right, most content isn't mandatory and gives you some sort of cosmetic reward or access to new activitiy.

The only thing that I don't like that much is the world itself feels not super memorable in terms of area design / graphics, at least out in the fields for ARR. The monsters don't fit the landscape, they don't really do anything except sit there, you can't swim and there's invisible walls everywhere, etc. Also the fact that there's really no class customization at all, no talents, no special items that change how you play like trinkets / sets (at least from what I've read), and the glamour system, while having way more and better options than WoW, seems woefully archaic in terms of storage and acquisition.

[Smallfruitbat]

It took me a while to get used to the slower pace of combat, but I'm enjoying it now.

I love that I can dip in and out as time allows, no pressure to login every day. Joined a dungeon and said Hi, I'm new and the tank told me what to do before every encounter, no rush, rush, rush

[neik]

I haven't started the game yet. But I'm looking forward to something that could potentially reward me if I decide to put in some serious hours into the game.