Wow refugees, what are you enjoying about the game?

[Lane]

I hope this changes at higher levels with "active" abilities off the GCD, just CDs are not really doing it, considering they have 45sec - 1,5 min cooldowns.

It's not much consolation at level 35, but at level 60 DRG feels good. It's not bad at 50, but at 60 you have quite a few oGCD abilities to weave between GCDs and the combat both looks and feels so much more satisfactory.

With the leveling as slow as it is, the story as boring as it is, the only reason I level is because I want to get out of this and it takes forever, especially since the long travel times hinder me even more and that makes me loose interest. I haven't played for several days now and not sure I will play again. I know I haven't seen it all, but if the game literally builds a wall of boredom to get over I am not sure it's worth it.

This is exactly how I felt. It took me about a month to get through ARR because I'd go days at a time not wanting to play through the MSQ. There isn't much I can suggest other than to blitz through it. Teleport everywhere you can (don't worry about gil), skip cutscenes, spam click over dialog, etc. The only parts of the MSQ I'd say you should pay attention to are anything out of Camp Dragonhead in Coerthas, anything from patch 2.4 forward as it sets up the Heavensward expansion, and the Crystal Tower series. Everything else you can, IMO, skip and not be at a loss for it. Then if you find you regret it you can do New Game+ and revisit those quests. I have not found that to be the case for me, especially as most events are recapped later if they were of any importance.

Heavensward and Shadowbringers are excellent. It's a shame ARR is such a huge barrier of entry for so many people.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Some fantasy games have made humans interesting, usually by making them oppressed and/or survivors.

• In WoW, almost every human kingdom has been destroyed out by a genocidal Horde. You are either playing as a survivor or a refugee of a kingdom that was ruined by said Horde (Stormwind or Gilneas, or every other kingdom except Kul'Tiras), or you are playing as the one human kingdom that wasn't wrecked (Kul'Tiras).

• Similarly, in GW2, almost every single human kingdom has been wiped out, with Kryta being a shadow of its former self and Ascalon being reduced to a small group of guerillas. The writers' handling of the Ascalonian remnants is rather infuriating, though. It's sorta them situation as the Maquis from Star Trek where there is victim blaming and the bloodthirsty genocidal conquerors are treated as the ones in the right).

• In Mass Effect, humanity are the new kids on the block but are weaker then everyone else, and got conquered by the Citadel and aren't really given proper representation or respect in the Citadel (despite the Citadel ostensibly being an egalitarian, democratic federation, but is actually more of a USA style empire).

In FFXIV, Highlanders seem to all be Ala Mhigan, or descended from Ala Mhigans, and Ala Mhigo was conquered by the Empire. Unfortunately, you're not given this information during character creation, and only slowly learn this during the 300 hour long story. Also, it seems that there is some sort of hatedom for Ala Mhigans. I never found them annoying.

In FFXIV at least, the races seem fairly mixed, though I think humans are supposed to be the most common race in most areas. They don't really make an issue of racism within the game, which other games often touch on (there are tiny instances of it, but it's hardly a footnote). But nationalism is a huge thing, even among the city states early in the game. National/regional identity seems more important than race in most places.

The point to all of that is, there's a lot of duskwight elezen, Sun miqo'te, lalafell, etc. who are included in the ala mhigo refugee crisis. Though aside from the lalafell, the other races don't live in the cities so we mostly deal with hyur. For some reason there's no prominent lala.

Ultimate point though, even in fantasy settings, they have to make the humans pretty darn interesting for me to like being one. For instance Gilnean worgen situation. THAT was a human race I could enjoy playing. I wish you had full control over what form you fought in.

But yeah, if I'm gonna play a fantasy game, I'm gonna be a fantasy race. I play as humans in pretty much every other game, so I like to deviate when I can.

[ippollite]

I logged in today to put some clear distance between me and rich campbell. Got to play for a couple of hours, which by my reckoning is at least 3 more 7 hour streams.
But alas ive been sidetracked by the great serpent quest chain. Im so glad they put it initially behind an aethyr crystal, id have hated missing it.

[Swnem]

I have gotten over my dislike and given the game a chance. So here is my short review.

1) Looks:
The graphics are great. I love how my character looks and wish WoW was looking this good. Not that I hate WoW's graphics, but they are old and especially on older transmogs you can feel it.

2) Combat:
Speaking from a lvl 35 character atm (more on that in a bit) I picked the Lancer and am now a Dragoon since the last 5 levels. I understand this is not max level, so my judgement is reserved. I like the animations of the attacks, even though a Lancer generally just stabs things they gave it different stabbing animations with some flourishes. It looks good.
Buuut... the combos are getting a bit boring after a while. I got only two atm, one for keeping a dps buff up, the other to stab three times in a row for max damage. There are no procs that would shake things up (for now at least), you go through these 2 sequences again and again and again. Inbetween you push a CD or two. It's very repetetive. The flashyness and good animations help offsetting this but the very very long GCD makes it rather long-winded.
I could easily run through this combo 2 times in the times I can do one, simply because the GCD is holding me back. I am not a fan of that. I hope this changes at higher levels with "active" abilities off the GCD, just CDs are not really doing it, considering they have 45sec - 1,5 min cooldowns. The worst part is when my third stab in the sequence just barely left the enemy alive and I now need to wait either for an auto-attack or the 2,5 seconds until I can finally stab again. It feels like I am artificially slowed down.
WoW has pretty much done away with the set-in-stone rotations in favour of priority lists that react to procs or changing CDs and I think that is giving the combat a more dynamic feeling.
So while the combat looks good in FF, it is just more fun in WoW.

3) Leveling and Story:
Here we hit a snag. The first few levels went fast, just by doing the main story campaign, but it has slowed down now and tbh, it is very boring. The campaign sometimes sends me halve across the world to talk to a person, only for me to immediatedly have to return. It's especially jarring when the locations are not near a teleport area and requires a long walk for nothing but exchanging a few lines. For example, why does this Waking Sands place have to be away from a teleporter when I have to go there every 3 quests? I can't count how many times I had to walk and now finally ride from the nearest teleporter.

The story feels extremely forgettable for now and the characters are not really interesting. It really doesn't help that the english voice-over is horrendous and I don't just mean that it doesn't match the mouth movements, it sounds like the VA are reading lines they neither understand nor care about. Compare that to a Laura Bailey who makes me shiver when she uses her "angry-Jaina" and the difference is brutal. I don't know why this is, did they literally phone in the lines to japan to safe travel expenses? It makes a story that isn't super amazing to begin with even more uninteresting.

I hope dearly this is getting better in the next expansions, but there is the issue: With the leveling as slow as it is, the story as boring as it is, the only reason I level is because I want to get out of this and it takes forever, especially since the long travel times hinder me even more and that makes me loose interest. I haven't played for several days now and not sure I will play again. I know I haven't seen it all, but if the game literally builds a wall of boredom to get over I am not sure it's worth it.

So to summarize: The game looks amazing, but that is pretty much the best about it. The gameplay suffers from a very anti-dynamic system, the story is forgettable and the leveling is artificially slowed down by travel times.

The only reason for me to choose it over WoW would be to have my guild move there and that isn't happening. Despite the graphics, WoW feels much more refined and with more consideration to gameplay. Maybe in a few years FF will be there too.

Combat: The first thing is to get out of the mindset that you are limited to one job. WoW conditioning makes you believe you need to focus on one class to be your main. But, that is not how FF works. You have one class with many specs. It's not your main, it's your first job to gear up (and gear is shared between several jobs). So, if you want variety, that is where you will find it. You don't have to make terrible grinds for each job.

As for dragoon, i love it, but no there are no procs. You will have 2 long combos, some ogc'ds, blood of the dragon window. The animations are great. I love it.
You are judging the combat in a vacuum though. It looks like there isn't much going on when fighting a mob in the wild, especially at lower levels. But, doing the whole rotation while dodging a bunch of deadly mechanics will make you realize that it is difficult as it is, without adding unpredictability to the rotation. This is something people still doing the story won't realize cause it's at max level that you will see how classes and encounters are designed.
With that said, there is a spec based on procs. That is the dancer.

Leveling and story.
There is no leveling. This is just another idea we have from other mmo's. There is no leveling, there is only story. A big interactive movie you will go through and at the end you are max level. As with all movies or books, the first act will be boring as it's establishing the world.
The quests are not meant to be engaging. They are there to be non-intrusive. The story is king. Try to read it all. or at least skint over what is being said so you know what is going on.

I am uncertain what you mean with the teleport. You can teleport to any aetherites you been to at any point by clicking them on the map, in any place you might be.
The voice cast gets changed in Heavensward. Maybe on the post ARR before that? I am uncertain. You will notice the voice actors have changed when you get there.

Oh and i recommend trying other activities once you want a break from the msq. There are a lot of evergreen systems around. There is no need to rush it. There is only gear at max level, there are no grindy systems for character progression. Variety is the spice of life.

[minteK917]

• In Mass Effect, humanity are the new kids on the block but are weaker then everyone else, and got conquered by the Citadel and aren't really given proper representation or respect in the Citadel (despite the Citadel ostensibly being an egalitarian, democratic federation, but is actually more of a USA style empire).

Off topic, but thats not exactly true. Humans are only outmatched by the Turians military, Asari have more advanced stuff then both, but their military is incredibly small and Humans and Turians have huge military by nature. If you talk to most people of other races, Humanity is perceived as a bully in many dialogues. Also how are humans not given proper representation, its given specters and a council seat in only a few decades, it only took humans 8 years to have an embassy on the cidatel lmao one of the biggest one too, other species waiting centuries to still not have seats lol and some not even having embassies. Humans are allowed to just take over all of Batarian space too, despite it being illegal according to council space law. (Humans are pretty much Isreal lmao, thats the only similarity with the citadel space being the US.)

[ippollite]

5.0 rikitaki (lahee!) spoilers minfilia asks, "30 summers? But then, how old are you?" I know its dumb, but just the way the camera slowly pans outwards and lets us digest the sensitive nature of the question (and naiivity of the questioner) is both a tribute to the attention to detail, and the set-piece humor in game. You know someone behind the scenes is turning a gag into a visual gag.
Theres just so much care in the player experience of the game...

[shadowmatrix]

Combat: The first thing is to get out of the mindset that you are limited to one job. WoW conditioning makes you believe you need to focus on one class to be your main. But, that is not how FF works. You have one class with many specs. It's not your main, it's your first job to gear up (and gear is shared between several jobs). So, if you want variety, that is where you will find it. You don't have to make terrible grinds for each job.

Reality check, if you want a new player to be good at a job then they need to focus on that job before wondering off to learn a second one. Same goes for the MSQ since so much content is locked away behind blue quests that only appear once you hit the MSQ triggers.

Also never say a game with level requirements has no leveling, it just makes you look desperate.

[Swnem]

Reality check, if you want a new player to be good at a job then they need to focus on that job before wondering off to learn a second one. Same goes for the MSQ since so much content is locked away behind blue quests that only appear once you hit the MSQ triggers.

Also never say a game with level requirements has no leveling, it just makes you look desperate.

There is no reality check on that. I am talking about end-game. You are talking about leveling.
Guess what? Everyone has to start somewhere. The game allows you to level all jobs on the same character. It's a moot point.
As for player skill, that is something acquired with time and will. I reject your negative view that we should treat everyone like they are incapable. Especially mmo players that are used to how classes are designed and how things work on tab target combat. Honestly, checking a guide is not exactly rocket science, and unless you are doing challenging content, it doesn't even matter if you are playing perfectly.

Wrong! Level requirements are irrelevant cause you get the XP from doing the story. There are story progress requirements. You cannot unlock content without the story progress, even if you have the level and you will have the level if you do the story requirement. Honestly, they could remove levels if they wanted. All they are used for is to unlock new abilities.

You look desperate from where i'm standing. Talking like someone who doesn't play the game. So, there's that. Otherwise you would know those things. I am giving a perspective of someone who plays the game and has all jobs at 80 (blu 70). I don't need you or anyone else to play the game. I am giving advice on how to realize the game is designed and how to play it and break free from the conditioning, because FF isn't 1 on 1 with the mmorpg experience most are used to.

[Katchii]

Wrong! Level requirements are irrelevant cause you get the XP from doing the story. There are story progress requirements. You cannot unlock content without the story progress, even if you have the level and you will have the level if you do the story requirement. Honestly, they could remove levels if they wanted. All they are used for is to unlock new abilities.

This wasn't always the case, and still isn't in current expansions. When ARR, HW, SB were current it was possible to hit a point in the MSQ where you couldn't progress because you hadn't leveled enough, if you had previously stuck specifically to doing just the MSQ. It could have also happened in ShB had I not prepared myself and done several roulettes as I was progressing the MSQ along the way to ensure I got the xp needed to progress to the next MSQ.

It's not a foregone conclusion that if you stick to just the MSQ that you'll automatically gain the required amount of xp to level on-pace with the level requirements for the MSQ. It is now, for previous expansion content, but it's still not automatic for current expansion stuff.

I understand what you're trying to say, regarding leveling and that it's a frame of mind and that you shouldn't focus on leveling and should instead just focus on the journey, but to say that the game has no leveling is flat out wrong, because it HAS levels and level requirements for doing many things.

[Eapoe]

Not a refugee, I play both. There are obviously things I don’t like about the game, but I won’t bring those up in this thread. I also haven’t been playing long, as I have a lvl 33 Rogue and lvl 24 Arcanist (just to put into perspective). That said, things I enjoy:
Carbuncles are freaking adorable.
The spell/ability animations are very nice looking and well animated.
Can play every class/job with 1 character. Also easy to unlock.
The tributes/references to previous games. Seeing Interceptor as a companion pet made my day. Also, what is a Final Fantasy game without Wedge and Biggs?
Load times between zones are low.

Overall, a fun experience and enjoy dabbling with it during my downtime from other things. Don’t think it will kill WoW for me, but it’s a nice way to kill some time gaming.

[Lane]

1) The "Road to 70" buff makes a significant difference.
2) The MSQ experience gains are inconsistent. While leveling without the buff, I was initially able to level 3 jobs via the MSQ until level 30, then I had to drop it down to 2, and by 40 I had to focus solely on my main job and start doing leveling roulettes because I was underleveled for the MSQ.

If you only play one job then you'll likely never encounter being underleveled for the MSQ, but otherwise it happened for me around level 40. The character I play with my SO has the buff and I've been able to switch mains 3x already because the amount of EXP you get is enough to keep probably half a dozen jobs at least current with the MSQ level.

[Saravat]

I hope dearly this is getting better in the next expansions, but there is the issue: With the leveling as slow as it is, the story as boring as it is, the only reason I level is because I want to get out of this and it takes forever, especially since the long travel times hinder me even more and that makes me loose interest. I haven't played for several days now and not sure I will play again. I know I haven't seen it all, but if the game literally builds a wall of boredom to get over I am not sure it's worth it.

So to summarize: The game looks amazing, but that is pretty much the best about it. The gameplay suffers from a very anti-dynamic system, the story is forgettable and the leveling is artificially slowed down by travel times.

The only reason for me to choose it over WoW would be to have my guild move there and that isn't happening. Despite the graphics, WoW feels much more refined and with more consideration to gameplay. Maybe in a few years FF will be there too.

This has been my experience so far (I have a level 56 Red Mage). My guild and I left WoW - the lawsuit was the straw that broke the camel's back, but that's not the topic of this thread. I have been with my raiding guild for ten years now, and it's a wonderful group of players that has always managed to get our Ahead of the Curve achievements while maintaining a very friendly environment. And it's breaking my heart because as much as I want to continue gaming with them, I don't think I'll make it long-term in FFXIV.

I love that you can have all jobs on one character. And I will say that I LOVE the community, which is leaps and bounds better than the largely toxic environment outside of my guild in WoW. But that's all I love.

Combat just isn't smooth. The combos are sort of awkward and not very interesting. The crafting system seems convoluted and its overall usefulness is unclear. I could handle that if the rest of the game pulled me in. However, I just can't take it any more. I want to play my character and engage with the world, not sit and read text and watch cutscenes. I'm a serious reader who loves the fantasy genre. And I really enjoy following lore and story in games. But for whatever reasons, FFXIV has entirely lost me in terms of story. I stopped caring about it very quickly, and escape/click through almost everything. Every now and then I try to pick up the story thread again in the hope that it will engage me. But nope.

Most of my guildies have at least some prior experience with FFXIV, so maybe the fact that they have a previous connection to the game is helping them engage with it now. I don't know or really understand why, but even though I really WANTED to like this game enough to stick with it, it isn't happening.

I hope that Blizzard will respond to the current crisis by implementing significant changes in both the game and the overall company setting, because I really do miss the WoW I once loved to play. But I'm sure not holding my breath in the meantime; it'd take a miracle for those changes to happen. In the meantime, I think I am going to play GW2. It just kills me that I won't be joining my guild in FFXIV but the game has not been a good fit for me.

[Fkiolaris]

I got to say, a feature that I have been enjoying immensely for the past week is the Squadron. IMO this is what the mission table should have been in WoW and what purpose followers should have had (perhaps in combination with the chocobo battle mount, or whatever it is). Either way, it's great to have npcs as an option to help both in actual dungeons and the outdoors, plus the XP from the dungeons with your squadron is insane pre lvl 40.

[Swnem]

This wasn't always the case, and still isn't in current expansions. When ARR, HW, SB were current it was possible to hit a point in the MSQ where you couldn't progress because you hadn't leveled enough, if you had previously stuck specifically to doing just the MSQ. It could have also happened in ShB had I not prepared myself and done several roulettes as I was progressing the MSQ along the way to ensure I got the xp needed to progress to the next MSQ.

It's not a foregone conclusion that if you stick to just the MSQ that you'll automatically gain the required amount of xp to level on-pace with the level requirements for the MSQ. It is now, for previous expansion content, but it's still not automatic for current expansion stuff.

I understand what you're trying to say, regarding leveling and that it's a frame of mind and that you shouldn't focus on leveling and should instead just focus on the journey, but to say that the game has no leveling is flat out wrong, because it HAS levels and level requirements for doing many things.

I mean, sprouts get an xp buff and new servers do too. The missing xp can be done by simply doing a random dungeon here and there, which peeps probably will do just to get the tomes for the gear.
Alright, i can concede that it is not strictly just the story depending on the buffs you got. But, there is no need to stress about it too much. Just some roulettes on the way will smooth any edges and allow you to gear up.

But, the point is that the whole experience is about the story and that is where the focus went, rather than say a bunch of barely relevant quests to do in a hub before you can move on or a dungeon spam. It's a different design as we know. I am trying to help people realise that.

[ippollite]

Jesus wept soken... im running Qitana revel, and the bgm is just a lot to take in. I had a 'moment' the other day when lahee tripped my emotions (i wasnt memeing, it was literally overwhelming). Then it became funny. Then it became a quest challenge to see if i could get to the end of the song whilst questing without triggering the combat music. And now its variations on a theme with literally ZERO of the original rhythm and instrumentation. I keep hearing the theme, then catching myself and realising i'm hearing the theme'. Its so... genuinely, astonishing. The thought and care that goes into every moment of this game...

[Katchii]

I mean, sprouts get an xp buff and new servers do too. The missing xp can be done by simply doing a random dungeon here and there, which peeps probably will do just to get the tomes for the gear.

Oh agreed, it's not difficult to stay leveled and on-pace with the MSQ, even if the MSQ itself doesn't give you ALL the xp you need for it. Sprouts only get an xp buff of +20% up to level 20, and only when partied with a mentor. The new/preferred server buff is not guaranteed either, unless you are specifically looking for that kind of server, which I would guess a completely fresh FFXIV player wouldn't know to look for.

Alright, i can concede that it is not strictly just the story depending on the buffs you got. But, there is no need to stress about it too much. Just some roulettes on the way will smooth any edges and allow you to gear up.

Was never saying it's something to worry about or stress over, only that levels DO exist and CAN be a barrier for entry in some cases. It will happen organically as you play the game so there's nothing to worry about, but it's still there.

But, the point is that the whole experience is about the story and that is where the focus went, rather than say a bunch of barely relevant quests to do in a hub before you can move on or a dungeon spam. It's a different design as we know. I am trying to help people realize that.

I totally get what you're saying, I don't disagree with the sentiment, but saying there is no leveling is not the right way to express it as it's a bit misleading. Playing just the MSQ for the majority of the game is fine, as there's enough xp coming from it to keep you on-pace (if not over leveled). But regardless, just playing the game, doing an odd FATE here and there, running a dungeon roulette, a couple interesting side quests...will absolutely ensure you're on level with the MSQ. You don't HAVE to be tunnel visioned on the MSQ and the game is, IMO, a MUCH better experience when you're seeing and doing all that it offers along the way. There's really no point in saving the side quests for alt jobs as the xp is pitiful, so if you see one and feel like doing it....go do it!

[Morae]

While I haven't completed the msq yet and things might change afterwards, I have liked the fact that I'm not presured to do anything at all. Someone might just steamroll through msq, but personally I have taken my time.

I have played many jobs.
Kept all crafting to roughly main job level.
(Best thing for these two is that all of that is on one character)
Spent too much time at potd and hoh.
Collecting glamors.
Random side stuff like chocobo racing and other stuff at gold saucer.
Edit: Forgot about the story! The story is good! I like it!
...

In fact, there is still so much to do that when I start playing, I can think "what do i want to do now". That does not happen in wow. At best there it is "what do I need to do today".

The feel is simply different. I'm still waiting to see how it feels like when I run out of content to do. To my understanding ff devs are on the opinion it is fine to complete stuff and then quit until new stuff is in? In comparison wow tries to lock you in with gating and long grinds.

[Cthulhu 2020]

1) The "Road to 70" buff makes a significant difference.
2) The MSQ experience gains are inconsistent. While leveling without the buff, I was initially able to level 3 jobs via the MSQ until level 30, then I had to drop it down to 2, and by 40 I had to focus solely on my main job and start doing leveling roulettes because I was underleveled for the MSQ.

If you only play one job then you'll likely never encounter being underleveled for the MSQ, but otherwise it happened for me around level 40. The character I play with my SO has the buff and I've been able to switch mains 3x already because the amount of EXP you get is enough to keep probably half a dozen jobs at least current with the MSQ level.

Yep, road to 70 is overkill now. But it was implemented before they buffed MSQ exp gains. Before that, if you didn't roll on a server with road to 70 then you'd have to do some grinding to keep up with the MSQ, or you'd hit a level wall and go grind some. On servers with road to 70, you could just do the MSQ. Now that they've buffed MSQ exp so that you don't ever need to grind no matter what, and only do story, road to 70 is frankly just a ridiculous way to level multiple classes, including your crafters and gatherers.

Heed me that if you want to level crafters and gatherers, do it with that road to 70 buff. It will save you a lot of grinding and resources.

[Lane]

Heed me that if you want to level crafters and gatherers, do it with that road to 70 buff. It will save you a lot of grinding and resources.

Maybe a dumb question, but can you turn in MSQ while in a gather/crafter job?

[Vasilisa]

Maybe a dumb question, but can you turn in MSQ while in a gather/crafter job?

Nope, you can't.