Aegwynn (as Guardian) vs. Queen Azshara - Who would most likely win in a real battle?

[baskev]

I don't think Aegwynn could beat Archimonde honestly. Archimonde has more experience than Azshara and Aegwynn combined and was the best of the Eredar Mage (Pre-Corruption).

Not really sure either. But my whole point has been. we do not know.

The 2 fights we know of is
aegwynn vs avatar
demon lord vs azshara

Neither is a real clear how strong they are. And for instance, azshara use the well to power her abilitys, and aegwynn had her staffs. So how powerfull where they really?

For me its still aegwynn just because he though her a thread to the legion invasion and she was able to fight the avatar ( yes less powerfull etc, but still the avatar of a titan).

So i think we ( or other people) could discuss this until the end off time. But until blizzards says 1 or the other. Or they give them a common enemy they fought or both a person they fought that fought the 3th person. we will not know.

[TheFirstOnes]

Aegwynn's power didn't come from the Staff alone, the fuck?

Either way, Aegwynn and Azshara are tough cookies, but at the end of the day, it's a little hard to assume who's stronger. Aegwynn has like 1 actual feat (Plus a random ass aspect feat nobody cares about), on god.

[Shaqthefat]

Not really sure either. But my whole point has been. we do not know.

The 2 fights we know of is
aegwynn vs avatar
demon lord vs azshara

Neither is a real clear how strong they are. And for instance, azshara use the well to power her abilitys, and aegwynn had her staffs. So how powerfull where they really?

For me its still aegwynn just because he though her a thread to the legion invasion and she was able to fight the avatar ( yes less powerfull etc, but still the avatar of a titan).

So i think we ( or other people) could discuss this until the end off time. But until blizzards says 1 or the other. Or they give them a common enemy they fought or both a person they fought that fought the 3th person. we will not know.

I think Aegwynn is more powerful due to being a guardian and the many other external sources that she found to be able to expand her power. All this likely makes her more stronger or at least close to Azshara in power.

And once again, Azshara wasn't seen as a threat because of her power. She was on the Legion's side from the start wheras Aegwynns entire purpose was to stop the Burning Legion. If Azshara saw the Legion as a threat to her rule, and not something to expand her rule, Sargeras would've seen her as a threat.

[Cazze]

I don't think that's true anymore.

the quest says Lei Shen got his power from his throne or whatnot and not from himself but we learned from Retchronicles that the power came from Lei Shen himself and not from the throne or item.

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probably the smartest decision of your life.

What quest? Can you link it? Because lei shen powering the throne, nay the whole palace, has always been the case. Have you done his boss fight? You would have noticed.

He got his powers from ra-den, not from the throne, he is not lk.

[iamthedevil]

I bet if there ever is another Guardian we will learn that they were so powerful not only because of being empowered by the others in the council, but Azeroth herself was empowering the Guardian as a bodyguard. It would makes sense.

[loras]

Aegwynn - She is the most powerful Guardian of Tirisfal, serving in her role for a thousand years - she fought and almost defeated Sargeras's manifestation not once but twice - the second time was when she was without any Guardian abilities, and she was still apparently single-handedly winning her fight with Medivh, being directly helped by Sargeras himself, at Karazhan. She was able to easily elude the Kirin Tor for decades, as well as the best of their Tirisgarde. She was the one who sealed the Tomb of Sargeras, and was able to subdue Aluneth, which she used to create Karazhan, as well as wielding Atiesh, Greatstaff of the Guardian.

Azshara - Arguably the most powerful and renowned night elf ever to live. Greatest of the Highborne rulers. She has been described as the most powerful sorceress in existence - to have ever lived. Destroyed Pillar of Creation easily (Tidestone of Golganneth). During the War of the Ancients, Mannoroth realized she was actually far stronger than he was - that only Archimonde and Sargeras provided superior to her, and this was 10,000 years ago, when she was much less experienced. Aluneth stated that naga wielded the arcane without finesse - but there was a time Azshara's people apparently "had the potential to rival the titans". Although Azshara today is without the Well of Eternity - she does have access to considerable Void abilities along with her arcane ones.

Who would most likely win in a real fight if Aegwynn, when she was serving as Guardian of Tirisfal, had fought Azshara, in some random location where neither of them have the advantage, without any assistance?

Present day Azshara without the well of eternity would lose, i think. But Aszhara with that power? I think she would wipe the floor with Aegwynn.

I mean there is a reason she was allowed her delusion of being Sargeras' bride by the Legion.

[TheFirstOnes]

Present day Azshara without the well of eternity would lose, i think. But Aszhara with that power? I think she would wipe the floor with Aegwynn.

I mean there is a reason she was allowed her delusion of being Sargeras' bride by the Legion.

Except that delusion was just that: A delusion. She never truly knew Sargeras' power, and Sargeras himself gave no shits about her.

[loras]

Except that delusion was just that: A delusion. She never truly knew Sargeras' power, and Sargeras himself gave no shits about her.

I know, that is what i said as well, though juxtaposed next to the fact that most demons played along with her delusion. A fact that implies that even to some of the most powerful demons in existence Azshara provided plenty of reason not to disturb her.

[TheFirstOnes]

I know, that is what i said as well, though juxtaposed next to the fact that most demons played along with her delusion. A fact that implies that even to some of the most powerful demons in existence Azshara provided plenty of reason not to disturb her.

They probably only played along with it to keep her trust in favor so that she may enact the ritual. Also a clear reminder than Azshara and N'Zoth were scared to shit of Zovaal, while with Sargeras, they didn't give two shits (Probably because of the fact that N'Zoth knew what was truly going on, cosmic wise at least).

[loras]

They probably only played along with it to keep her trust in favor so that she may enact the ritual. Also a clear reminder than Azshara and N'Zoth were scared to shit of Zovaal, while with Sargeras, they didn't give two shits (Probably because of the fact that N'Zoth knew what was truly going on, cosmic wise at least).

Why would they be scared of Zovaal? Both willingly and knowingly helped Sylvanas, hell Azshara stated as much during her meeting with Sylvanas, and N'zoth later shows us this in a vision.

And the fact that they needed her to willingly perform that ritual is exactly what i'm getting at; the most powerful demons in existence needed Azshara to willingly perform the ritual.

[TheFirstOnes]

Why would they be scared of Zovaal? Both willingly and knowingly helped Sylvanas, hell Azshara stated as much during her meeting with Sylvanas, and N'zoth later shows us this in a vision.

And the fact that they needed her to willingly perform that ritual is exactly what i'm getting at; the most powerful demons in existence needed Azshara to willingly perform the ritual.

Azshara and Sylvanas only wanted to kill N'Zoth and get him out of the way. Hell, Azshara literally says after their chat "Traitorous little Banshee. Do you think me so blind as to not see the Darkness you seek to unleash?!", and N'Zoth's just there like "I can save your bruh. Just lemme claim your Titan and your...well...everything lol". Must I mention the Il'gynoth and Alleria whispers?

"the most powerful demons in existence needed Azshara to willingly perform the ritual." Well yeah, cause she was still powerful, even without the Well. And her being directly linked to it in a way only really helped the Demons out. They still likely didn't believe she would be his "wife" or shit like that, since Titans usually don't give two shits about relationships.

[loras]

Azshara and Sylvanas only wanted to kill N'Zoth and get him out of the way. Hell, Azshara literally says after their chat "Traitorous little Banshee. Do you think me so blind as to not see the Darkness you seek to unleash?!", and N'Zoth's just there like "I can save your bruh. Just lemme claim your Titan and your...well...everything lol". Must I mention the Il'gynoth and Alleria whispers?

"the most powerful demons in existence needed Azshara to willingly perform the ritual." Well yeah, cause she was still powerful, even without the Well. And her being directly linked to it in a way only really helped the Demons out. They still likely didn't believe she would be his "wife" or shit like that, since Titans usually don't give two shits about relationships.

Dude, Azshara is literally bargaining for the key to umleash N'zoth there, as such there is no reason to assume that the darkness she is referring to there is N'zoth; she literally tells Sylvanas that she sees what she is doing with Zovaal; she literally does not care enough about Zovaal to stop her attempt to kill N'zoth.

And that's exactly the point, Il'gynoth too sees all this shit unfolding and nonetheless they help Sylvanas along her merry way because they do not care.
Besides the whispers are notoriously manipulative; if one starts to fall to them they do not differ from the fallen's own thoughts anymore. In the case of Alleria this means that all they can do is to tell her whatever, since they already know she will not heed them.

Additionally the void has never had trouble manipulating or corrupting death, undead or death-touched creatures either, and happily borrows its power to plenty of death aligned creatures ( https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Ravaging_Ghoul ).

Hell the Twilight's hammer employs plenty of unnamed forsaken and even one in a leadership role, demonstrating the susceptibility of even the undead to the whispers of the void ( https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Domina ).
Arguably the only thing "protecting" scourge creatures from the whispers was that their mind was already being occupied by the Lich King's dominance.

And i never said that they believed that, quite the opposite in fact, i said they were forced to play along with Aszhara's delusion due to how powerful she was with the well. "Playing along" is not believing.

[TheFirstOnes]

"as such there is no reason to assume that the darkness she is referring to there is N'zoth"

Hm? I never made that claim.

"And that's exactly the point, Il'gynoth too sees all this shit unfolding and nonetheless they help Sylvanas along her merry way because they do not care." They probably don't care cause they know we exist and can just beat him anyway. They see all possibilities, afterall

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"And i never said that they believed that, quite the opposite in fact, i said they were forced to play along with Aszhara's delusion due to how powerful she was with the well. "Playing along" is not believing."

So we're in agreement? Got it.

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"Arguably the only thing "protecting" scourge creatures from the whispers was that their mind was already being occupied by the Lich King's dominance."

And guess what power the LK possesses.

[Magical Mudcrab]

I know, that is what i said as well, though juxtaposed next to the fact that most demons played along with her delusion. A fact that implies that even to some of the most powerful demons in existence Azshara provided plenty of reason not to disturb her.

Sure, but their reason to not disturb her was borne of their pragmatism, not because she was a concern for them. She was a pawn, which is a running theme of mortals dealing with cosmic powers. She was the one who would help open the door for Sargeras and her life and that of her people were forfeit if it would allow the portal to remain open.

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And guess what power the LK possesses.

Whatever magic the LK decides to use, the man needs a lozenge.

[TheFirstOnes]

Sure, but their reason to not disturb her was borne of their pragmatism, not because she was a concern for them. She was a pawn, which is a running theme of mortals dealing with cosmic powers. She was the one who would help open the door for Sargeras and her life and that of her people were forfeit if it would allow the portal to remain open.

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Whatever magic the LK decides to use, the man needs a lozenge.

True. Domination be like that sometimes.

[loras]

Sure, but their reason to not disturb her was borne of their pragmatism, not because she was a concern for them. She was a pawn, which is a running theme of mortals dealing with cosmic powers. She was the one who would help open the door for Sargeras and her life and that of her people were forfeit if it would allow the portal to remain open.

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Whatever magic the LK decides to use, the man needs a lozenge.

The way she was treated was not very pawn-like was what i was getting at. Of course there were clear ulterior motives, but if she were weak they would not have bothered with all the hassle.

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"as such there is no reason to assume that the darkness she is referring to there is N'zoth"

Hm? I never made that claim.

"And that's exactly the point, Il'gynoth too sees all this shit unfolding and nonetheless they help Sylvanas along her merry way because they do not care." They probably don't care cause they know we exist and can just beat him anyway. They see all possibilities, afterall

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"And i never said that they believed that, quite the opposite in fact, i said they were forced to play along with Aszhara's delusion due to how powerful she was with the well. "Playing along" is not believing."

So we're in agreement? Got it.

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"Arguably the only thing "protecting" scourge creatures from the whispers was that their mind was already being occupied by the Lich King's dominance."

And guess what power the LK possesses.

Then that exchange proves what i said earlier very clearly: Aszhara straight up told Sylvanas to her face she saw what she was doing with Zovaal, yet did not care enough to alter her world-shaking plot in the slightest or withdraw her part of the bargain from Sylvanas. Not exactly a sign of fear or even respect for Zovaal.

Exactly.

Yes, apparantly, i'm unsure where the miscommunication occured. Oh well.

Exactly, but no more as he is gone for now.
The undead, meanwhile, are thus left susceptible to the whispers even more, illustrating that death's power is not, in itself, a foil to void magic.

[TheFirstOnes]

She sounded terrified. And the Void's called Death "The Enemy of All".

Seems more like plot inconvenience to me.

[baskev]

I think Aegwynn is more powerful due to being a guardian and the many other external sources that she found to be able to expand her power. All this likely makes her more stronger or at least close to Azshara in power.

And once again, Azshara wasn't seen as a threat because of her power. She was on the Legion's side from the start wheras Aegwynns entire purpose was to stop the Burning Legion. If Azshara saw the Legion as a threat to her rule, and not something to expand her rule, Sargeras would've seen her as a threat.

Yes, but also not a big enough pawn or valued ally. Because he dropped her right after that.

But it all depends if we ever find something to compare them by. And the fact that most of these magic users like them, or jaina or screamqueen etc all get powerup by several sources in their lives. And a other problem is blizzard and their ret cons .


A better who is stronger would be varian vs garrosh i think :P.

[Pheraz]

Except that delusion was just that: A delusion. She never truly knew Sargeras' power, and Sargeras himself gave no shits about her.

This. She just fought a thought of Sargereas, who can actually cut planets in half.

Jaina is maybe the most powerful mage right now on Azeroth and she calls Azshara the most powerful mage this world has ever seen. Sooooo, def. Azshara

[OwenBurton]

This. She just fought a thought of Sargereas, who can actually cut planets in half.

Jaina is maybe the most powerful mage right now on Azeroth and she calls Azshara the most powerful mage this world has ever seen. Sooooo, def. Azshara

But she still almost beat Sargeras at Karazhan, even without her Guardian abilities. People forget that most arcane mages on Azeroth are likely stronger than those elsewhere - Azeroth is the last titan, and even potentially stronger than Sargeras. He is a corrupted titan - but he does not have infinite power. He is not omniscient nor invulnerable. I doubt casually destroying hundreds of planets within minutes is something within his capabilities, or else the Legion would have been obsolete long ago. Perhaps even the naaru could possibly match him in power if they really tried to fight him. If Broxigar was able to wound Sargeras, perhaps the most powerful mages in existence could also harm or weaken him.